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Letter from my employer concerning Obamacare/Obamatax

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Old 07-08-2012, 10:46 PM
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Letter from my employer concerning Obamacare/Obamatax

Quote:
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 10:17 AM
To: *General Announcement
Subject: Update - Health Care Reform and **** Insurance Program



Admin: Please post for those without email. Thanks!



Good morning,



There may be some questions about the recent Supreme Court decision on Health Care Reform. Here is a summary from *****, **** insurance broker, regarding the decision and any impact to **** insurance program.

“In a complex 193 page ruling, the Supreme Court ruled that the ‘individual mandate’ in the Patient Protection Affordable Care Act (PPACA) health care law is legal as long as it is an imposed tax for not obtaining health insurance. At this point the **** benefit program complies with all aspects of the PPACA law. The new tax will only impact those individuals that choose not to purchase health insurance and not until 2014. Employer provided benefits, like the **** program, are not subject to employee taxation, unless the benefit qualifies as a ‘Cadillac Plan’ and then not until 2018. The potential taxation of the plan as income to employees in 2018 is an area we will address as the concern becomes more prevalent.”



We’ll keep you posted if and when developments impact our insurance program.



Please call if you have any questions,

****

The reason I post this, is because every time I hear a moron liberal who claims you wont be affected at all unless you do not have a plan, I want to throw something at the TV, radio, or computer screen.
I've been around the block a few times, and you cannot sit there and tell me I wont be affected no matter what. This is a whole new entitlement program that will have it's own burecracy of the federal government. Ever know one of those that do anything but grow ?

Wont affect me or you my ass ! Just wait a few years dumbasses !

Last edited by Zxereus; 07-08-2012 at 10:47 PM.
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Old 07-08-2012, 10:50 PM
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It will just like all other nationalized health care countries.... you pay for national shit plan...and pay for the premium plan you want that will provide you with the care and standards you are used to having.

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Old 07-08-2012, 10:54 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Zxereus View Post
Quote:
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 10:17 AM
To: *General Announcement
Subject: Update - Health Care Reform and **** Insurance Program



Admin: Please post for those without email. Thanks!



Good morning,



There may be some questions about the recent Supreme Court decision on Health Care Reform. Here is a summary from *****, **** insurance broker, regarding the decision and any impact to **** insurance program.

“In a complex 193 page ruling, the Supreme Court ruled that the ‘individual mandate’ in the Patient Protection Affordable Care Act (PPACA) health care law is legal as long as it is an imposed tax for not obtaining health insurance. At this point the **** benefit program complies with all aspects of the PPACA law. The new tax will only impact those individuals that choose not to purchase health insurance and not until 2014. Employer provided benefits, like the **** program, are not subject to employee taxation, unless the benefit qualifies as a ‘Cadillac Plan’ and then not until 2018. The potential taxation of the plan as income to employees in 2018 is an area we will address as the concern becomes more prevalent.”



We’ll keep you posted if and when developments impact our insurance program.



Please call if you have any questions,

****

The reason I post this, is because every time I hear a moron liberal who claims you wont be affected at all unless you do not have a plan, I want to throw something at the TV, radio, or computer screen.
I've been around the block a few times, and you cannot sit there and tell me I wont be affected no matter what. This is a whole new entitlement program that will have it's own burecracy of the federal government. Ever know one of those that do anything but grow ?

Wont affect me or you my ass ! Just wait a few years dumbasses !
Actually, that letter says that you're not affected by the law, as far as they know right now.
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Old 07-08-2012, 10:55 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by syrenn View Post
It will just like all other nationalized health care countries.... you pay for national shit plan...and pay for the premium plan you want that will provide you with the care and standards you are used to having.

And in time prices for everything else will rise, just as they did in Canada... Because the money has to come from somewhere. The working class won't be able to foot the entire Bill.
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Old 07-08-2012, 11:00 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by tjvh View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by syrenn View Post
It will just like all other nationalized health care countries.... you pay for national shit plan...and pay for the premium plan you want that will provide you with the care and standards you are used to having.

And in time prices for everything else will rise, just as they did in Canada... Because the money has to come from somewhere. The working class won't be able to foot the entire Bill.

Oh i know.... pricing is going to go off the scale becasue of his little ponzi scheme
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Old 07-08-2012, 11:09 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by theDoctorisIn View Post
Actually, that letter says that you're not affected by the law, as far as they know right now.
The hard right trash doesn't care, in their minds: The ACA = complete doom and destruction to america. We will be forced to live on the streets in cardboard boxes, dig through landfills for scraps, and drink from swamps to survive..

