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This is a discussion on States Rights within the Politics forums, part of the US Discussion category; Here is an interesting article I found concerning the 10th admendment. by Michael Maharrey Paul Abrams trotted out one of the favorite progressive arguments for ...


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Old 06-25-2011, 08:32 AM
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States Rights

Here is an interesting article I found concerning the 10th admendment.

by Michael Maharrey

Paul Abrams trotted out one of the favorite progressive arguments for virtually unlimited federal power in a March 9 Huffington Post article.

The good ole’ “general welfare” clause.

Abrams brings quite an academic pedigree to the party. Yale educated, summa cum laude, multiple advanced degrees…which goes to show an Ivy League education doesn’t necessarily guarantee a student will actually graduate knowing anything.

OK, perhaps that’s a bit harsh. He may be a fine lawyer and an excellent medical doctor, but a constitutional scholar – not so much.

The rest can be found here: General Misunderstandings – Tenth Amendment Center


The federal govt was given enumerated powers in the constitution and have for years over stepped those bounds. The supreme court being one of the worst offenders. Executive orders also come to mind.

What is everybody elses mind set on this? And how would we go about fixing the problem and give states the power that they should have?
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Old 06-25-2011, 09:34 AM
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tony, your post demonstrates you know very little about the Constitution, American history, and our legal history. You can build a case from those foundations.
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Old 06-25-2011, 09:41 AM
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It is my belief that States have just as many rights as they do lefts.
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Old 06-25-2011, 09:53 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by JakeStarkey View Post
tony, your post demonstrates you know very little about the Constitution, American history, and our legal history. You can build a case from those foundations.
How about article 1 section 8 the enumerated powers of congress. No where do I see the right to regulate an industry within a sigle state.

Article 3 Judical powers no where do I read that the Supreme court has the right to overturn a state courts decision unless it has something to do with a dispute between 2 states or citizens of 2 states.

The 10th admendment. Giving the states powers not given to the federal govt as spelled out in article 1 section 8

I wonder have you even read the constitution.



The founders never intended for a federal govt to have the influence over the lives of people like they do today.

Alexander Hamiliton stated that:

“This specification of particulars [the 18 enumerated powers of Article I, Section 8] evidently excludes all pretension to a general legislative authority, because an affirmative grant of special powers would be absurd as well as useless if a general authority was intended.”

As far as out legal past goes it has been on a long trend in the wrong direction since FDR and keeps picking up steam as it goes. The federal govt in our recent modern history is in no way a reflection of what our founding fathers intended.
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Old 06-25-2011, 09:54 AM
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Now dont just insult me and let it go. If you have another point of view state it and back it up.
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Old 06-25-2011, 09:57 AM
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Just in case you need them here are the enumerated powers of congress

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
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Old 06-25-2011, 10:04 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by tonystewart1 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by JakeStarkey View Post
tony, your post demonstrates you know very little about the Constitution, American history, and our legal history. You can build a case from those foundations.
How about article 1 section 8 the enumerated powers of congress. No where do I see the right to regulate an industry within a sigle state.

Article 3 Judical powers no where do I read that the Supreme court has the right to overturn a state courts decision unless it has something to do with a dispute between 2 states or citizens of 2 states.

The 10th admendment. Giving the states powers not given to the federal govt as spelled out in article 1 section 8

I wonder have you even read the constitution.



The founders never intended for a federal govt to have the influence over the lives of people like they do today.

Alexander Hamiliton stated that:

“This specification of particulars [the 18 enumerated powers of Article I, Section 8] evidently excludes all pretension to a general legislative authority, because an affirmative grant of special powers would be absurd as well as useless if a general authority was intended.”

As far as out legal past goes it has been on a long trend in the wrong direction since FDR and keeps picking up steam as it goes. The federal govt in our recent modern history is in no way a reflection of what our founding fathers intended.
Did you skip over these parts?

Quote:
Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Section 10 - Powers prohibited of States

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

Article IV - The States
Section 1 - Each State to Honor all others

Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

Article VI - Debts, Supremacy, Oaths
All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
Try reading the whole thing.
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Old 06-25-2011, 10:05 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by tonystewart1 View Post
Just in case you need them here are the enumerated powers of congress

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
And these are all very board powers.

Unless of course..you can find some exceptions to each and every one of them?
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Old 06-25-2011, 10:12 AM
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See thats the problem I have read the whole thing and no where does the fed govt have the right to regulate trade and industry within a states borders. Those powers are not broad they are very specific in what the feds can do.

Show me where the federal govt has the authority to create and empower the EPA. Where does the supreme court have the right to rule on state laws that dont involve people from 2 states?
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Old 06-25-2011, 10:48 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by tonystewart1 View Post
Here is an interesting article I found concerning the 10th admendment.

by Michael Maharrey

Paul Abrams trotted out one of the favorite progressive arguments for virtually unlimited federal power in a March 9 Huffington Post article.

The good ole’ “general welfare” clause.

Abrams brings quite an academic pedigree to the party. Yale educated, summa cum laude, multiple advanced degrees…which goes to show an Ivy League education doesn’t necessarily guarantee a student will actually graduate knowing anything.

OK, perhaps that’s a bit harsh. He may be a fine lawyer and an excellent medical doctor, but a constitutional scholar – not so much.

