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The pros and cons of armed guards in schools.

This is a discussion on The pros and cons of armed guards in schools. within the Politics forums, part of the US Discussion category; Quote: Originally Posted by AmyNation Disclaimer, the is KG's idea. I thought it was interesting and warrants a discussion, but she doesn't really want to ...


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View Poll Results: Armed Guards?
Great idea! 5 38.46%
It's a start but we need to do more 1 7.69%
A chicken in every pot, a gun in every hand! 1 7.69%
Bad idea! 3 23.08%
Ban guns! 1 7.69%
Other 2 15.38%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2012, 09:32 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by AmyNation View Post
Disclaimer, the is KG's idea. I thought it was interesting and warrants a discussion, but she doesn't really want to talk about it.

Poll to follow.


I figure it will cost around 7-8 billion a year( thats really the low end) to keep and maintain armed guards in K-12 public schools.

The risks that ive so far thought of are

the guard being disarmed and someone using his gun to shoot up the school
an accident with the guards gun
an over zealous guard shooting a student during an altercation

The pro being that armed guards will be in the school at all times and able to defend the students from the kind of attack we have seen.

The questions are
Good idea/bad idea and why
Should it be a ferdeal or state issue
Who should pay for it
I tried calculating the cost of having two police officers in every school. I figured somewhere in the range of $13 billion per year. How many kids are killed in schools every year? If we estimate the number to be 100, which I believe is high, then the cost equates to $130 million per saved life, if we stop the killings completely.

Now lets look at some problems with this. If I'm a raging lunatic hell bent on killing as many kids and teachers as possible, and I know there are a couple of cops hanging out eating donuts and drinking coffee all day long, I will plan to first take out the two cops. That is first on my agenda; kill the cops or guards and confiscate their guns. Now I can go on my rampage and kill at will. As you can see, having armed guards or police in the schools isn't a full guarantee that we could avoid a mass killing like Sandy Hook or Columbine or any other school shooting.

So what are some better alternatives? As much as I'm not crazy about arming teachers, I think we could train a number of willing teachers in each school to have access to some high powered weapons for situations such as this. Not all teachers would be capable or should be asked to be involved, but most every school has enough teachers or administrators who could have access to the right weapons to at least attempt to thwart such an attack. Also, if the shooter was clueless as to who the teachers were that might be armed, it gives them less of an advantage.

Looking at the events at Sandy Hook, the principal lunged at the shooter trying to take him down. She was killed because she had nothing to defend herself with or to attack with, yet she went after him with no weapon. Just imagine if she had had a gun and was trained. Even if the shooter was wearing a vest, a few good shots would have knocked him down and he could have been detained. I'm not a big fan of having guns in our schools, but I think if we did it the right way, it might be workable. I also think it would be much less costly and probably more effective than having armed guards in every school.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2012, 09:35 PM
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yeah, the world needs more mall cops

giving them guns is just the cherry on top
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2012, 09:40 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Vel View Post
We have one in Bedford Co., Tn also
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2012, 09:53 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by del View Post
yeah, the world needs more mall cops

giving them guns is just the cherry on top
Mall cops? Our SRO's are deputies who happen to be assigned to a school.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:54 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Vel View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by del View Post
yeah, the world needs more mall cops

giving them guns is just the cherry on top
Mall cops? Our SRO's are deputies who happen to be assigned to a school.
i wasn't talking about your sros. i was talking about armed guards
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 12-19-2012, 09:03 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Wiseacre View Post
There's a school district in north Texas that has some teachers and staff members carrying concealed weapons in school, along with cameras and special locks. I was just idly wondering if you'd want your kids protected by teachers that can shoot back. Might be the easiest and most cost effective way to improve student security.


Taking a Logical Step to Protect Students, a Texas School District Allows Armed Teachers International Liberty
I wouldnt.

There's no way I would feel safe sending my baby to 1st grade knowing the teacher has a .45 under her skirt.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:07 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by auditor0007 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by AmyNation View Post
Disclaimer, the is KG's idea. I thought it was interesting and warrants a discussion, but she doesn't really want to talk about it.

Poll to follow.


I figure it will cost around 7-8 billion a year( thats really the low end) to keep and maintain armed guards in K-12 public schools.