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Old 07-08-2012, 11:22 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by theDoctorisIn View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Zxereus View Post
Quote:
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 10:17 AM
To: *General Announcement
Subject: Update - Health Care Reform and **** Insurance Program



Admin: Please post for those without email. Thanks!



Good morning,



There may be some questions about the recent Supreme Court decision on Health Care Reform. Here is a summary from *****, **** insurance broker, regarding the decision and any impact to **** insurance program.

“In a complex 193 page ruling, the Supreme Court ruled that the ‘individual mandate’ in the Patient Protection Affordable Care Act (PPACA) health care law is legal as long as it is an imposed tax for not obtaining health insurance. At this point the **** benefit program complies with all aspects of the PPACA law. The new tax will only impact those individuals that choose not to purchase health insurance and not until 2014. Employer provided benefits, like the **** program, are not subject to employee taxation, unless the benefit qualifies as a ‘Cadillac Plan’ and then not until 2018. The potential taxation of the plan as income to employees in 2018 is an area we will address as the concern becomes more prevalent.”



We’ll keep you posted if and when developments impact our insurance program.



Please call if you have any questions,

****

The reason I post this, is because every time I hear a moron liberal who claims you wont be affected at all unless you do not have a plan, I want to throw something at the TV, radio, or computer screen.
I've been around the block a few times, and you cannot sit there and tell me I wont be affected no matter what. This is a whole new entitlement program that will have it's own burecracy of the federal government. Ever know one of those that do anything but grow ?

Wont affect me or you my ass ! Just wait a few years dumbasses !
Actually, that letter says that you're not affected by the law, as far as they know right now.

"as far as they know right now"


Yeah, and that's the whole point.
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Old 07-08-2012, 11:29 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Zxereus View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by theDoctorisIn View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Zxereus View Post


The reason I post this, is because every time I hear a moron liberal who claims you wont be affected at all unless you do not have a plan, I want to throw something at the TV, radio, or computer screen.
I've been around the block a few times, and you cannot sit there and tell me I wont be affected no matter what. This is a whole new entitlement program that will have it's own burecracy of the federal government. Ever know one of those that do anything but grow ?

Wont affect me or you my ass ! Just wait a few years dumbasses !
Actually, that letter says that you're not affected by the law, as far as they know right now.

"as far as they know right now"


Yeah, and that's the whole point.
So, you're outraged that there's a possibility that in 6 years, your plan might be deemed a "Cadillac" plan, and you might have to pay an additional tax?

Why don't you wait until you're actually affected by it before you get outraged, rather than get outraged about how you might at some point in the future be affected by it.
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:33 AM
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Doc,

It's the UNCERTAINTY.

As you know, unless a business owner can be absolutely certain about what costs will be 6 years from now, he or she cannot possibly make a 5 year plan. They will be paralyzed by this uncertainty and will refrain from investing in their business and hiring employees....even if they need them to meet demand.
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:53 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by theDoctorisIn View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Zxereus View Post
Quote:
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 10:17 AM
To: *General Announcement
Subject: Update - Health Care Reform and **** Insurance Program



Admin: Please post for those without email. Thanks!



Good morning,



There may be some questions about the recent Supreme Court decision on Health Care Reform. Here is a summary from *****, **** insurance broker, regarding the decision and any impact to **** insurance program.

“In a complex 193 page ruling, the Supreme Court ruled that the ‘individual mandate’ in the Patient Protection Affordable Care Act (PPACA) health care law is legal as long as it is an imposed tax for not obtaining health insurance. At this point the **** benefit program complies with all aspects of the PPACA law. The new tax will only impact those individuals that choose not to purchase health insurance and not until 2014. Employer provided benefits, like the **** program, are not subject to employee taxation, unless the benefit qualifies as a ‘Cadillac Plan’ and then not until 2018. The potential taxation of the plan as income to employees in 2018 is an area we will address as the concern becomes more prevalent.”



We’ll keep you posted if and when developments impact our insurance program.



Please call if you have any questions,

****

The reason I post this, is because every time I hear a moron liberal who claims you wont be affected at all unless you do not have a plan, I want to throw something at the TV, radio, or computer screen.
I've been around the block a few times, and you cannot sit there and tell me I wont be affected no matter what. This is a whole new entitlement program that will have it's own burecracy of the federal government. Ever know one of those that do anything but grow ?