The rest can be found here: General Misunderstandings – Tenth Amendment Center


The federal govt was given enumerated powers in the constitution and have for years over stepped those bounds. The supreme court being one of the worst offenders. Executive orders also come to mind.

What is everybody elses mind set on this? And how would we go about fixing the problem and give states the power that they should have?
I think in about another 5 years or so, there will be states that secede from the union, and I will be living in one of them, preferably Texas or Florida. The rest of the states will slowly begin to slide into a 3rd world nation due to having 80% entitlement class and only 20% working class, which will force those working class to move out of state and into a seceding state. The entitlement class will finally have what they voted for, and after the state governments fail the entitlement class will be wondering how the states don't have any money to pay for their "Free stuff" anymore. And then...maybe just then...a light bulb will blink on in those tiny little minds and they might just understand for once where money actually comes from.
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Old 06-25-2011, 10:49 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by tonystewart1 View Post
See thats the problem I have read the whole thing and no where does the fed govt have the right to regulate trade and industry within a states borders. Those powers are not broad they are very specific in what the feds can do.

Show me where the federal govt has the authority to create and empower the EPA. Where does the supreme court have the right to rule on state laws that dont involve people from 2 states?
They don't, and why elections have consequences when it comes to the most despotic branch of government (The Judicial)...
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Old 06-25-2011, 10:51 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Sallow View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by tonystewart1 View Post
Just in case you need them here are the enumerated powers of congress

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
And these are all very board powers.

Unless of course..you can find some exceptions to each and every one of them?
They are only broad powers should you choose to interpret them instead of read them for what they are.
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Old 06-25-2011, 10:52 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by grunt11b View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by tonystewart1 View Post
Here is an interesting article I found concerning the 10th admendment.

by Michael Maharrey

Paul Abrams trotted out one of the favorite progressive arguments for virtually unlimited federal power in a March 9 Huffington Post article.

The good ole’ “general welfare” clause.

Abrams brings quite an academic pedigree to the party. Yale educated, summa cum laude, multiple advanced degrees…which goes to show an Ivy League education doesn’t necessarily guarantee a student will actually graduate knowing anything.

OK, perhaps that’s a bit harsh. He may be a fine lawyer and an excellent medical doctor, but a constitutional scholar – not so much.

The rest can be found here: General Misunderstandings – Tenth Amendment Center


The federal govt was given enumerated powers in the constitution and have for years over stepped those bounds. The supreme court being one of the worst offenders. Executive orders also come to mind.

What is everybody elses mind set on this? And how would we go about fixing the problem and give states the power that they should have?
I think in about another 5 years or so, there will be states that secede from the union, and I will be living in one of them, preferably Texas or Florida. The rest of the states will slowly begin to slide into a 3rd world nation due to having 80% entitlement class and only 20% working class, which will force those working class to move out of state and into a seceding state. The entitlement class will finally have what they voted for, and after the state governments fail the entitlement class will be wondering how the states don't have any money to pay for their "Free stuff" anymore. And then...maybe just then...a light bulb will blink on in those tiny little minds and they might just understand for once where money actually comes from.
You can count on the souther counties of WV to go with you. All of us here are sick of federal involvment in what should be state issues.
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Old 06-25-2011, 11:00 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by tonystewart1 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by grunt11b View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by tonystewart1 View Post
Here is an interesting article I found concerning the 10th admendment.

by Michael Maharrey

Paul Abrams trotted out one of the favorite progressive arguments for virtually unlimited federal power in a March 9 Huffington Post article.

The good ole’ “general welfare” clause.

Abrams brings quite an academic pedigree to the party. Yale educated, summa cum laude, multiple advanced degrees…which goes to show an Ivy League education doesn’t necessarily guarantee a student will actually graduate knowing anything.

OK, perhaps that’s a bit harsh. He may be a fine lawyer and an excellent medical doctor, but a constitutional scholar – not so much.
The rest can be found here: General Misunderstandings – Tenth Amendment Center


The federal govt was given enumerated powers in the constitution and have for years over stepped those bounds. The supreme court being one of the worst offenders. Executive orders also come to mind.

What is everybody elses mind set on this? And how would we go about fixing the problem and give states the power that they should have?
I think in about another 5 years or so, there will be states that secede from the union, and I will be living in one of them, preferably Texas or Florida. The rest of the states will slowly begin to slide into a 3rd world nation due to having 80% entitlement class and only 20% working class, which will force those working class to move out of state and into a seceding state. The entitlement class will finally have what they voted for, and after the state governments fail the entitlement class will be wondering how the states don't have any money to pay for their "Free stuff" anymore. And then...maybe just then...a light bulb will blink on in those tiny little minds and they might just understand for once where money actually comes from.
You can count on the souther counties of WV to go with you. All of us here are sick of federal involvment in what should be state issues.
Indeed as are the Southern United States.
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Old 06-25-2011, 11:05 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by tonystewart1 View Post
See thats the problem I have read the whole thing and no where does the fed govt have the right to regulate trade and industry within a states borders. Those powers are not broad they are very specific in what the feds can do.

Show me where the federal govt has the authority to create and empower the EPA. Where does the supreme court have the right to rule on state laws that dont involve people from 2 states?
Find a clause..or even word where it specifies that.

I've posted both that specifically say your statement is completely and utterly incorrect.
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