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Was Waterboarding Worth It?

This is a discussion on Was Waterboarding Worth It? within the Politics forums, part of the US Discussion category; Quote: Originally Posted by Antiderivative I love the idea of tramping on Habaes Corpus. How many of you un-Americans disagree with me? Who said anything ...


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View Poll Results: Was Waterboarding Worth It?
Yes 68 77.27%
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Old 05-02-2011, 07:58 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
I love the idea of tramping on Habaes Corpus. How many of you un-Americans disagree with me?
Who said anything aout water boarding U.S. Citizens?
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Old 05-02-2011, 07:59 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by bigrebnc1775 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
I love the idea of tramping on Habaes Corpus. How many of you un-Americans disagree with me?
Who said anything aout water boarding U.S. Citizens?


The AD moron doesn't grok the concept of Habeas Corpus.
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:03 PM
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I did and do.


others don't feel that way naturally. I ran across this today.I actually agree with some of the points he makes, but then I remember a Churchill quote;

"It's no use saying 'We are doing our best or what is 'right'. You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary."




Monday, May 2nd, 2011

In The Looming Tower, the Pulitzer-winning history of al-Qaeda and the road to 9/11, author Lawrence Wright lays out how Osama bin Laden’s motivation for the attacks that he planned in the 1990s, and then the September 11 attacks, was to draw the U.S. and the West into a prolonged war—an actual war in Afghanistan, and a broader global war with Islam.

Osama got both. And we gave him a prolonged war in Iraq to boot. By the end of Obama’s first term, we’ll probably top 6,000 dead U.S. troops in those two wars, along with hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and Afghans. The cost for both wars is also now well over $1 trillion.

We have also fundamentally altered who we are. A partial, off-the-top-of-my-head list of how we’ve changed since September 11 . . .

* We’ve sent terrorist suspects to “black sites” to be detained without trial and tortured.
* We’ve turned terrorist suspects over to other regimes, knowing that they’d be tortured.
* In those cases when our government later learned it got the wrong guy, federal officials not only refused to apologize or compensate him, they went to court to argue he should be barred from using our courts to seek justice, and that the details of his abduction, torture, and detainment should be kept secret.
* We’ve abducted and imprisoned dozens, perhaps hundreds of men in Guantanamo who turned out to have been innocent. Again, the government felt no obligation to do right by them.
* The government launched a multimillion dollar ad campaign implying that people who smoke marijuana are complicit in the murder of nearly 3,000 of their fellow citizens.
* The government illegally spied and eavesdropped on thousands of American citizens.
* Presidents from both of the two major political parties have claimed the power to detain suspected terrorists and hold them indefinitely without trial, based solely on the president’s designation of them as an “enemy combatant,” essentially making the president prosecutor, judge, and jury. (I’d also argue that the treatment of someone like Bradley Manning wouldn’t have been tolerated before September 11.)
* The current president has also claimed the power to execute U.S. citizens, off the battlefield, without a trial, and to prevent anyone from knowing about it after the fact.
* The Congress approved, the president signed, and the U.S. Supreme Court upheld a broadly written law making it a crime to advocate for any organization the government deems sympathetic to terrorism. This includes challenging the “terrorist” designation in the first place.
* Flying in America now means enduring a humiliating and hassling ritual that does little if anything to actually make flying any safer. Every time the government fails to catch an attempt at terrorism, it punishes the public for its failure by adding to the ritual.
* American Muslims, a heartening story of success and assimilation, are now harassed and denigrated for merely trying to build houses of worship.
* Without a warrant, the government can search and seize indefinitely the laptops and other personal electronic devices of anyone entering the country.
* The Department of Homeland Security now gives terrorism-fighting grants for local police departments across the country to purchase military equipment, such as armored personnel carriers, which is then used against U.S. citizens, mostly to serve drug warrants.
more at-



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Old 05-02-2011, 08:03 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by bigrebnc1775 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
I love the idea of tramping on Habaes Corpus. How many of you un-Americans disagree with me?
Who said anything aout water boarding U.S. Citizens?