Wont affect me or you my ass ! Just wait a few years dumbasses !
Actually, that letter says that you're not affected by the law, as far as they know right now.
Unless he doesn't want health insurance...
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Old 07-09-2012, 05:04 AM
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There are no sane, thinking people who do not want health insurance. There are only people who do not believe in the idea that we are one nation....and ought to pool our resources to improve the health of this nation.........as a whole.

People who claim that they pay out of pocket for their medical expenses are either full of shit or have never been seriously ill or injured. Anyone with an income large enough to pay out of pocket is smart enough to understand the value of buying insurance.
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Old 07-09-2012, 05:16 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Black_Label View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by theDoctorisIn View Post
Actually, that letter says that you're not affected by the law, as far as they know right now.
The hard right trash doesn't care, in their minds: The ACA = complete doom and destruction to america. We will be forced to live on the streets in cardboard boxes, dig through landfills for scraps, and drink from swamps to survive..
The Right says this about every bit of change and progress that happens. One example..remember how allowing gays in the military was going to destroy that institution? How many times did we hear hysterica to that effect?

Imagine if the country had actually listened to the Right over the decades of the history of this country. Think of all the changes that would not have happened.
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Old 07-09-2012, 05:19 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by LoneLaugher View Post
Doc,

It's the UNCERTAINTY.

As you know, unless a business owner can be absolutely certain about what costs will be 6 years from now, he or she cannot possibly make a 5 year plan. They will be paralyzed by this uncertainty and will refrain from investing in their business and hiring employees....even if they need them to meet demand.
The 'uncertainty' argument is nothing more than propaganda. When was there EVER 'certainty'?

Never.
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Old 07-09-2012, 05:45 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Zxereus View Post
Quote:
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 10:17 AM
To: *General Announcement
Subject: Update - Health Care Reform and **** Insurance Program



Admin: Please post for those without email. Thanks!



Good morning,



There may be some questions about the recent Supreme Court decision on Health Care Reform. Here is a summary from *****, **** insurance broker, regarding the decision and any impact to **** insurance program.

“In a complex 193 page ruling, the Supreme Court ruled that the ‘individual mandate’ in the Patient Protection Affordable Care Act (PPACA) health care law is legal as long as it is an imposed tax for not obtaining health insurance. At this point the **** benefit program complies with all aspects of the PPACA law. The new tax will only impact those individuals that choose not to purchase health insurance and not until 2014. Employer provided benefits, like the **** program, are not subject to employee taxation, unless the benefit qualifies as a ‘Cadillac Plan’ and then not until 2018. The potential taxation of the plan as income to employees in 2018 is an area we will address as the concern becomes more prevalent.”



We’ll keep you posted if and when developments impact our insurance program.



Please call if you have any questions,

****
The reason I post this, is because every time I hear a moron liberal who claims you wont be affected at all unless you do not have a plan, I want to throw something at the TV, radio, or computer screen.
I've been around the block a few times, and you cannot sit there and tell me I wont be affected no matter what. This is a whole new entitlement program that will have it's own burecracy of the federal government. Ever know one of those that do anything but grow ?

Wont affect me or you my ass ! Just wait a few years dumbasses !
Let's HOPE the plan does affect you with all of the improvements, carry your kids on your plan till they are 25, cover preexisting conditions, not have a cap on what the insurance companies will pay in a lifetime for your care....and hopefully lower your insurance expense etc etc etc.

How much did Medicare Part D's (the pill bill's) unpaid entitlement's Bureaucracy affect your life?

Last edited by Care4all; 07-09-2012 at 05:46 AM.
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Old 07-09-2012, 05:49 AM
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Ironic, THIS is what conservatives had to say in the early '90's when Clinton and Democrats tried to reform health care. But NOW their words must be discarded. When they talked about personal responsibility, it wasn't meant to apply to THEM.


Personal Freedom, Responsibility, And Mandates
by Robert E. Moffit

The national debate on universal health coverage is the latest incarnation of an ancient, enduring question of political philosophy: reconciling personal liberty and the authority of the State. It is the central problem of American political culture and is at the heart of nearly every major constitutional conflict in our history.

