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Federal raid on Gibson Guitars....retaliatory harassment?

This is a discussion on Federal raid on Gibson Guitars....retaliatory harassment? within the Politics forums, part of the US Discussion category; Quote: Originally Posted by Steelplate Yeah... this is a bullshit story. I also own a Martin D35. Mine is a newer one made out of ...


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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2011, 02:28 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Steelplate View Post
Yeah... this is a bullshit story. I also own a Martin D35. Mine is a newer one made out of East Indian Rosewood, but... Brand new Brazilian rosewood guitars are still available for purchase(using old stock that has already been purchased before the ban was implemented)....And I am pretty involved in the guitar scene and I've never heard anything about people's vintage guitars being confiscated.

What are they going to do? Plant the guitar into the ground and hope that a tree pops up?

Did anyone EVER think that perhaps the Fish and Wildlife Service got a tip that Gibson was using illegal wood? People... I love guitars...I have a terminal case of GAS(Guitar Acquisition Syndrome) that only my finances can temper.

This is simply a continuation of the paranoia from the far right. Just like the NRA screaming "They're coming to take your guns!!!". It's bullshit.
Um no...this story is also on Boston Globe, the Wall Street Journal and others.
It is a legit story. It happened.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2011, 02:32 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by PixieStix View Post
This happened 2 years ago as well. No charges were ever filed.

Gibson Guitar Corp. Responds to Federal Raid - YouTube

This is outrageous!!!
Now I have the flinstone version of a computer and last youtube I tried to upload you could see smoke rising from the monitor.

Could you please give me an idea what its about?

This is really sticking in my craw. I don't like this one bit. What's that phrase? By the pricking in my thumbs something wicked this way comes.

Yeah that's it.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2011, 02:38 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by tinydancer View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by PixieStix View Post
This happened 2 years ago as well. No charges were ever filed.

Gibson Guitar Corp. Responds to Federal Raid - YouTube

This is outrageous!!!
Now I have the flinstone version of a computer and last youtube I tried to upload you could see smoke rising from the monitor.

Could you please give me an idea what its about?

This is really sticking in my craw. I don't like this one bit. What's that phrase? By the pricking in my thumbs something wicked this way comes.

Yeah that's it.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2011, 02:52 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by tinydancer View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Steelplate View Post
Yeah... this is a bullshit story. I also own a Martin D35. Mine is a newer one made out of East Indian Rosewood, but... Brand new Brazilian rosewood guitars are still available for purchase(using old stock that has already been purchased before the ban was implemented)....And I am pretty involved in the guitar scene and I've never heard anything about people's vintage guitars being confiscated.

What are they going to do? Plant the guitar into the ground and hope that a tree pops up?

Did anyone EVER think that perhaps the Fish and Wildlife Service got a tip that Gibson was using illegal wood? People... I love guitars...I have a terminal case of GAS(Guitar Acquisition Syndrome) that only my finances can temper.

This is simply a continuation of the paranoia from the far right. Just like the NRA screaming "They're coming to take your guns!!!". It's bullshit.
What year?

My ex and my Martin we're talking the early 70's but we're talking downchild and rush up yonge street.

I think you are a liar.
WTF? A liar? Fuck you. My D35 is a 2004. I bought it when my mother passed away. I used a some of my inheritance to have something for myself, as the rest went to pay bills. I got it customized with my mom's full name on the 12th fret and her year of birth/death on the 13th. I also had the Fishman Prefix Premium electronics installed from factory. I play rhythm guitar and sing in an acoustic blues Trio. I've been playing since I was 12 and I'm now 46. I don't need to lie about anything on a message board you asshole.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2011, 02:57 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by tinydancer View Post
Wait a minute here.

You are involved in the "guitar scene"

Holy shit are you in music or not? What the fuck here? I'm the real deal. What type of shit are you? Prove yourself now.
You're the "real Deal"? What the fuck does that mean? Prove myself NOW? Who the fuck are you? Guess what.... most working musicians also have to Work a real job too.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2011, 03:16 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Steelplate View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by tinydancer View Post
Wait a minute here.

