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Why I Could Never Be GOP or Libertarian

This is a discussion on Why I Could Never Be GOP or Libertarian within the Politics forums, part of the US Discussion category; Quote: Originally Posted by Erand7899 Quote: Originally Posted by sealybobo Quote: Originally Posted by occupied Most RW libertarians I talk to on the internet have ...


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  #451 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2012, 08:59 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Erand7899 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by sealybobo View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by occupied View Post
Most RW libertarians I talk to on the internet have so many conflicting opinions it makes my head hurt. One minute they are all about personal freedom and responsibility for themselves and the next they seem to have fascist opinions on dealing with social problems such as poverty, immigration and crime. I just cannot compartmentalize my opinions like that, for them all men are not created equal and American exceptionalism forgives all sins.
Republicans may be ok with the idea that we are all born equal because they don't want to admit they were born with a silver spoon in their mouths.

What they believe in is every man for himself and survival of the fittest. So if the weak parrish, so be it. That's what happens in free unregulated markets/societies. Like the caraboo being stalked by the wolves. Its every caraboo for himself. They don't turn around and protect the weak caraboo. They just keep moving.

Democrats like safety nets. No one I know hates their social security and medicare.
I, for one, believe that all people are born equal under the law. Only an idiot would believe that all are born equal in any other regard.

I also believe that individuals acting in their own economic self interests further our economic growth, and control the availability of goods and services far better than any bureaucrat is capable of doing. If government controlled the food supply, most people would be starving, while standing in line hoping for a little bit of meat with their allotted loaf of bread.

And, I believe that most modern day liberal/socialists are scared to death of real life, and absolutely sure that they will fail if left to their own resources. They desire a nanny state to replace the security provided by their doting parents.
Excuse me, but the government does control our food supply. FDA ring a bell? Ecoli. Recalled foods. Chinese food contaminated. Their pet food killed our pets, remember? Thanks Bush for defunding the FDA. Ron Paul would be a nightmare.
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  #452 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2012, 09:42 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by sealybobo View Post
I'm not going to spend all day going around and around with an idiot like you.
What, with all that crack out there, needing smoking and slinging.

Quote:
I'll give you one thing to chew on. You cry for us to Drill Baby Drill.
I do?

Or do you simply have a stereotype that you apply to all who are not of your party?

The reality is that you have no idea what I "cry," "say," or "think." Nor do you care. You have talking points from some hate site on how to attack a conservative, and simply toss out hate points at random.

Quote:
That would save you ten fucking cents every time you filled up. Oil Speculators are costing every economy car owner an extra $12 everytime they fill up.
Utter bullshit.

First off, "speculators" are an unknown. The impact that futures markets have on the price of oil changes daily.

What we DO know is that 62 cents of every dollar spent on gas goes to the government in taxes. (based on California)

Quote:
And SUV owners over $20. So you keep crying about ten cents Sarah Palin. You don't have a clue the GOP are handing the oil companies all the land dirt cheap. Why do that? Why not charge them more since its a hot commodity? And why don't the oil companies build their own refineries?
Yes, WHY don't oil companies build refineries?

{To address the refining-capacity shortfall, there have been endless calls to build new refineries. This has become next to impossible because we now adhere to the BANANA philosophy. This stands for Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anyone. BANANA has replaced NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard). According to the Tucson Citizen, a company in Arizona sought a permit in 1998 to build a refinery in Mobile, outside Phoenix. This would be the first new refinery built domestically since 1976. Five years later, the state of Arizona determined that the proposed location would not be in compliance with the ozone standards. The company then agreed to build the refinery near Yuma. Two years later, in 2005, the final permit was issued. This was seven years after the original request. Barring any further Big Government/Big Green roadblocks, we may have the first new U.S. refinery in 2011.}

Whom Should We Thank for High Gas Prices? | The Freeman | Ideas On Liberty

Witless moron.

Quote:
Nope, I'm not going to ask you any questions. I don't want an answer, because I know all your right wing answers. I disagree in advance. And so do the masses. But the rich/GOP think money and corporations should have a louder voice than us citizens. We think corporations should stay out of politics. But now after Citizens United, the rich rule this country. Only Obama will appoint 3 or 4 moderate/liberal Supreme Court justices should 3 or 4 retire. Eat a dick. You are a lost soul.
Why do you come here?

Why don't you just jerk off with the other mindless fools at ThinkProgress and be done with it?

You know that everyone here recognizes you for what you are, a partisan with no capacity for thought. So why do you bother? Do you REALLY think you're going to convince anyone with your idiotic spewing of Common Dreams bullshit?