Americans-heirs of a classical liberal tradition, grounded in the political philosophy of John Locke and the spirit of Thomas Jefferson, in which personal freedom is paramount - harbor a deep distrust of governmental authority. We do not automatically assume that the individual is or should be subordinate to society, whether the issue is literary censorship or economic regulation.1 Therefore, any political limitation on personal freedom, regardless of prevailing wisdom, prejudices, or majority interests, must be based on a compelling argument.2

The Taxpayer Mandate

Policy analysts at The Heritage Foundation have wrestled incessantly with this problem, while developing a “consumer choice” plan for comprehensive health system reform, now embodied in a major legislative proposal.3 Only after extensive analysis of the peculiar distortions of the health insurance market did Heritage scholars reluctantly agree to an individual mandate.

On this point, some observations are in order. First, much of the debate over whether we should have a mandate is, in a sense, a debate over a “metaphysical abstraction.” 4 For all practical purposes, we already have a powerful and increasingly oppressive mandate: a mandate on taxpayers.

We all pay for the health care of those who do not pay, in two ways. First, people with private insurance pay through that insurance–even though that insurance is often the property of employers under current law. This reflects the ever-higher costs shifted to offset the billions of dollars of costs of uncompensated care in hospitals, clinics, and physicians’ offices. Second, if those who are uninsured get seriously ill and are forced to spend down their assets to cope with their huge medical bills, their care is paid for, not through employer-based or private insurance premiums, but through taxes, money taken by federal and state tax collectors to fund Medicaid or other public assistance programs that serve the poor or those impoverished because of a serious illness.

Hospitals also have legal obligations to accept and care for those who enter seeking assistance. No responsible public official is proposing repeal of these statutory provisions, and very few physicians, if any, are prepared to deny treatment to persons seeking their help merely because they cannot afford to pay. As taxpayers and subscribers to private health insurance, the American people pick up these bills.

Aside from current economic arrangements, the entire moral and cultural tenor of our society reinforces the taxpayer mandate. Those who are uninsured and cannot pay for their care will be cared for, and those who are insured and working will pay for that care.

So, we already have a mandate. But it is both inefficient and unfair.

A Snare And A Delusion


Employer-based health insurance in this country is the product of wartime economic and tax policy of the 1940s. There is no reason why health reform in the 1990s should be governed by those unique circumstances and outdated tax policies.

Uwe Reinhardt and Alan Krueger tell us that the tax treatment of employment-based health insurance now is sharply regressive. And, Mark Pauly confirms, it contributes to market distortions, high costs, and lack of portability in health insurance. Americans today get tax relief for health insurance on only one condition: that they get it from their employer. This has tied health insurance to the workplace in a way that no other insurance is treated. It means that if we lose or change a job, we lose our health coverage.

Pauly also tells us that employer-based insurance hides the true costs of health care. Thus, there is no normal collision between the forces of supply and demand on even the most basic level. Most workers do not purchase health insurance; it is purchased by somebody else, usually the company. For most workers, it is a “free good,” an extra, that automatically comes with the job. At least, we live with that comfortable illusion. But, in fact, it is not free at all, and the employer gives us nothing. Because too many people think that the employer’s contribution is the employer’s money and not theirs, the consumer’s perception is distorted (as is the provider’s), and health spending is not subject to market discipline. Likewise, because too many people still do not understand this reality, “hidden taxes” through the employer mandate are politically attractive. Such a mandate thus serves as a psychological snare and an economic delusion.

Karen Davis and Cathy Schoen suggest a payroll tax to finance reform, whereby the employer pays 8 percent and the employee pays 2 percent. If one of our tasks is to make the true costs transparent, this suggestion does not help very much.

In his otherwise enlightening paper, Reinhardt calls attention to the virtues of a “mandated purchase” of health insurance. And he warns that calling an employer’s “mandated purchase” a “tax” comes close to debasing the English language. But, in a similar context, Reinhardt uses the word contribution to describe suspiciously similar functions. Suffice it to say, the campaign for linguistic precision is hardly advanced by using the word contibution to describe the state’s forcible extraction of citizens’ money.

In another context, Reinhardt proposes perhaps the best single reform idea to date. He suggests a simple financial disclosure on the part of the nation’s employers, requiring every employer to put periodically on the pay stub of every worker in America something like the following: “We have paid you X thousand dollars in health benefits. This has reduced your wages by X thousand dollars.” We would add: “Have a nice day!„5

http://content.healthaffairs.org/con...2/101.full.pdf
__________________
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
John Kenneth Galbraith
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