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Why we want stimulus now and worry about deficits later

This is a discussion on Why we want stimulus now and worry about deficits later within the Politics forums, part of the US Discussion category; Quote: Originally Posted by saveliberty Quote: Originally Posted by ilia25 Quote: Originally Posted by saveliberty Meanwhile, 48 percent of those not hiring said it was ...


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  #361 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2012, 03:17 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by saveliberty View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by ilia25 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by saveliberty View Post


Meanwhile, 48 percent of those not hiring said it was due to concerns about possible rising health care costs, while 46 percent said they were worried about new government regulations.

“The debate over why U.S. small-business owners aren’t hiring more aggressively tends to hinge on whether overall business conditions, including a lack of growth and revenue, are the primary culprit as opposed to the potential cost of healthcare and government regulations. Apparently, both sides of the debate are correct,” Gallup said.

Read more: Poll: Small-business owners fear economic situation - MJ Lee - POLITICO.com
Isn't that what I said -- a single most important reason is the lack of demand -- not the taxes or regulations?

As for the health care costs, they too can only tilt the balance if the sales are slow. So, again, the sufficient demand would be reason enough to expand even in the face of the rising taxes, or health costs.
No its not what you said at all. You think government spending will solve all of this. It is only a small minority of companies which can get a government contract.
It does not matter who can get the contract. If the government creates a enough of additional demand (by spending enough), then the companies will hire enough workers to satisfy that demand. And those new workers will start spending as well, creating jobs in small business and everywhere else.

And we have more than enough shovel-ready projects, from building more f-22s to hiring back the laid-off teachers.
Last edited by ilia25; 02-21-2012 at 03:19 PM.
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  #362 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2012, 03:22 PM
common sense..what's THAT
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Quote: Originally Posted by Cammmpbell View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by saveliberty View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by ilia25 View Post

Isn't that what I said -- a single most important reason is the lack of demand -- not the taxes or regulations?

As for the health care costs, they too can only tilt the balance if the sales are slow. So, again, the sufficient demand would be reason enough to expand even in the face of the rising taxes, or health costs.
No its not what you said at all. You think government spending will solve all of this. It is only a small minority of companies which can get a government contract. Small business will lead the employment charge. Most, if not all are exempt from working with the government. Demand will change when there is more employment at a higher wage rate. Obama's plans have proven failures in thsi area. Oh, and by the way, early indicators for February are 8.8% unemployment.
You're projecting that the U S unemployment rate will jump from 8.3% to 8.8% in one month.....a short month at that
That's U-3. The rate the feds ram down the throats of the unsuspecting public.
The real rate ( U-6) which counts all able bodied people not working is over 15%.
Portal Seven | U6 Unemployment Rate
As the U-6 chart indicates, unemployment has not decreased to a significant degree.
This does not bode well for Obama.
Government policies can only hinder the private sector. That is what is occurring now.
That stimulus money was a total waste.
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  #363 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2012, 03:25 PM
common sense..what's THAT
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Quote: Originally Posted by ilia25 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by saveliberty View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by ilia25 View Post

Isn't that what I said -- a single most important reason is the lack of demand -- not the taxes or regulations?

As for the health care costs, they too can only tilt the balance if the sales are slow. So, again, the sufficient demand would be reason enough to expand even in the face of the rising taxes, or health costs.
No its not what you said at all. You think government spending will solve all of this. It is only a small minority of companies which can get a government contract.
It does not matter who can get the contract. If the government creates a enough of additional demand (by spending enough), then the companies will hire enough workers to satisfy that demand. And those new workers will start spending as well, creating jobs in small business and everywhere else.

And we have more than enough shovel-ready projects, from building more f-22s to hiring back the laid-off teachers.
Government spending DRAINS money from the economy. Period.
Shovel ready projects? Are you on crack. Even Obama himself said those projects did not materialize. Since most road projects are funded by government, one has to wonder if these projects did not materialize, just what the fuck happened to OUR money....
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  #364 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2012, 03:28 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ilia25 View Post

It does not matter who can get the contract. If the government creates a enough of additional demand (by spending enough), then the companies will hire enough workers to satisfy that demand. And those new workers will start spending as well, creating jobs in small business and everywhere else.

And we have more than enough shovel-ready projects, from building more f-22s to hiring back the laid-off teachers.
Yes, it does matter who gets the contract. Most companies have just gotten more productivity out of existing employees, but dream on. We don't have shovel ready projects, even Obama admits that. The Defense Department is taking hits on the budget, no F22s for you. Of course, it isn't possible anyways.

Defense Review - F-22 Raptor Program Cancellation: Will we learn from it?

Your detachment from reality is amazing.
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  #365 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2012, 03:30 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by thereisnospoon View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by ilia25 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by saveliberty View Post

No its not what you said at all. You think government spending will solve all of this. It is only a small minority of companies which can get a government contract.
It does not matter who can get the contract. If the government creates a enough of additional demand (by spending enough), then the companies will hire enough workers to satisfy that demand. And those new workers will start spending as well, creating jobs in small business and everywhere else.

