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Do you feel we should end Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid?

This is a discussion on Do you feel we should end Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid? within the Politics forums, part of the US Discussion category; Quote: Originally Posted by DontBeStupid Quote: Originally Posted by M14 Shooter Quote: Originally Posted by DontBeStupid Right. With this little gem. But, you see, you ...


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  #136 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2012, 02:39 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by DontBeStupid View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by M14 Shooter View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by DontBeStupid View Post
Right. With this little gem.


But, you see, you didn't address my concern. Because if a generation of retirees get their retirement accounts wiped out in a stock market crash, they will either retire with no money (not good for the economy) or they won't retire until later, which will keep younger workers from getting jobs (not good for the economy).
Again: You are responsible for you. Whatever choices you may have made, and whatever the results of those choices, they were -your- choices. If your choices led you to retiring later or with less money, the oly person responsible for that is you, and you have no right to expect others to make up for that.

And so, rather than force -other- people into a condition of involuntary servitude to make up for poor choices, we hold people responsible for those choices and force them to mke do with the results of those choices the best that they can.

Now, you -always- have the option to give to charity to help others - but that's YOUR choice.
Ok. You're clearly very, very confused. So let me break it down more.
Not in the slightest.


Quote:
Assume SS goes away. People have their 401ks, IRAs and Pensions, all of which invest in the stock market. The market crashes, like in 2008, and everyone loses 50% of their retirement account, like in 2008.

Are those people responsible for their retirement decisions? Yes. Absolutely. We all agree on this. No one but you seems to be arguing that.
Well then, there you have it. They are responsible for their decisions.
It is then up to them to do the best thay they can for themselves, given the resources their choices have left them with.

Quote:
How should the Government and the Country handle this hit on our economy?
Not sure why or how you don;t already know my answer, given how clear I have been on my position.
Nothing.
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  #137 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2012, 02:43 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Listening View Post
That effect of that has not registered, but I hear people talk about it all the time.
The effect "has not registered" but this hypothetical future effect is your explanation for why Medicare spending growth has fallen substantially over the past 2+ years? Is there a time portal involved here?
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  #138 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2012, 02:48 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by M14 Shooter View Post
Quote:
How should the Government and the Country handle this hit on our economy?
Not sure why or how you don;t already know my answer, given how clear I have been on my position.
Nothing.
Since you didn't answer the question until now, there was no way of me knowing for certain that you don't give two shits about the economy, the country or anyone who might retire at any time in the future.

But now I know. Thanks for clearing that up.
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Old 08-05-2012, 03:06 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Rozman View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by rdean View Post
Do you feel we should end Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid?

Yes or no?

If you say yes, then what happens to the people who depend on it? If you say no, then do you disagree with your leaders and if you do, then why you support them?
I say no...
I say we should find a way to pay for them.
The clock is ticking on these programs and as they are now we will have more people
withdrawing on these programs then paying in.

The left rather then try to fix these programs would rather bury their heads in the sand
and tell lies about the republicans who are trying to fix them.
Yours is a sensible observation and I fully agree.

Social Security is neither a giveaway nor an "entitlement" program. I am collecting Social Security but my employers and I paid into the program all my working life. If I live long enough I might receive more than was contributed but there are many who contribute for many years and die before age 62, therefore never collecting a penny from the fund.

One way to increase input to the Social Security fund is to eliminate the contribution cap. Another is to impose a means test based on one's net worth. In my case my monthly disbursement would be reduced by a hundred or two which wouldn't hurt me at all. And some retirees are so well off they wouldn't need any disbursement from the program at all.

The cost of Medicare for all could be greatly relieved by eliminating the medical bureaucracy and opening walk-in clinics staffed by former military medics, EMTs, and nurse practicioners who could effectively deal with the vast majority of Emergency Room cases and other minor medical complaints that presently impose on a physician's time. The main objective should be getting rid of the medical insurance corporations.
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  #140 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2012, 03:35 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Listening View Post
That effect of that has not registered, but I hear people talk about it all the time.
The effect "has not registered" but this hypothetical future effect is your explanation for why Medicare spending growth has fallen substantially over the past 2+ years? Is there a time portal involved here?
aren't you talking about excess spending growth...? that has decreased over the years due to various payment reforms....


