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"GOP No Longer a 'Normal' Party" - David Brooks

This is a discussion on "GOP No Longer a 'Normal' Party" - David Brooks within the Politics forums, part of the US Discussion category; Quote: Originally Posted by uscitizen This entire thread is based on the incorrect premise that the Republican party was once normal. So true, consider that ...


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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2011, 01:06 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by uscitizen View Post
This entire thread is based on the incorrect premise that the Republican party was once normal.
So true, consider that they have failed since Hoover badly, but single issues control many voters and taxes, aka greed and stupidity, are a big sticking point when it comes to supporting the nation. Brooks is right but late, he is right 90 years past when money bought the republican party. He missed the changes until stupidity grew so obvious republicans are drowning in it, and lo and behold his eyes opened.

"The truth is, the current incarnation of the GOP, frozen in its pose of perpetually indignant outrage, doesn’t want additional perspective, more data and nuance, and — Heaven forbid — dissenting voices. The impulse to marginalize, condemn, ridicule, and finally choke off dissenting voices is not only what’s behind Senator Coburn’s war on the NSF, it’s behind the GOP-sponsored culture war that has sucked much of the oxygen out of the national discourse for more than a decade now. ¶ Republicans don’t like science and scientists because they are sources of data that are independent of GOP-approved propaganda mills like Fox News. Pesky scientists and academics are always popping up to dispute the Roger Ailes-approved buzz-quote of the day — on climate change, on health care, on the effects of poverty on the rapidly evaporating middle class, on the diversity of American families, and on the importance of funding basic research instead of commercially-driven ventures constrained by short-term considerations like ROI." Steve Silberman Why the GOP Hates the National Science Foundation | NeuroTribes
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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2011, 01:15 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by midcan5 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by uscitizen View Post
This entire thread is based on the incorrect premise that the Republican party was once normal.
So true, consider that they have failed since Hoover badly, but single issues control many voters and taxes, aka greed and stupidity, are a big sticking point when it comes to supporting the nation. Brooks is right but late, he is right 90 years past when money bought the republican party. He missed the changes until stupidity grew so obvious republicans are drowning in it, and lo and behold his eyes opened.

"The truth is, the current incarnation of the GOP, frozen in its pose of perpetually indignant outrage, doesn’t want additional perspective, more data and nuance, and — Heaven forbid — dissenting voices. The impulse to marginalize, condemn, ridicule, and finally choke off dissenting voices is not only what’s behind Senator Coburn’s war on the NSF, it’s behind the GOP-sponsored culture war that has sucked much of the oxygen out of the national discourse for more than a decade now. ¶ Republicans don’t like science and scientists because they are sources of data that are independent of GOP-approved propaganda mills like Fox News. Pesky scientists and academics are always popping up to dispute the Roger Ailes-approved buzz-quote of the day — on climate change, on health care, on the effects of poverty on the rapidly evaporating middle class, on the diversity of American families, and on the importance of funding basic research instead of commercially-driven ventures constrained by short-term considerations like ROI." Steve Silberman Why the GOP Hates the National Science Foundation | NeuroTribes
LOL, that was some spew from some place called, NeuroTribes...
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2011, 01:19 PM
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Old 07-07-2011, 01:20 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by midcan5 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by uscitizen View Post
This entire thread is based on the incorrect premise that the Republican party was once normal.
So true, consider that they have failed since Hoover badly, but single issues control many voters and taxes, aka greed and stupidity, are a big sticking point when it comes to supporting the nation. Brooks is right but late, he is right 90 years past when money bought the republican party. He missed the changes until stupidity grew so obvious republicans are drowning in it, and lo and behold his eyes opened.