And we have more than enough shovel-ready projects, from building more f-22s to hiring back the laid-off teachers.
Government spending DRAINS money from the economy. Period.
.
That's one fact that they neo-Keynesian voodoo practitioners refuse to wrap their heads around....The actually do believe that breaking windows magically creates jobs.
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  #366 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2012, 03:34 PM
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ilia's shotgun approach to government spending is terrible. Just throw money all over and it will fix everything. Spend money on fighter aircraft that have been cancelled? Rehire laid off teachers? Why? So we can give the schools more money next year to pay for the teacher they can't afford? But remember, ilia says this is just "temporary".
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  #367 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2012, 03:44 PM
common sense..what's THAT
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Quote: Originally Posted by ilia25 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by saveliberty View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by ilia25 View Post

Isn't that what I said -- a single most important reason is the lack of demand -- not the taxes or regulations?

As for the health care costs, they too can only tilt the balance if the sales are slow. So, again, the sufficient demand would be reason enough to expand even in the face of the rising taxes, or health costs.
No its not what you said at all. You think government spending will solve all of this. It is only a small minority of companies which can get a government contract.
It does not matter who can get the contract. If the government creates a enough of additional demand (by spending enough), then the companies will hire enough workers to satisfy that demand. And those new workers will start spending as well, creating jobs in small business and everywhere else.

And we have more than enough shovel-ready projects, from building more f-22s to hiring back the laid-off teachers.
I have a question..How ( in your own words) does government create more demand?
And don't answer with " by spending more money"...That is not an answer.
BTW, the federal government HAS NO MONEY TO SPEND...
The first thing that the federal government must do is stop ALL automatic yearly budget increases. Next, it must end baseline budgeting.
Oh...The aircraft? The Obama admin just cancelled orders for the majority of the F-35 fighter.
Ottawa's F-35 price-tag could skyrocket if Washington scraps purchase - The Globe and Mail
Here is a tragic story. This is how your precious federal government bureaucrats along with do nothing development engineers at these defense contractors do their "work"...
Kind of makes one sick to read this shit.
Defense Review - F-22 Raptor Program Cancellation: Will we learn from it?
So please, don't give us this nonsense about "only if the government could raise taxes to spend money on this and that to get the economy rolling"....
"We're the federal government. Please just gives us one more chance. We promise not to screw the pooch THIS time".
Like the overly tipsy customer at the local gin mill who says "one more please" , our response to that is "sorry ,you're cut off".
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  #368 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2012, 03:46 PM
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starcraftzzz is off the scalestarcraftzzz is off the scale
starcraftzzz is off the scalestarcraftzzz is off the scalestarcraftzzz is off the scalestarcraftzzz is off the scalestarcraftzzz is off the scalestarcraftzzz is off the scalestarcraftzzz is off the scalestarcraftzzz is off the scalestarcraftzzz is off the scalestarcraftzzz is off the scalestarcraftzzz is off the scale
Quote: Originally Posted by thereisnospoon View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by ilia25 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by saveliberty View Post

No its not what you said at all. You think government spending will solve all of this. It is only a small minority of companies which can get a government contract.
It does not matter who can get the contract. If the government creates a enough of additional demand (by spending enough), then the companies will hire enough workers to satisfy that demand. And those new workers will start spending as well, creating jobs in small business and everywhere else.

And we have more than enough shovel-ready projects, from building more f-22s to hiring back the laid-off teachers.
Government spending DRAINS money from the economy.
That is only true if you are clueless idiot whose missed the past 100 years of history
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  #369 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2012, 03:47 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by thereisnospoon View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by NYcarbineer View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by thereisnospoon View Post
Government spending with a purpose on national defense is Constitutionally mandated.
It was hire the defense contractors or be over run by the Japanese Empire or Germany.
Again, it was not until the early 50's the US economy actually began to grow at substantial and sustainable rates. WHY? Because the private sector was doing the heavy lifting.
Government spending which needs tax increases in order to be funded, removes cash from the economy and that cash never returns 100%. In fact, more times than not government spending results in a negative return to the taxpayers.
There is absoutely nothing in the Constitution that mandates how much we have to spend on defense.

And nothing you said refutes my point.
Dude.....Shut it.
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We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
The authority given the federal government to provide for the common defense is broad.
Your argument is specious.
And where in that is the amount mandated?
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Old 02-21-2012, 03:49 PM
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starcraftzzz is off the scalestarcraftzzz is off the scale
starcraftzzz is off the scalestarcraftzzz is off the scalestarcraftzzz is off the scalestarcraftzzz is off the scalestarcraftzzz is off the scalestarcraftzzz is off the scalestarcraftzzz is off the scalestarcraftzzz is off the scalestarcraftzzz is off the scalestarcraftzzz is off the scalestarcraftzzz is off the scale
[quote=thereisnospoon;4848819]
Quote: Originally Posted by ilia25 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by saveliberty View Post

No its not what you said at all. You think government spending will solve all of this. It is only a small minority of companies which can get a government contract.
It does not matter who can get the contract. If the government creates a enough of additional demand (by spending enough), then the companies will hire enough workers to satisfy that demand. And those new workers will start spending as well, creating jobs in small business and everywhere else.