You are involved in the "guitar scene"

Holy shit are you in music or not? What the fuck here? I'm the real deal. What type of shit are you? Prove yourself now.
You're the "real Deal"? What the fuck does that mean? Prove myself NOW? Who the fuck are you? Guess what.... most working musicians also have to Work a real job too.
Very strange phrasing sir.

Why wouldn't you just come out and say you're a player? My ex and I earned a gold, platinum, double platinum and a Juno with our promotion company. He's the player not me. I did the promo. I used to track airplay for record companies as well as organize promotional events. And managed bands.

I am the real deal. Sorry but your phrasing was truly bizarre. And btw, that's very nice what you did for your mother.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2011, 03:21 PM
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2011, 05:01 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Steelplate View Post
Yeah... this is a bullshit story. I also own a Martin D35. Mine is a newer one made out of East Indian Rosewood, but... Brand new Brazilian rosewood guitars are still available for purchase(using old stock that has already been purchased before the ban was implemented)....And I am pretty involved in the guitar scene and I've never heard anything about people's vintage guitars being confiscated.

What are they going to do? Plant the guitar into the ground and hope that a tree pops up?

Did anyone EVER think that perhaps the Fish and Wildlife Service got a tip that Gibson was using illegal wood? People... I love guitars...I have a terminal case of GAS(Guitar Acquisition Syndrome) that only my finances can temper.

This is simply a continuation of the paranoia from the far right. Just like the NRA screaming "They're coming to take your guns!!!". It's bullshit.
Why did I think I'd see you here on the Gibson thread, Steelplate?
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2011, 05:04 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by tinydancer View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Steelplate View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by tinydancer View Post
Wait a minute here.

You are involved in the "guitar scene"

Holy shit are you in music or not? What the fuck here? I'm the real deal. What type of shit are you? Prove yourself now.
You're the "real Deal"? What the fuck does that mean? Prove myself NOW? Who the fuck are you? Guess what.... most working musicians also have to Work a real job too.
Very strange phrasing sir.

Why wouldn't you just come out and say you're a player? My ex and I earned a gold, platinum, double platinum and a Juno with our promotion company. He's the player not me. I did the promo. I used to track airplay for record companies as well as organize promotional events. And managed bands.

I am the real deal. Sorry but your phrasing was truly bizarre. And btw, that's very nice what you did for your mother.
Congratulations on your stellar career, tinydancer. It sounds like you're one of the best in the industry.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2011, 05:07 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by iamwhatiseem View Post
have not returned nor given Gibson officials a statement or explanation as to what reason,
Wrong, the Feds announced they were there because of suspicion that Gibson was using illegally imported wood from India.

I do Still think this raid was pure BS, and Retaliation, but I do like to see the facts laid out right. They clearly did tell Gibson why they were there.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2011, 05:08 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Avatar4321 View Post
The administration raids a guitar company, seizes inventory, and doesn't provide documentation why, but conservatives are just being paranoid. Is that the jist of what I'm hearing?

Is there anything this administration can do that cause people to open their eyes?
I'm sorry to hear it too.

It's unfortunate businesses aren't given incentives to improve or correct errors but instead get the criminal treatment.

Things could be just as effective with incentives instead of expropriations.

But what would I know?
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2011, 06:59 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by freedombecki View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by tinydancer View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Steelplate View Post

You're the "real Deal"? What the fuck does that mean? Prove myself NOW? Who the fuck are you? Guess what.... most working musicians also have to Work a real job too.
Very strange phrasing sir.

Why wouldn't you just come out and say you're a player? My ex and I earned a gold, platinum, double platinum and a Juno with our promotion company. He's the player not me. I did the promo. I used to track airplay for record companies as well as organize promotional events. And managed bands.

I am the real deal. Sorry but your phrasing was truly bizarre. And btw, that's very nice what you did for your mother.
Congratulations on your stellar career, tinydancer. It sounds like you're one of the best in the industry.
lol

In my time, I think I was one of the best

Phone calls coast to coast to AM and FM depending on who I was handling. Bell Canada was really profitable at the time. Heheheh. Their share holders owe me.