Those swayed by the hate sites will log on to the hate sites themselves, they don't need you to repeat the moronic hate points.

Quote:
But Randi Rhodes said it best. Us liberals look out for cons despite yourselves. We won't let the rich take your social security and medicare, or deny you for a pre existing condition. Even though you fight us every step of the way. You can have sick days and vacation days too, even though it was a union that won those things for you.

I have a righty friend who's 55 year old wife just got approved for disability. If it were up to the GOP, that program would't exist. Wake up America!
Sillybonobo, you really are stupid.

Which is why you're a leftist.
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  #453 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2012, 09:45 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by sealybobo View Post
Excuse me, but the government does control our food supply.
Da comrade, GLORIOUS peoples commisars make for all food you should be get....

Quote:
FDA ring a bell? Ecoli. Recalled foods. Chinese food contaminated. Their pet food killed our pets, remember? Thanks Bush for defunding the FDA. Ron Paul would be a nightmare.
ROFL

Fucking retard, you make RDean appear well balanced.

Don't ever change.
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  #454 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2012, 10:00 AM
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sealybobo could be State Governor sealybobo could be State Governor sealybobo could be State Governor sealybobo could be State Governor sealybobo could be State Governor sealybobo could be State Governor sealybobo could be State Governor sealybobo could be State Governor sealybobo could be State Governor sealybobo could be State Governor
Republcan policies will produce a small but powerful wealthy class, a small "middle" mercantilist class, and a huge and terrified worker class. When cons say let the market decide, what they really mean is stop government from defending workers and the middle class and let the corporations decide how much to pay for labor and how much to trade with china and india. Their way has not worked for the American middle class.

But republicans say the government is the problem. Only problem with that is that the middle class is the creation of government intervention in the marketplace, and won't exist without it. Labor laws, minimum wage, unions, etc.

If you want to play the game of business in the US you have to play in a way that both makes you money AND serves the public interest. Manufacturing in China and outsourcing to India does not serve the publics interest. But remember you said it would? You said as consumers we would save money. But who cares? We want good jobs, not cheap goods.

The big American middle class is the invention of liberal democracies, the New Deal, labor laws, minimum wage. It is the result of government regulation of markets and tax and labor laws.

When government sets the rules of the game of business in such a way that workers benefit too, a
middle class will emerge. When government gives up these functions, the middle class disappears, as we saw happening under Bush. It actually started with Reagan.

Only a return to We The People again setting and enforcing the rules of the game of business - will reverse this dangerous trend. We've done it before, with tariffs, anti-trust legislation, and worker protections ranging from enforcing the rights of organized labor to restricting American companies' access to cheap foreign labor through visas and tariffs. The result was the production of something never before seen in history: a strong and vibrant middle class.
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  #455 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2012, 10:52 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by sealybobo View Post

Educate yourself with something from the left. Broaden your mind. Open it. Stop being brainwashed.

Nope, I'm not going to ask you any questions. I don't want an answer, because I know all your right wing answers. I disagree in advance. Wake up America!




How fucking typicallly lefty can you get? And you don't even understand what the hell I mean.
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  #456 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2012, 11:22 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by sealybobo View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Uncensored2008 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by ilia25 View Post
Then how can you explain this astonishing rise in the median household income:
1979: $46,074
2010: $49,445
Median Household Income History in the United States
How do YOU explain purchasing power?
The earnings of male workers in the middle of the income ladder are lower today than they were almost 40 years ago. In 1973, the median male worker earned just over $49,000 when adjusted for inflation, while in 2010 that worker made about $1,500 less.

Yet, in the same period, the output of the economy has more than doubled, and the productivity of workers has risen steadily.

meanwhile

“Income inequality in this country is just getting worse. And that is not a recipe for stable economic growth when the rich are getting richer and everybody else is being left behind.

Since 1980, about 5 percent of annual national income has shifted from the middle class to the nation’s richest households. That means the wealthiest 5,934 households last year enjoyed an additional $650 billion.

Disputes over what constitutes economic fairness are moving to center stage amid a near-stagnant U.S. economy saddled with 9.1 percent unemployment yet boasting record corporate profits.

Growing Income Gap May Leave U.S. Vulnerable - Bloomberg
Median income is not an average, it is the point where half the population make more than that figure, and half make less than that figure. Median income can change right along with the economy. As workers get laid off from good paying jobs, and start over at lower paying jobs, the median income drops.

Median income goes up as workers move up the economic ladder in good times, and falls as workers move down the ladder in bad times.