And we have more than enough shovel-ready projects, from building more f-22s to hiring back the laid-off teachers.
I have a question..How ( in your own words) does government create more demand?
And don't answer with " by spending more money"...That is not an answer.
It is to an answer you're just upset because like always you are clueless and getting owned in a debate

Quote: Originally Posted by thereisnospoon View Post
BTW, the federal government HAS NO MONEY TO SPEND...
.
I see so according to you the government hasn't spent dime in the past 12 months; so basically yoa are a dumbass
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  #371 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2012, 03:49 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by saveliberty View Post
ilia's shotgun approach to government spending is terrible. Just throw money all over and it will fix everything. Spend money on fighter aircraft that have been cancelled? Rehire laid off teachers? Why? So we can give the schools more money next year to pay for the teacher they can't afford? But remember, ilia says this is just "temporary".
One thing we know for sure. Any Republican worth their salt would rather take one up the arse than to cut a dime from the defense budget. We have hand held robots and remote controlled planes over Pakistan being flown from Denver and sniper's rifles so big that they have to be hauled to the site. We spend billions on planes which never get into the air and amphibious vehicles which sink while being tested. Dwight Eisenhower warned about this shit over 50 years ago and our politicians ignored his words of wisdom and screwed it up anyway.
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  #372 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2012, 03:49 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by starcraftzzz View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by thereisnospoon View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by ilia25 View Post

It does not matter who can get the contract. If the government creates a enough of additional demand (by spending enough), then the companies will hire enough workers to satisfy that demand. And those new workers will start spending as well, creating jobs in small business and everywhere else.

And we have more than enough shovel-ready projects, from building more f-22s to hiring back the laid-off teachers.
Government spending DRAINS money from the economy.
That is only true if you are clueless idiot whose missed the past 100 years of history
Why don't you run us off a list of things manufactured by the government idiot.
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Old 02-21-2012, 03:51 PM
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Immanuel could successfully start his own religionImmanuel could successfully start his own religionImmanuel could successfully start his own religionImmanuel could successfully start his own religionImmanuel could successfully start his own religionImmanuel could successfully start his own religionImmanuel could successfully start his own religionImmanuel could successfully start his own religionImmanuel could successfully start his own religionImmanuel could successfully start his own religionImmanuel could successfully start his own religionImmanuel could successfully start his own religionImmanuel could successfully start his own religionImmanuel could successfully start his own religionImmanuel could successfully start his own religion
Quote: Originally Posted by saveliberty View Post
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Quote: Originally Posted by thereisnospoon View Post

Government spending DRAINS money from the economy.
That is only true if you are clueless idiot whose missed the past 100 years of history
Why don't you run us off a list of things manufactured by the government idiot.
I'll take a stab at that... bullshit? Corruption?

Immie
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  #374 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2012, 03:52 PM
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saveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religion
saveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religionsaveliberty could successfully start his own religion
Quote: Originally Posted by Cammmpbell View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by saveliberty View Post
ilia's shotgun approach to government spending is terrible. Just throw money all over and it will fix everything. Spend money on fighter aircraft that have been cancelled? Rehire laid off teachers? Why? So we can give the schools more money next year to pay for the teacher they can't afford? But remember, ilia says this is just "temporary".
One thing we know for sure. Any Republican worth their salt would rather take one up the arse than to cut a dime from the defense budget. We have hand held robots and remote controlled planes over Pakistan being flown from Denver and sniper's rifles so big that they have to be hauled to the site. We spend billions on planes which never get into the air and amphibious vehicles which sink while being tested. Dwight Eisenhower warned about this shit over 50 years ago and our politicians ignored his words of wisdom and screwed it up anyway.
Well Crampedcell, you'd have to ask a Republican I guess. I'm a conservative. Personally cutting defense spending is a good idea. How much is the debate with me. Btw, your collegue was suggesting MORE defense spending.
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  #375 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2012, 04:04 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by thereisnospoon View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by ilia25 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by saveliberty View Post

No its not what you said at all. You think government spending will solve all of this. It is only a small minority of companies which can get a government contract.
It does not matter who can get the contract. If the government creates a enough of additional demand (by spending enough), then the companies will hire enough workers to satisfy that demand. And those new workers will start spending as well, creating jobs in small business and everywhere else.

And we have more than enough shovel-ready projects, from building more f-22s to hiring back the laid-off teachers.
I have a question..How ( in your own words) does government create more demand?
By borrowing the idle cash in the private sector (idle means the owners neither want to spend it, nor invest it), and use it to place orders for f-22s and hire teachers.

I tell you what should make you sick -- the fact that we have millions of willing and able workers that are sitting idle in misery for years. And the fact that we can make them employed and getting better living by ordering more F-22s (which are damn good planes, BTW).

That is what should make you sick.
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