The risks that ive so far thought of are

the guard being disarmed and someone using his gun to shoot up the school
an accident with the guards gun
an over zealous guard shooting a student during an altercation

The pro being that armed guards will be in the school at all times and able to defend the students from the kind of attack we have seen.

The questions are
Good idea/bad idea and why
Should it be a ferdeal or state issue
Who should pay for it
I tried calculating the cost of having two police officers in every school. I figured somewhere in the range of $13 billion per year. How many kids are killed in schools every year? If we estimate the number to be 100, which I believe is high, then the cost equates to $130 million per saved life, if we stop the killings completely.

Now lets look at some problems with this. If I'm a raging lunatic hell bent on killing as many kids and teachers as possible, and I know there are a couple of cops hanging out eating donuts and drinking coffee all day long, I will plan to first take out the two cops. That is first on my agenda; kill the cops or guards and confiscate their guns. Now I can go on my rampage and kill at will. As you can see, having armed guards or police in the schools isn't a full guarantee that we could avoid a mass killing like Sandy Hook or Columbine or any other school shooting.

So what are some better alternatives? As much as I'm not crazy about arming teachers, I think we could train a number of willing teachers in each school to have access to some high powered weapons for situations such as this. Not all teachers would be capable or should be asked to be involved, but most every school has enough teachers or administrators who could have access to the right weapons to at least attempt to thwart such an attack. Also, if the shooter was clueless as to who the teachers were that might be armed, it gives them less of an advantage.

Looking at the events at Sandy Hook, the principal lunged at the shooter trying to take him down. She was killed because she had nothing to defend herself with or to attack with, yet she went after him with no weapon. Just imagine if she had had a gun and was trained. Even if the shooter was wearing a vest, a few good shots would have knocked him down and he could have been detained. I'm not a big fan of having guns in our schools, but I think if we did it the right way, it might be workable. I also think it would be much less costly and probably more effective than having armed guards in every school.
I would be more open to something like this. A gun, secured in a safe in the office or teachers lounge, and a few trusted teachers trained on it.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:19 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Big Black Dog View Post
Next thing you know, on the list of required school supplies prior to the beginning of the school year, we will see "bullet-proof vest" listed.
Just saw a news story about a bullet proof backpack. They've sold more in the past week than they usually sell in more than a month.

Arming teachers is utterly ridiculous and would be no more effective than carrying guns has been among the populace. We have more guns than ever before but the shootings continue.

From the moment the shooter became known or appeared in the classroom, the teacher would have get the key, unlock the closet, get a second key, the gun out of a locked box, get the ammo, load the gun, move the children out of the line of fire and then, finally, shoot at an intruder.

If people who currently carry guns have not been able to shoot back, why would we believe a teacher could do what others can't? Why haven't civilian gun nuts shot back at any of the mass killers? (Yes, I did post that I had found ONE example of a civilian shooting back. ONE.)

What kind of gun would you want the teacher to have access to? What about liability insurance?

So many reasons why this is a stupid idea and all of them explain exactly why idiot Rick Perry is all set to go with it. I won't be surprised if other mentally deficient R governors jump right on this bandwagon.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 12-19-2012, 09:21 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by AmyNation View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by auditor0007 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by AmyNation View Post
Disclaimer, the is KG's idea. I thought it was interesting and warrants a discussion, but she doesn't really want to talk about it.

Poll to follow.


I figure it will cost around 7-8 billion a year( thats really the low end) to keep and maintain armed guards in K-12 public schools.

The risks that ive so far thought of are

the guard being disarmed and someone using his gun to shoot up the school
an accident with the guards gun
an over zealous guard shooting a student during an altercation

The pro being that armed guards will be in the school at all times and able to defend the students from the kind of attack we have seen.

The questions are
Good idea/bad idea and why
Should it be a ferdeal or state issue
Who should pay for it
I tried calculating the cost of having two police officers in every school. I figured somewhere in the range of $13 billion per year. How many kids are killed in schools every year? If we estimate the number to be 100, which I believe is high, then the cost equates to $130 million per saved life, if we stop the killings completely.

Now lets look at some problems with this. If I'm a raging lunatic hell bent on killing as many kids and teachers as possible, and I know there are a couple of cops hanging out eating donuts and drinking coffee all day long, I will plan to first take out the two cops. That is first on my agenda; kill the cops or guards and confiscate their guns. Now I can go on my rampage and kill at will. As you can see, having armed guards or police in the schools isn't a full guarantee that we could avoid a mass killing like Sandy Hook or Columbine or any other school shooting.