HC is a fundamental concept of freedom that extends well beyond Americans.

Why do you hate freedom?
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:04 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by boedicca View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by bigrebnc1775 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
I love the idea of tramping on Habaes Corpus. How many of you un-Americans disagree with me?
Who said anything aout water boarding U.S. Citizens?


The AD moron doesn't grok the concept of Habeas Corpus.
You are a bad troll. Go neg me or something.
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:05 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Wicked Jester View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Smash_Hits View Post
Torture is against everything that America stands for. I don't give a damn what it accomplishes... it is NEVER right.
Nobody was tortured, they were waterboarded.
Get waterboarded and tell me it isn't torture.

Right-Wing Radio Host Gets Waterboarded, and Lasts Six Seconds Before Saying It's Torture | Civil Liberties | AlterNet


I dare you, idiot.
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:05 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
I love the idea of tramping on Habaes Corpus. How many of you un-Americans disagree with me?
tell it to Lincoln and FDR..oh and Wilson, the patron saint of progressives...
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Barack Obama- Friday June 2013; "I think it's important to recognize that you can't have 100% security and also then have 100% privacy and zero inconvenience. We're going to have to make some choices as a society."
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:05 PM
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yes... i've been waterboarded, it's not that big of a deal..... all it does is make you tell the truth, just changes your attitude a little bit, makes you a little bit more likely to tell the truth, to total strangers. you can try it at home, not that large of a deal....
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:07 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by washamericom View Post
yes... i've been waterboarded, it's not that big a deal..... all it does is make you tell the truth, just changes your attitude a little bit, makes you a little bit more likelt to tell the truth to total strangers.
So... you're saying that it's coercive and uncomfortable...


Isn't that torture?
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:07 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by boedicca View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by bigrebnc1775 View Post

Who said anything aout water boarding U.S. Citizens?


The AD moron doesn't grok the concept of Habeas Corpus.
You are a bad troll. Go neg me or something.

YUO = IDIOT

You have provided no coherent and logical reasoning as to why Habeas Corpus would apply to a foreign combatant who committed an act of war against the U.S.
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:07 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by bigrebnc1775 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
I love the idea of tramping on Habaes Corpus. How many of you un-Americans disagree with me?
Who said anything aout water boarding U.S. Citizens?

HC is a fundamental concept of freedom that extends well beyond Americans.

Why do you hate freedom?
When a person becomes a citizens of the U.S. we can talk Habaes Corpus is protected under the U.S. constitution protect the rights of American citizens. Please do try again.

oh and one more thing

To save obama's life and to only way you could get the information was to water board a non U.S. Citizen who had direct information on the place it was going to happen and the people connected but you did not have time to wait, would you water board the person?
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:07 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
I love the idea of tramping on Habaes Corpus. How many of you un-Americans disagree with me?
tell it to Lincoln and FDR..oh and Wilson, the patron saint of progressives...
Fucking atrocious what they did regarding HC.
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:08 PM
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If it turns out this info was obtained through torture, doesn't that make our President a war criminal for using info obtained by torture which is against the law
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:08 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
I love the idea of tramping on Habaes Corpus. How many of you un-Americans disagree with me?
tell it to Lincoln and FDR..oh and Wilson, the patron saint of progressives...
Fucking atrocious what they did regarding HC.

Hey AD, look at my thumb.















































Gee, you're dumb.
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:08 PM
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the thread title specifys 'worth it'...how about, effective?
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Naphta to Settembrini;
“It is ultimately a cruel misunderstanding of youth to believe it will find its heart’s desire in freedom, when truly, its deepest desire is to obey.” ( Der Zauberberg)


Barack Obama -Inaugural Address Jan 2009; "As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals. . . . Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake."

Barack Obama- Friday June 2013; "I think it's important to recognize that you can't have 100% security and also then have 100% privacy and zero inconvenience. We're going to have to make some choices as a society."
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