One can only determine if workers are better off, or worse off, on average, by figuring what the average worker can purchase with an hour's work. While doing so, one has to calculate how the tax burden of federal, state and local taxes affects that purchasing power.

In addition, one has to figure the differences in purchases. The average family of 1060 was satisfied with a 1200 square foot house, an automobile with a radio, and a 17 inch TV set. Today, that same family would be considered part of the working poor.
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  #457 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2012, 11:43 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by sealybobo View Post
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Could you be any more of a fucking cliche? Take off the big shoes, park the tiny car, wipe off the make-up and STOP BEING SUCH A FUCKING CLOWN.
Boo Boo has been promoting socialism on here since her first post.
Never. I only say that there is no such thing as a free market. Markets are the creation of government. And the middle class is the creation of liberal policies. Unions, labor laws, 40 hour work weeks, sick days, vacation days, etc. Free markets didn't produce these things.

Government is the referee. And we all know without rules there is kaos. So what Republicans want is for government to stop enforcing the rules and let corporations decide how much they pay their workers and if they manufacture overseas.

But they want to use our roads, bridges, court systems, military, educated workforce paid for by the public school system.

No one wants socialism, except for maybe the healthcare and oil industries. They have gotten out of control. If we don't nationalize them, they at least need to be more heavily regulated.

The GOP do reverse socialism. They socialize the losses and privatize all the profits. Perfect example are the private contractors in Iraq. Who are they defending? The oil companies.
A market was created the first time that a farmer traded a cow for two sheep and a pig. No government involvement at all. Government did not even exist in many areas of the old West, yet markets existed everywhere that a dollar could be made by buying and selling. Consequently, your assertion that government creates markets is pure nonsense.

Every civilized society needs government to protect private party rights, and protect citizens from other citizens, and from other societies. Beyond that basic need for government, we get into choices. We trade individual freedom for additional government services. We pay for those services through taxes and fees, and that reduces our individual freedom by reducing our available resources.

Most reasonable people accept government building necessary infrastructure, establishing rules and regulations that protect the environment, and safeguard the free enterprise system. Beyond that, reasonable people disagree over the wisdom of government intrusion into our private lives.
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:02 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by sealybobo View Post
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Quote: Originally Posted by Unkotare View Post


And you really felt the need to start a whole new thread just to declare the fact that you are a hyper-partisan douche? You think there was anyone who didn't already know that?
How else would we know that he viamently [sic] disagrees with anyone who doesn't share his delusions if he didn't start a thread about it?
I love it that you righties can swallow Bush's, Roves, Rush's, Fox's, Mitt and Ron Paul's seamen but then you are shocked when we defend the Democratic party just as strongly as you defend the GOP.
I don't think you're crazy. I think you're stupid. I agreed with almost nothing Bush or Rove did. I haven't watched FOX News or listened to Rush Limbaugh in years. I'm not voting for Mitt in November. I'm not a member nor a supporter of the GOP, and I have only defended them to the extent of pointing out certain idiotic comments dipshits like you make on a regular basis.
Quote: Originally Posted by sealybobo View Post
And you don't realize I think you are just as batshit crazy as you think I am. And you are going to see in November more people agree with me. Watch. This aint no midterm stupid.
Argumentum ad populum. Google it.
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  #459 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2012, 12:11 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by sealybobo View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Erand7899 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by sealybobo View Post

Republicans may be ok with the idea that we are all born equal because they don't want to admit they were born with a silver spoon in their mouths.

What they believe in is every man for himself and survival of the fittest. So if the weak parrish, so be it. That's what happens in free unregulated markets/societies. Like the caraboo being stalked by the wolves. Its every caraboo for himself. They don't turn around and protect the weak caraboo. They just keep moving.

Democrats like safety nets. No one I know hates their social security and medicare.
I, for one, believe that all people are born equal under the law. Only an idiot would believe that all are born equal in any other regard.

I also believe that individuals acting in their own economic self interests further our economic growth, and control the availability of goods and services far better than any bureaucrat is capable of doing. If government controlled the food supply, most people would be starving, while standing in line hoping for a little bit of meat with their allotted loaf of bread.

And, I believe that most modern day liberal/socialists are scared to death of real life, and absolutely sure that they will fail if left to their own resources. They desire a nanny state to replace the security provided by their doting parents.
What about giving poor inner city kids an equal education to the rich kids in the suburbs? That can only be done if the rich and middle class pay a little more to help out the poor schools. That's how its always been done. The GOP want to defund public schools and hey, their kids can go to private schools so fuck the rest of us. Survival of the fittest. And not eveyone is equal in Ron Paul's world. Money rules. Not We the People.
So, you figure that more money for inter city schools will give those inter city children the same education as the rich kids in the suburbs? More disturbing yet, is your idea that the children in the sububs are rich kids. Obviously, you don't just drink the kool-aid, you swill it.