So what are some better alternatives? As much as I'm not crazy about arming teachers, I think we could train a number of willing teachers in each school to have access to some high powered weapons for situations such as this. Not all teachers would be capable or should be asked to be involved, but most every school has enough teachers or administrators who could have access to the right weapons to at least attempt to thwart such an attack. Also, if the shooter was clueless as to who the teachers were that might be armed, it gives them less of an advantage.

Looking at the events at Sandy Hook, the principal lunged at the shooter trying to take him down. She was killed because she had nothing to defend herself with or to attack with, yet she went after him with no weapon. Just imagine if she had had a gun and was trained. Even if the shooter was wearing a vest, a few good shots would have knocked him down and he could have been detained. I'm not a big fan of having guns in our schools, but I think if we did it the right way, it might be workable. I also think it would be much less costly and probably more effective than having armed guards in every school.
I would be more open to something like this. A gun, secured in a safe in the office or teachers lounge, and a few trusted teachers trained on it.
How would the school guarantee that one or more of those teachers would be in the same place as the gun at the very moment a shooter arrived at the school?
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 12-19-2012, 09:24 AM
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A monumentally bad idea.

This is the type of society conservatives are looking for..wild west for everyone!

No thanks.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:28 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Sallow View Post
A monumentally bad idea.

This is the type of society conservatives are looking for..wild west for everyone!

No thanks.
This is indeed a reactive and hysterical reaction. After the theater shooting, the rw's were screeching for armed guards every theater.

Surely, even the gun nutters know this would make the school/theater/mall/church/restaurant a hell of a lot more unsafe than they currently are.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:33 AM
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On the news just now, a 6th grader arrested for taking a gun to school for "protection".

Anybody wanna bet his parents are hysterical rw gun nuts?
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:37 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by 9thIDdoc View Post
The ones with PTSD or without?
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:39 AM
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Sure nuff - the 6th grader was "encouraged by his parents to use the gun for protection".

The nutters really do need to GET A GRIP.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:46 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by luddly.neddite View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by AmyNation View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by auditor0007 View Post

I tried calculating the cost of having two police officers in every school. I figured somewhere in the range of $13 billion per year. How many kids are killed in schools every year? If we estimate the number to be 100, which I believe is high, then the cost equates to $130 million per saved life, if we stop the killings completely.

Now lets look at some problems with this. If I'm a raging lunatic hell bent on killing as many kids and teachers as possible, and I know there are a couple of cops hanging out eating donuts and drinking coffee all day long, I will plan to first take out the two cops. That is first on my agenda; kill the cops or guards and confiscate their guns. Now I can go on my rampage and kill at will. As you can see, having armed guards or police in the schools isn't a full guarantee that we could avoid a mass killing like Sandy Hook or Columbine or any other school shooting.

So what are some better alternatives? As much as I'm not crazy about arming teachers, I think we could train a number of willing teachers in each school to have access to some high powered weapons for situations such as this. Not all teachers would be capable or should be asked to be involved, but most every school has enough teachers or administrators who could have access to the right weapons to at least attempt to thwart such an attack. Also, if the shooter was clueless as to who the teachers were that might be armed, it gives them less of an advantage.

Looking at the events at Sandy Hook, the principal lunged at the shooter trying to take him down. She was killed because she had nothing to defend herself with or to attack with, yet she went after him with no weapon. Just imagine if she had had a gun and was trained. Even if the shooter was wearing a vest, a few good shots would have knocked him down and he could have been detained. I'm not a big fan of having guns in our schools, but I think if we did it the right way, it might be workable. I also think it would be much less costly and probably more effective than having armed guards in every school.
I would be more open to something like this. A gun, secured in a safe in the office or teachers lounge, and a few trusted teachers trained on it.
How would the school guarantee that one or more of those teachers would be in the same place as the gun at the very moment a shooter arrived at the school?
This is not a Hollywood movie. There are no perfect solutions, no guarantees to this problem. We can only take steps that may save lives.

The teachers at sandy hook tried to stop the shooter, but had no way to fight back. He used the guns at his disposal to blast away the locked door that stood between him and those children.

That is why I say it's not just one thing we need to do. Changing the set up of schools, changing the exit doors, and yes, maybe keeping a loaded gun on the premise can help.
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