"The truth is, the current incarnation of the GOP, frozen in its pose of perpetually indignant outrage, doesn’t want additional perspective, more data and nuance, and — Heaven forbid — dissenting voices. The impulse to marginalize, condemn, ridicule, and finally choke off dissenting voices is not only what’s behind Senator Coburn’s war on the NSF, it’s behind the GOP-sponsored culture war that has sucked much of the oxygen out of the national discourse for more than a decade now. ¶ Republicans don’t like science and scientists because they are sources of data that are independent of GOP-approved propaganda mills like Fox News. Pesky scientists and academics are always popping up to dispute the Roger Ailes-approved buzz-quote of the day — on climate change, on health care, on the effects of poverty on the rapidly evaporating middle class, on the diversity of American families, and on the importance of funding basic research instead of commercially-driven ventures constrained by short-term considerations like ROI." Steve Silberman Why the GOP Hates the National Science Foundation | NeuroTribes


The people who manipulate data because it refuses to match their preconceived notions are going to lecture us on "choking off dissenting voices" LOL

Go choke your chickens.

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  #110 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2011, 01:38 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Toro View Post
Quote:
... many important Democrats are open to a truly large budget deal. President Obama has a strong incentive to reach a deal so he can campaign in 2012 as a moderate. The Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, has talked about supporting a debt reduction measure of $3 trillion or even $4 trillion if the Republicans meet him part way. There are Democrats in the White House and elsewhere who would be willing to accept Medicare cuts if the Republicans would be willing to increase revenues.

If the Republican Party were a normal party, it would take advantage of this amazing moment. It is being offered the deal of the century: trillions of dollars in spending cuts in exchange for a few hundred billion dollars of revenue increases.

A normal Republican Party would seize the opportunity to put a long-term limit on the growth of government. It would seize the opportunity to put the country on a sound fiscal footing. It would seize the opportunity to do these things without putting any real crimp in economic growth.

The party is not being asked to raise marginal tax rates in a way that might pervert incentives. On the contrary, Republicans are merely being asked to close loopholes and eliminate tax expenditures that are themselves distortionary. ...

But we can have no confidence that the Republicans will seize this opportunity. That’s because the Republican Party may no longer be a normal party. Over the past few years, it has been infected by a faction that is more of a psychological protest than a practical, governing alternative.

The members of this movement do not accept the logic of compromise, no matter how sweet the terms. If you ask them to raise taxes by an inch in order to cut government by a foot, they will say no. If you ask them to raise taxes by an inch to cut government by a yard, they will still say no.

The members of this movement do not accept the legitimacy of scholars and intellectual authorities. A thousand impartial experts may tell them that a default on the debt would have calamitous effects, far worse than raising tax revenues a bit. But the members of this movement refuse to believe it.

The members of this movement have no sense of moral decency. A nation makes a sacred pledge to pay the money back when it borrows money. But the members of this movement talk blandly of default and are willing to stain their nation’s honor.

The members of this movement have no economic theory worthy of the name. Economists have identified many factors that contribute to economic growth, ranging from the productivity of the work force to the share of private savings that is available for private investment. Tax levels matter, but they are far from the only or even the most important factor.

But to members of this movement, tax levels are everything. Members of this tendency have taken a small piece of economic policy and turned it into a sacred fixation. They are willing to cut education and research to preserve tax expenditures. Manufacturing employment is cratering even as output rises, but members of this movement somehow believe such problems can be addressed so long as they continue to worship their idol. ...

If the debt ceiling talks fail, independent voters will see that Democrats were willing to compromise but Republicans were not. If responsible Republicans don’t take control, independents will conclude that Republican fanaticism caused this default. They will conclude that Republicans are not fit to govern.

And they will be right.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/05/op...ef=davidbrooks

Thoughts?

*shrugs*...


so mr brooks is now an economist?I wonder if mr. brooks realizes that say green initiatives in the way of rebates etc. ( and which he sppts) would be cut as well, in that they are expenditures, counted by the Treasury as tax reductions ( which in effect they are spending) . BUT, true reductions in tax expenditures would piss off a great many many across both aisles, so the devil is in the details, there by making this whole screed
very premature ( see; sock puppet for the Dems) .

The pres. again, did another 3 minute precis on Television this morning, we are meeting and gonna prepare for the BIG meeting Sunday....sounds to me like they are not even sure were everyone stands yet beyond the major major.