Every child in America deserves the best education possible, and it should be the duty of our public school officials to see that they get it. If that "best education possible" is in a public school, great. If that "best education possible" is in a private school, then that is where that child should be. Public education funding should follow every child to the "best education possible", whether it be in a public school or a private school.

We pay education taxes to educate our children, not to provide good paying jobs for poor school teachers.
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  #460 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2012, 09:28 PM
common sense..what's THAT
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Quote: Originally Posted by sealybobo View Post
I could never be a Republican because they don't think this is hot.

https://mail-attachment.googleuserco...FN6n1r8l_bKvck

Michelle Obama is hot!
Having a woman crush are we?...
What the fuck does Mrs. Obama have to do with anything?
BTW, she's NOT at all attractive. Especially when she is caught pointing her finger and scowling at the people to whom she is speaking.
Hot?....You mean....Under the collar.
You are one stupid little girl
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  #461 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2012, 09:52 PM
common sense..what's THAT
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Quote: Originally Posted by sealybobo View Post
Republcan policies will produce a small but powerful wealthy class, a small "middle" mercantilist class, and a huge and terrified worker class. When cons say let the market decide, what they really mean is stop government from defending workers and the middle class and let the corporations decide how much to pay for labor and how much to trade with china and india. Their way has not worked for the American middle class.

But republicans say the government is the problem. Only problem with that is that the middle class is the creation of government intervention in the marketplace, and won't exist without it. Labor laws, minimum wage, unions, etc.

If you want to play the game of business in the US you have to play in a way that both makes you money AND serves the public interest. Manufacturing in China and outsourcing to India does not serve the publics interest. But remember you said it would? You said as consumers we would save money. But who cares? We want good jobs, not cheap goods.

The big American middle class is the invention of liberal democracies, the New Deal, labor laws, minimum wage. It is the result of government regulation of markets and tax and labor laws.

When government sets the rules of the game of business in such a way that workers benefit too, a
middle class will emerge. When government gives up these functions, the middle class disappears, as we saw happening under Bush. It actually started with Reagan.

Only a return to We The People again setting and enforcing the rules of the game of business - will reverse this dangerous trend. We've done it before, with tariffs, anti-trust legislation, and worker protections ranging from enforcing the rights of organized labor to restricting American companies' access to cheap foreign labor through visas and tariffs. The result was the production of something never before seen in history: a strong and vibrant middle class.
Businesses are not required nor should they "serve the public interest" . That is the job of the public sector. Public service.
Private business operates to turn a profit for it's owners and/or investors.
As a business person, I owe you NOTHING.
New Deal did not create anything. The New Deal and all other social programs took money from those that earned it and transferred it to those who did not.
We still have that today. Redistribution. Obama's stimulus which was sold as a means to stimulate the economy. It did not. Obama sold it as "new" money. It was not. The stimulus was redistribution. Obama said the stimulus would go to shovel ready projects and get the private sector to hire again. There were no shovel ready projects and most of the stimulus money went to unions and to delay the inevitable layoff of public employees. And some states used the money to pay off debt. The stimulus like all other government projects, was a big lie. At the end of the day all of this just added to the already crushing debt.
Ya know who or what makes the middle class thrive? PEOPLE do.. We do. Not business. Not government. Not programs. Not some giveaway.
PEOPLE.....The sooner you realize that it is the individuals of this nation that bring us greatness, the better.
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  #462 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2012, 08:17 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by sealybobo View Post
The every man for himself way is the GOP way. Even Ron Paul. The Democratic way is that we are all in this together.
That's what every leach and useless tic on the ass of society says.

Quote: Originally Posted by sealybobo View Post
For example, us liberals and most Americans agree that government should invest in schools. But since Reagan, we have stopped. And now the cost of college is out of control.
All that shows is that liberals have managed to dupe the majority of Americans.

Quote: Originally Posted by sealybobo View Post
And your "keep governments hands off my healthcare" attitude allowed the cost of healthcare to get out of control.
Government is driving the cost of healthcare up, not the private market.

Quote: Originally Posted by sealybobo View Post
And allowing oil speculators on Wallstreet add $12-$20 per fill up on to the cost of gas???
ROFL! Everyone already correcly assigned the blame to Obama for that.

Quote: Originally Posted by sealybobo View Post
This is what your free markets will produce. A small rich ruling class, a small merchantile class and a big working poor class.
That's Marxism, you stupid turd.