83% of doctors are considering hanging up their stethoscopes because there will be a shortage of doctors due to the expansion of medicaid and if most of the patients have government plans they will not get paid very much and will have to jump through tons of hoops because there will be so many bureaucrats and rules between the doctor and the patient....

Quote:
The myth of Obamacare, The DPMA found that many doctors do not believe the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act will lead to better access to medical care for the majority of Americans. How will doctors make a living if the majority percentage of their patients have low paying Medicare and especially Medicaid insurance?

“Doctors clearly understand what Washington does not — that a piece of paper that says you are ‘covered’ by insurance or ‘enrolled’ in Medicare or Medicaid does not translate to actual medical care when doctors can’t afford to see patients at the lowball payments, and patients have to jump through government and insurance company bureaucratic hoops,” she said.

The Consequences of Obamacare … 83% of Doctors Have Considered Quitting over Obamacare | Scared Monkeys
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  #141 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2012, 03:39 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by WillowTree View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by DontBeStupid View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by M14 Shooter View Post
Again: You are responsible for you. Whatever choices you may have made, and whatever the results of those choices, they were -your- choices. If your choices led you to retiring later or with less money, the oly person responsible for that is you, and you have no right to expect others to make up for that.

And so, rather than force -other- people into a condition of involuntary servitude to make up for poor choices, we hold people responsible for those choices and force them to mke do with the results of those choices the best that they can.

Now, you -always- have the option to give to charity to help others - but that's YOUR choice.
Ok. You're clearly very, very confused. So let me break it down more.

Assume SS goes away. People have their 401ks, IRAs and Pensions, all of which invest in the stock market. The market crashes, like in 2008, and everyone loses 50% of their retirement account, like in 2008.

Are those people responsible for their retirement decisions? Yes. Absolutely. We all agree on this. No one but you seems to be arguing that.

Now that that is cleared up, what will these people do? They have two options. 1) Retire poor, or 2) Wait to retire. Again, whatever decision they make they are responsible for, no one is disagreeing on that.

Both options are terrible for our economy. Option 1 results in a generation of retirees with very weak purchasing power, which is not good. Option 2 results in workers not retiring and therefore not opening jobs up for younger workers.

Ok. Now that you know what we're talking about, here comes the question.

How should the Government and the Country handle this hit on our economy?

Wait .. wait ... remember, no one is arguing responsibility. Just a practical matter of how do we handle the hit to our economy.

Good luck.
obummer stole 500 billion dollars from medicare,, so cry us a fucking river whydonchya? what good does it do to put money into the system for 40 years if obummmer is going to steal it? how is that bit of compassion working for ya?
Geez! Don't nobody know nothing?

The 500 billion was not taken from medicare. It was taken from the medical advantage PRIVATE INSURANCE PLANS.

FYI (and you need it)

Medicare stays exactly the same. Nothing happens to it or its budget.

When I enroll in a medicare advantage plan (private insurance) medicare gives that private insurer "X" number of dollars per month for me. The private insurer then agrees to be totally responsible for my health care under the terms of medicare and the advantage plan.

The 500 billion came from that "X" number of dollars. I have a medicare advantage plan. In the wake of the bill my premium increased by 20 bucks a month. So you see I and others who have private insurance are paying this bill. I have no objection. The medicare advantage companies, at least in my state, are rolling in cash.

But that's another story.
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  #142 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2012, 03:42 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Rozman View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by rdean View Post
Do you feel we should end Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid?

Yes or no?

If you say yes, then what happens to the people who depend on it? If you say no, then do you disagree with your leaders and if you do, then why you support them?
I say no...
I say we should find a way to pay for them.
The clock is ticking on these programs and as they are now we will have more people
withdrawing on these programs then paying in.

The left rather then try to fix these programs would rather bury their heads in the sand
and tell lies about the republicans who are trying to fix them.
Yours is a sensible observation and I fully agree.