No email. Can you imagine?

Letters on PAPER and yes I am so sorry I probably took out a couple of rain forests.

A telex machine in my dining room to see everybodys playlists for the week. Telex was pre fax machine.

Telling my eldest daughter not to cry because I was on the phone to Flin Flon and I'll put a bandaid on her boo boo in a minute.

I was a different kind of stay at home mom.



Where's my walker? Keeeeeeeding. Still can rock my face off.
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:21 PM
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I think the thing being lost on most people about this story is. Why the hell is the wood from India illegal to Import? Regulations? Maybe Gibson should open a factory in India and make the Instruments they want to out of that wood there? lol I mean silly regulations like this are one of the reasons Companies move jobs over seas.

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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2011, 06:24 AM
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Because Gibson supposedly violated Indian law that only Indian workers are allowed to finish the rosewood fret boards that are being exported. Nice how Eric Holder and "Team Obama" work so hard to protect bogus rights of Indian workers while they put Americans out of work.
Okay...but that is NOT retaliation, however.

A stupid law, perhaps, but your use of the word retaliation suggested that enhforcement of this stupid law is payback for some grievance.

Thanks for replying though and clearing that up for me.
I have no idea "why" this raid took place. Neither does the President of Gibson. Bottom line is the Feds swooped in and seized private property valued at over a million dollars and sent the workers at this factory home and then didn't charge anyone with a crime. At the same time they're asking for a "stay" on a court case from two years earlier where they did the same thing to Gibson. Eric Holder is a world class horses ass. Of course that shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone since he was the guy behind the Marc Rich pardon by Bill Clinton. That alone should have precluded him from ever holding a high level post in government.
Understood. YOu do not know why the raid took place.

That's why I questioned the use of the word RETALIANTION.

Retaliation implies there was a motive.

What we do know is that the wood in use was some kind of violation of a TRADE AGREEMENT.

THAT would be the motive, I guess.

Sounds like a screwy law to me, too.

But then the US industry is constantly being screwed by such goofy laws, isn't it?

That's why the US TRADE IMBALANCE is so high.

That is why million of Americans can't find decent paying work, too.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2011, 06:41 AM
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Interesting. Even though they have been raided before, no charges have ever been laid and Gibson is actually suing the government to retrieve material seized in another raid a couple of years ago.

Can you imagine an overzealous custom official seizing a musician's guitar?

Great piece of this situation by Bob Barr. And he explains the 100 year old law.

One of the laws at play here is the hundred-year old Lacey Act, passed during the “Progressive Era,” and intended to promote conservation and as a crackdown on illegal trafficking in wildlife. The law also makes it a crime for a company to violate the laws or regulations of other countries. In this particular case, Gibson’s attorneys surmise it may be the law of India they are charged with misinterpreting or violating.

The Justice Department apparently believes the wood in question, used to construct fret boards for Gibson’s popular instruments, was imported from India without having first been “finished” by Indian workers; actions that could be considered a violation of that country’s byzantine legal code.


But here's the strange part. No charges have ever been laid. And the government still refuses to return the property. Retaliation for the lawsuit brought by Gibson? Intimidation? Vindictiveness? Harassment?

From the article:

Unfortunately, this is not the first time Gibson has been subjected to the overreaching, punitive arm of the federal government. In 2009, the Nashville facility was raided in similar fashion, based on accusations that rosewood imported from Madagascar and used in guitars, came from illegal logging.

And, despite the fact that to this day, the government has not filed formal charges against Gibson, it has refused to return the company’s property.



Here's the link to the whole piece.

Gibson Guitar to Uncle Sam



And this is really crazy check out the quote from the WSJ

The Wall Street Journal notes that owners of vintage guitars made out of now-banned or regulated woods had “better have correct and complete documentation proving the age of the instrument. Otherwise, you could lose it to a zealous customs agent – not to mention face fines and prosecution.”
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With our heads in the clouds
Just a little off course
But I left that motor runnin'
Now if you're feelin' down and out

Come on baby drive
Come on baby drive South
With the one you love
Credit: the remarkable John Hiatt
[/I][/B]
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