Quote: Originally Posted by sealybobo View Post
In a May 25, 2001 interview, Grover Norquist told National Public Radio's Mara Liasson, "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub."
One of the smartest things he ever said.
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  #463 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2012, 08:55 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Crackerjack View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by sealybobo View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Crackerjack View Post
How else would we know that he viamently [sic] disagrees with anyone who doesn't share his delusions if he didn't start a thread about it?
I love it that you righties can swallow Bush's, Roves, Rush's, Fox's, Mitt and Ron Paul's seamen but then you are shocked when we defend the Democratic party just as strongly as you defend the GOP.
I don't think you're crazy. I think you're stupid. I agreed with almost nothing Bush or Rove did. I haven't watched FOX News or listened to Rush Limbaugh in years. I'm not voting for Mitt in November. I'm not a member nor a supporter of the GOP, and I have only defended them to the extent of pointing out certain idiotic comments dipshits like you make on a regular basis.
Quote: Originally Posted by sealybobo View Post
And you don't realize I think you are just as batshit crazy as you think I am. And you are going to see in November more people agree with me. Watch. This aint no midterm stupid.
Argumentum ad populum. Google it.
Absolutely shocking that sealybuttfuck hasn't returned to this.
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  #464 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2012, 08:23 PM
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sealybobo could be State Governor sealybobo could be State Governor sealybobo could be State Governor sealybobo could be State Governor sealybobo could be State Governor sealybobo could be State Governor sealybobo could be State Governor sealybobo could be State Governor sealybobo could be State Governor sealybobo could be State Governor
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Quote: Originally Posted by Crackerjack View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by sealybobo View Post

[/I] Google it.
Absolutely shocking that sealybuttfuck hasn't returned to this.
AlterNet: Why Is the Conservative Brain More Fearful? The Alternate Reality Right-Wingers Inhabit Is Terrifying

Consider for a moment just how terrifying it must be to live life as a true believer on the right. ...people who watch Glenn Beck, listen to Rush Limbaugh, or think Michele Bachmann isn't a joke....

Research suggests that conservatives are, on average, more susceptible to fear than those who identify themselves as liberals.

Mooney concludes that this “new research suggests [that] conservatism is largely a defensive ideology --But those cognitive biases are only part of the story

Consider, then, what it must be like to be a true-blue Rush Limbaugh fan, or someone who thinks Michele Bachmann is a serious lawmaker with a grasp of the issues – put yourself into that person's shoes for a moment, and consider what a nightmarish landscape the world around them must represent:

The White House has been usurped by a Kenyan socialist named Barry Soetero, who hatched an elaborate plot to pass himself off as a citizen of the United States. This president doesn't just claim the right to assassinate suspected terrorists who are beyond the reach of law enforcement – he may be planning on rounding up his ideological opponents and putting them into concentration camps if he is reelected. He may have murdered a blogger who was critical of his administration, but authorities refuse to investigate. At the very least, he is plotting on disarming the American public after the election, in accordance with a secret deal cut with the UN and possibly with the assistance of foreign troops.
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  #465 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2012, 08:31 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by sealybobo View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by crackerjack View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by crackerjack View Post
absolutely shocking that sealybuttfuck hasn't returned to this.
alternet: Why is the conservative brain more fearful? The alternate reality right-wingers inhabit is terrifying

consider for a moment just how terrifying it must be to live life as a true believer on the right. ...people who watch glenn beck, listen to rush limbaugh, or think michele bachmann isn't a joke....

Research suggests that conservatives are, on average, more susceptible to fear than those who identify themselves as liberals.

Mooney concludes that this “new research suggests [that] conservatism is largely a defensive ideology --but those cognitive biases are only part of the story

consider, then, what it must be like to be a true-blue rush limbaugh fan, or someone who thinks michele bachmann is a serious lawmaker with a grasp of the issues – put yourself into that person's shoes for a moment, and consider what a nightmarish landscape the world around them must represent:

The white house has been usurped by a kenyan socialist named barry soetero, who hatched an elaborate plot to pass himself off as a citizen of the united states. This president doesn't just claim the right to assassinate suspected terrorists who are beyond the reach of law enforcement – he may be planning on rounding up his ideological opponents and putting them into concentration camps if he is reelected. He may have murdered a blogger who was critical of his administration, but authorities refuse to investigate. At the very least, he is plotting on disarming the american public after the election, in accordance with a secret deal cut with the un and possibly with the assistance of foreign troops.
Earth to dipshit:

Libertarian ≠ Conservative
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