Social Security is neither a giveaway nor an "entitlement" program. I am collecting Social Security but my employers and I paid into the program all my working life. If I live long enough I might receive more than was contributed but there are many who contribute for many years and die before age 62, therefore never collecting a penny from the fund.

One way to increase input to the Social Security fund is to eliminate the contribution cap. Another is to impose a means test based on one's net worth. In my case my monthly disbursement would be reduced by a hundred or two which wouldn't hurt me at all. And some retirees are so well off they wouldn't need any disbursement from the program at all.

The cost of Medicare for all could be greatly relieved by eliminating the medical bureaucracy and opening walk-in clinics staffed by former military medics, EMTs, and nurse practicioners who could effectively deal with the vast majority of Emergency Room cases and other minor medical complaints that presently impose on a physician's time. The main objective should be getting rid of the medical insurance corporations.
That was worth a rep and a couple of attaboys!
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  #143 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2012, 03:46 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by DontBeStupid View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by LordBrownTrout View Post
Just give everyone a one time choice to opt in or out of these programs.
Ok, but again, how do you address a generation of retirees who have their retirement accounts wiped out in a stock market crash?
Why is there any need to address it? Its about personal responsibility. Ultimately, its up to you to look out for yourself, not me.
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  #144 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2012, 03:49 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by onecut39 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by WillowTree View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by DontBeStupid View Post

Ok. You're clearly very, very confused. So let me break it down more.

Assume SS goes away. People have their 401ks, IRAs and Pensions, all of which invest in the stock market. The market crashes, like in 2008, and everyone loses 50% of their retirement account, like in 2008.

Are those people responsible for their retirement decisions? Yes. Absolutely. We all agree on this. No one but you seems to be arguing that.

Now that that is cleared up, what will these people do? They have two options. 1) Retire poor, or 2) Wait to retire. Again, whatever decision they make they are responsible for, no one is disagreeing on that.

Both options are terrible for our economy. Option 1 results in a generation of retirees with very weak purchasing power, which is not good. Option 2 results in workers not retiring and therefore not opening jobs up for younger workers.

Ok. Now that you know what we're talking about, here comes the question.

How should the Government and the Country handle this hit on our economy?

Wait .. wait ... remember, no one is arguing responsibility. Just a practical matter of how do we handle the hit to our economy.

Good luck.
obummer stole 500 billion dollars from medicare,, so cry us a fucking river whydonchya? what good does it do to put money into the system for 40 years if obummmer is going to steal it? how is that bit of compassion working for ya?
Geez! Don't nobody know nothing?

The 500 billion was not taken from medicare. It was taken from the medical advantage PRIVATE INSURANCE PLANS.

FYI (and you need it)

Medicare stays exactly the same. Nothing happens to it or its budget.

When I enroll in a medicare advantage plan (private insurance) medicare gives that private insurer "X" number of dollars per month for me. The private insurer then agrees to be totally responsible for my health care under the terms of medicare and the advantage plan.

The 500 billion came from that "X" number of dollars. I have a medicare advantage plan. In the wake of the bill my premium increased by 20 bucks a month. So you see I and others who have private insurance are paying this bill. I have no objection. The medicare advantage companies, at least in my state, are rolling in cash.

But that's another story.
in other words seniors are getting less and already PAYING MORE under Obummercare....
(and dims complain about the Ryan plan....)

also......what about the upcoming boomer seniors......didn't they pay for that half trillion to fund their medicare programs....whether earmarked for the Advantage program or not?
what gives Obama the right to take it from them and spend medicare money on his new program....?

....besides BO is robbing more than just the Advantage plan.....he's also taking $ from medicare hospital and nursing services, etc. This means facilities will operate more and more in the red and they will limit access to seniors or just close their doors.
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“Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism”~Lenin

Last edited by ScreamingEagle; 08-05-2012 at 04:08 PM.
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  #145 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2012, 04:49 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by onecut39 View Post
Geez! Don't nobody know nothing?

The 500 billion was not taken from medicare. It was taken from the medical advantage PRIVATE INSURANCE PLANS.

FYI (and you need it)

Medicare stays exactly the same. Nothing happens to it or its budget.