And, I would add that if they committed re-write the tax code, I am all for chasing out deductions/loopholes etc. for a lower rate.

frankly, I want a balanced budget amend. they can get there just about anyway they like as long as they don't play the phantom borrow against themselves game.

Oh, and the usual sky is falling default on the debt. regurgitation is tiresome and noted.
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  #111 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2011, 01:42 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Toro View Post
FTR, gun to my head, if I had to make a bet right now, Romney is President in 13.
we'd be better off than where we are today
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  #112 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2011, 01:42 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by kaz View Post
Typical brain dead liberal rampant hypocrisy and ad homenim attack because they are too intellectually devoid to argue any other way. And the NY Times is speaking for moderation, LMAO
no sorry, hes not a "liberal", the 'house conservative' at the Times...
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Barack Obama -Inaugural Address Jan 2009; "As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals. . . . Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake."

Barack Obama- Friday June 2013; "I think it's important to recognize that you can't have 100% security and also then have 100% privacy and zero inconvenience. We're going to have to make some choices as a society."
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  #113 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2011, 01:45 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Dot Com View Post
How will Stephie, Frankie57, & The Rabbi cope when O'Bama is reelected?
Serious talk of impeachment will be the response (with considerable whailing and gnashing of teeth) along with cries that the nation must be saved.

Maybe Rush Limbaugh will engage in self-immolation in Lafayette Park.
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  #114 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2011, 01:46 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Sallow View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Stephanie View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by RDD_1210 View Post

You're cute.
so are you. as I said, Cut this damn Government and LEAVE US PEOPLE alone. This bullshit of RAISING REVENUE, The pretty sounding way of saying, raising our taxes.

DON'T FALL FOR IT FOLKS.
Plenty of places around the world with weak..and very poor governments that "leave people alone". Have you tried visiting even one of them?

I have.

They suck.
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Barack Obama -Inaugural Address Jan 2009; "As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals. . . . Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake."

Barack Obama- Friday June 2013; "I think it's important to recognize that you can't have 100% security and also then have 100% privacy and zero inconvenience. We're going to have to make some choices as a society."
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  #115 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2011, 01:46 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by kaz View Post
Typical brain dead liberal rampant hypocrisy and ad homenim attack because they are too intellectually devoid to argue any other way. And the NY Times is speaking for moderation, LMAO
no sorry, hes not a "liberal", the 'house conservative' at the Times...
Kaz doesn't even know who the conservative writer at the Times was. What does that tell you?
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  #116 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2011, 01:51 PM
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Nah... Obama's gonna be booted like Carter and will undoubtedly be viewed with the same disdain for decades thereafter.
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  #117 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2011, 02:14 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Mustang View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Toro View Post
Quote:
... many important Democrats are open to a truly large budget deal. President Obama has a strong incentive to reach a deal so he can campaign in 2012 as a moderate. The Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, has talked about supporting a debt reduction measure of $3 trillion or even $4 trillion if the Republicans meet him part way. There are Democrats in the White House and elsewhere who would be willing to accept Medicare cuts if the Republicans would be willing to increase revenues.

If the Republican Party were a normal party, it would take advantage of this amazing moment. It is being offered the deal of the century: trillions of dollars in spending cuts in exchange for a few hundred billion dollars of revenue increases.

A normal Republican Party would seize the opportunity to put a long-term limit on the growth of government. It would seize the opportunity to put the country on a sound fiscal footing. It would seize the opportunity to do these things without putting any real crimp in economic growth.

The party is not being asked to raise marginal tax rates in a way that might pervert incentives. On the contrary, Republicans are merely being asked to close loopholes and eliminate tax expenditures that are themselves distortionary. ...

But we can have no confidence that the Republicans will seize this opportunity. That’s because the Republican Party may no longer be a normal party. Over the past few years, it has been infected by a faction that is more of a psychological protest than a practical, governing alternative.