When I enroll in a medicare advantage plan (private insurance) medicare gives that private insurer "X" number of dollars per month for me. The private insurer then agrees to be totally responsible for my health care under the terms of medicare and the advantage plan.

The 500 billion came from that "X" number of dollars. I have a medicare advantage plan. In the wake of the bill my premium increased by 20 bucks a month. So you see I and others who have private insurance are paying this bill. I have no objection. The medicare advantage companies, at least in my state, are rolling in cash.

But that's another story.

Funny how facts are avoided by the dittoheads.

By the way, Humana and United are the two biggest players in the Medicare Advantage space. In the two years since Obamacare passed, HUM is up 25%, UNH is up 54%. They're doing fine with significantly lower Medicare reimbursement, the MA plans are still very robust, it's working out quite well. They've both moved away from PFFS plans, which were much more costly, and toward PPO and HMO plans.

I have to train on this crap as part of my profession. I don't get my information from partisan radio blabbers.

This is going to take a public/private partnership such as the one I've described, despite what Rush says, despite what the dittoheads repeat, despite how much they mock people who are suffering.

.
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Last edited by Mac1958; 08-05-2012 at 04:54 PM.
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  #146 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2012, 04:55 PM
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Old 08-05-2012, 05:08 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Mac1958 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by onecut39 View Post
Geez! Don't nobody know nothing?

The 500 billion was not taken from medicare. It was taken from the medical advantage PRIVATE INSURANCE PLANS.

FYI (and you need it)

Medicare stays exactly the same. Nothing happens to it or its budget.

When I enroll in a medicare advantage plan (private insurance) medicare gives that private insurer "X" number of dollars per month for me. The private insurer then agrees to be totally responsible for my health care under the terms of medicare and the advantage plan.

The 500 billion came from that "X" number of dollars. I have a medicare advantage plan. In the wake of the bill my premium increased by 20 bucks a month. So you see I and others who have private insurance are paying this bill. I have no objection. The medicare advantage companies, at least in my state, are rolling in cash.

But that's another story.

Funny how facts are avoided by the dittoheads.

By the way, Humana and United are the two biggest players in the Medicare Advantage space. In the two years since Obamacare passed, HUM is up 25%, UNH is up 54%. They're doing fine with significantly lower Medicare reimbursement, the MA plans are still very robust, it's working out quite well. They've both moved away from PFFS plans, which were much more costly, and toward PPO and HMO plans.

I have to train on this crap as part of my profession. I don't get my information from partisan radio blabbers.

This is going to take a public/private partnership such as the one I've described, despite what Rush says, despite what the dittoheads repeat, despite how much they mock people who are suffering.

.
5/10/12

Today, about 25 percent of Medicare beneficiaries are enrolled in Medicare Advantage plans.

In a report I prepared with Robert Book for the Heritage Foundation, we found that Obamacare will cut Medicare Advantage payment rates by an average of $3,700 per beneficiary in 2017, or 27 percent below the payment rates that would have been made without Obamacare. These cuts will translate directly into higher health-care costs for seniors. Seniors who remain in Medicare Advantage will face higher costs, because the cuts will force the plans to cut back on the benefits they offer and to charge higher cost-sharing for the services they do cover. Further, seniors who will be pushed out of Medicare Advantage and back into the traditional program will lose entirely the added benefits provided by most Medicare Advantage plans. None of this is captured in Fidelity’s analysis.

This is no small matter. Seniors losing $3,700 per year from enrollment in Medicare at 65 until their deaths at age 77 or 78 would lose about $44,000 in benefits over their lifetimes, all because of Obamacare’s cuts.

Obamacare Hurts Seniors - James C. Capretta - National Review Online
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Old 08-05-2012, 05:10 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by WillowTree View Post

obummer stole 500 billion dollars from medicare,, so cry us a fucking river whydonchya? what good does it do to put money into the system for 40 years if obummmer is going to steal it? how is that bit of compassion working for ya?
Geez! Don't nobody know nothing?

The 500 billion was not taken from medicare. It was taken from the medical advantage PRIVATE INSURANCE PLANS.

FYI (and you need it)

Medicare stays exactly the same. Nothing happens to it or its budget.

When I enroll in a medicare advantage plan (private insurance) medicare gives that private insurer "X" number of dollars per month for me. The private insurer then agrees to be totally responsible for my health care under the terms of medicare and the advantage plan.

The 500 billion came from that "X" number of dollars. I have a medicare advantage plan. In the wake of the bill my premium increased by 20 bucks a month. So you see I and others who have private insurance are paying this bill. I have no objection. The medicare advantage companies, at least in my state, are rolling in cash.

But that's another story.
in other words seniors are getting less and already PAYING MORE under Obummercare....
(and dims complain about the Ryan plan....)

also......what about the upcoming boomer seniors......didn't they pay for that half trillion to fund their medicare programs....whether earmarked for the Advantage program or not?
what gives Obama the right to take it from them and spend medicare money on his new program....?

....besides BO is robbing more than just the Advantage plan.....he's also taking $ from medicare hospital and nursing services, etc. This means facilities will operate more and more in the red and they will limit access to seniors or just close their doors.
I am not getting less. My medicare advantage program gives me the best healthcare of my life.

Do you have any idea what at private insurance contracts with hospitals look like?

In my case, during my hospitalizations, Blue Cross paid about 40% of the bill that was sent to me by the hospital. PAID IN FULL!! That is what the contract calls for.

Do you think the hospital was losing money on their blue cross contract?

You poor innocent!
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Old 08-05-2012, 05:12 PM
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Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow
Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow
Quote: Originally Posted by Mac1958 View Post

Funny how facts are avoided by the dittoheads.
Not everyone who disagrees with socialized medical services, Medicare, Medicaid and/or your jimmied "facts" is a dittohead, Skeezix.

True story.
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Old 08-05-2012, 05:15 PM
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Full-Auto could be on the Supreme Court
Full-Auto could be on the Supreme Court Full-Auto could be on the Supreme Court Full-Auto could be on the Supreme Court Full-Auto could be on the Supreme Court Full-Auto could be on the Supreme Court Full-Auto could be on the Supreme Court Full-Auto could be on the Supreme Court Full-Auto could be on the Supreme Court Full-Auto could be on the Supreme Court Full-Auto could be on the Supreme Court Full-Auto could be on the Supreme Court Full-Auto could be on the Supreme Court Full-Auto could be on the Supreme Court Full-Auto could be on the Supreme Court Full-Auto could be on the Supreme Court
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"They just have to pay for services rendered." Oh, that's all.

Okay, so we're going to pretend that millions of Americans don't avoid getting preventive and diagnostic services done because they can't afford it. We're going to ignorethat many people can't get health insurance because they can't afford it, can't pass underwriting or both. We're going to pretend that these people can just write a check for services rendered.

We're also going to ignore the fact that the diseases and conditions that many people have could have been treated much more cost-effectively if they had been caught earlier if those people could have had access to preventive and diagnostic services.

You're goddamn right I'm a cheapskate. I'm sick and tired of paying vastly inflated health care premiums and costs, inflated due to the fact that I'm paying for other people's treatment. Inflated due to the fact that so many people can't afford preventive and diagnostic services and end up costing system and me far more than they should.

If you want to keep chanting "socialism", quoting Rush and paying a shitload more than you should be for health care, that's your call. I'm a cheapskate, and I think this simple-minded lunacy.

.
The people cant afford it.......................So we as a collective must steal from others to pay for it.

Well isnt that damn impressive. We need an affordable care act.............


Oh wait!!!! One that actually makes it affordable............
yeah, fuck it....let 'em die...guess Grayson was right(this goes out to Mr."take a fuckin' pill" too).

go fuck yourselves you selfish dickheads.
There is a thing called liberty...........

I have or used to I should say the option of choosing what type of health insurance I would want to carry if any. I opted in. Have paid heavy premiums........ So now the liberals come along and say this other stuff should be free.

For who?????? Again with picking winners and losers. You idiots are spending us into very ugly times.

I dont take issue with helping the less fortunate, I do take issue with the piss poor management democrats insist on.


Will you ever get a damn clue?
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