The members of this movement do not accept the logic of compromise, no matter how sweet the terms. If you ask them to raise taxes by an inch in order to cut government by a foot, they will say no. If you ask them to raise taxes by an inch to cut government by a yard, they will still say no.

The members of this movement do not accept the legitimacy of scholars and intellectual authorities. A thousand impartial experts may tell them that a default on the debt would have calamitous effects, far worse than raising tax revenues a bit. But the members of this movement refuse to believe it.

The members of this movement have no sense of moral decency. A nation makes a sacred pledge to pay the money back when it borrows money. But the members of this movement talk blandly of default and are willing to stain their nation’s honor.

The members of this movement have no economic theory worthy of the name. Economists have identified many factors that contribute to economic growth, ranging from the productivity of the work force to the share of private savings that is available for private investment. Tax levels matter, but they are far from the only or even the most important factor.

But to members of this movement, tax levels are everything. Members of this tendency have taken a small piece of economic policy and turned it into a sacred fixation. They are willing to cut education and research to preserve tax expenditures. Manufacturing employment is cratering even as output rises, but members of this movement somehow believe such problems can be addressed so long as they continue to worship their idol. ...

If the debt ceiling talks fail, independent voters will see that Democrats were willing to compromise but Republicans were not. If responsible Republicans don’t take control, independents will conclude that Republican fanaticism caused this default. They will conclude that Republicans are not fit to govern.

And they will be right.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/05/op...ef=davidbrooks

Thoughts?
A normal political party requires normal core members. The GOP has been chasing the more normal members away for years as it driftted ever further right. Now the base has too many core members who metaphorically ascribe to the insane notion that burning down a house to solve a termit problem is actually a viable solution to the problem.
Republicans are calling for neither a house burning nor exterminating the termite queen. We're simply calling for voters to pay attention and do not allow the termite-in-chief and his cadre of not-approved-congressionally advisers worm away at the Constitution as well as decimate the businesslike atmosphere America has in order to help its citizens prosper. The republicans I know want to see to it that the budget gets balanced, and that the incessant and frivolous government spending comes to an abrupt halt. We think the government needs to avoid subsidizing failed businesses whose policies do not work in the real world and that Congress should never pass laws forcing lending institutions to loan money to people who do not pay back what they owe.
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  #118 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2011, 02:40 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Mustang View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by kaz View Post
Typical brain dead liberal rampant hypocrisy and ad homenim attack because they are too intellectually devoid to argue any other way. And the NY Times is speaking for moderation, LMAO
no sorry, hes not a "liberal", the 'house conservative' at the Times...
Kaz doesn't even know who the conservative writer at the Times was. What does that tell you?
so? maybe he did and by the looks of brooks writings ( and this is not an isolated example) he just doesn't bother mincing words?

interesting that the media employs use of such a term for 2-3 of the writers at the 2 biggest newspapers in the country, eh?
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Barack Obama -Inaugural Address Jan 2009; "As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals. . . . Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake."

Barack Obama- Friday June 2013; "I think it's important to recognize that you can't have 100% security and also then have 100% privacy and zero inconvenience. We're going to have to make some choices as a society."
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  #119 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2011, 02:48 PM
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David Brooks, still one of the best punch lines around.
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  #120 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2011, 03:05 PM
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Stephanie is cooler than the underside of a pillow Stephanie is cooler than the underside of a pillow Stephanie is cooler than the underside of a pillow
Stephanie is cooler than the underside of a pillow Stephanie is cooler than the underside of a pillow Stephanie is cooler than the underside of a pillow Stephanie is cooler than the underside of a pillow Stephanie is cooler than the underside of a pillow Stephanie is cooler than the underside of a pillow Stephanie is cooler than the underside of a pillow Stephanie is cooler than the underside of a pillow
Quote: Originally Posted by M.D. Rawlings View Post
David Brooks, still one of the best punch lines around.
He works for the NYslimes. That should tell you all you need to know about him.
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"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself."
Tullius Cicero (106-43 BC)
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-- Ben Franklin
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