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Why would anyone continue to claim the iraqi war was a failure?

This is a discussion on Why would anyone continue to claim the iraqi war was a failure? within the Politics forums, part of the US Discussion category; Quote: Originally Posted by M14 Shooter Quote: Originally Posted by BlindBoo Quote: Originally Posted by M14 Shooter This is, of course, a lie. Prove this. ...


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  #151 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2011, 01:04 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by M14 Shooter View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by BlindBoo View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by M14 Shooter View Post
This is, of course, a lie.

Prove this.
Two years before the September 11 attacks, presidential candidate George W. Bush was already talking privately about the political benefits of attacking Iraq, according to his former ghost writer, who held many conversations with then-Texas Governor Bush in preparation for a planned autobiography.

"He was thinking about invading Iraq in 1999," said author and journalist Mickey Herskowitz. "It was on his mind. He said to me: 'One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief.' And he said, 'My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it.' He said, 'If I have a chance to invade�.if I had that much capital, I'm not going to waste it. I'm going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I'm going to have a successful presidency." Herskowitz said that Bush expressed frustration at a lifetime as an underachiever in the shadow of an accomplished father. In aggressive military action, he saw the opportunity to emerge from his father's shadow. The moment, Herskowitz said, came in the wake of the September 11 attacks. "Suddenly, he's at 91 percent in the polls, and he'd barely crawled out of the bunker."

That President Bush and his advisers had Iraq on their minds long before weapons inspectors had finished their work - and long before alleged Iraqi ties with terrorists became a central rationale for war - has been raised elsewhere, including in a book based on recollections of former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill.

Two Years Before 9/11, Bush was Already Talking About Attacking Iraq
Commondreams.org?


OK, so.... where's the proof that GWB had his mind made up [about going to war with Iraq] long before the first bombs were dropped?
The Houston Chronicle Reporter that wrote the book still claims it as a fact.

Then there is the Downing Street memo's

What do all these leaked, confidential British memos point to? The Bush Administration had decided to go to war at least one year before doing so and many months before seeking a resolution from Congress. The invasion of Iraq was illegal under international law so they tried to create legal justification through manipulation of the United Nations in order to trap Saddam into violating U.N. resolutions

How Much Proof Needed Before the Truth Comes Out? by Kevin B. Zeese

Now say something about lewrockwell.com now
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  #152 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2011, 01:07 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by BlindBoo View Post
The Houston Chronicle Reporter that wrote the book still claims it as a fact.
Still waiting for proof.

Quote:
Then there is the Downing Street memo's
Still waiting for proof.

Quote:
What do all these leaked, confidential British memos point to...

I'll take all of this as your admision you cannot prove the assertion.
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  #153 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2011, 01:35 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by BlindBoo View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by M14 Shooter View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by BlindBoo View Post

Two years before the September 11 attacks, presidential candidate George W. Bush was already talking privately about the political benefits of attacking Iraq, according to his former ghost writer, who held many conversations with then-Texas Governor Bush in preparation for a planned autobiography.

"He was thinking about invading Iraq in 1999," said author and journalist Mickey Herskowitz. "It was on his mind. He said to me: 'One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief.' And he said, 'My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it.' He said, 'If I have a chance to invade�.if I had that much capital, I'm not going to waste it. I'm going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I'm going to have a successful presidency." Herskowitz said that Bush expressed frustration at a lifetime as an underachiever in the shadow of an accomplished father. In aggressive military action, he saw the opportunity to emerge from his father's shadow. The moment, Herskowitz said, came in the wake of the September 11 attacks. "Suddenly, he's at 91 percent in the polls, and he'd barely crawled out of the bunker."

That President Bush and his advisers had Iraq on their minds long before weapons inspectors had finished their work - and long before alleged Iraqi ties with terrorists became a central rationale for war - has been raised elsewhere, including in a book based on recollections of former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill.

Two Years Before 9/11, Bush was Already Talking About Attacking Iraq
Commondreams.org?


OK, so.... where's the proof that GWB had his mind made up [about going to war with Iraq] long before the first bombs were dropped?
The Houston Chronicle Reporter that wrote the book still claims it as a fact.

Then there is the Downing Street memo's

What do all these leaked, confidential British memos point to? The Bush Administration had decided to go to war at least one year before doing so and many months before seeking a resolution from Congress. The invasion of Iraq was illegal under international law so they tried to create legal justification through manipulation of the United Nations in order to trap Saddam into violating U.N. resolutions

How Much Proof Needed Before the Truth Comes Out? by Kevin B. Zeese

Now say something about lewrockwell.com now
I would have hoped that our president and staff along with the military was ready to go to war 12 months prior to invasion
I am going to make this simple
Saddam caused this, no-one else
he-lied
he-lied
he-lied

9-11 came along and W said no more
leave or else

He did not leave. There was no reason for war, I agree
Saddam Hussein never realized that there would be an event that changed the game he was playing
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  #154 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2011, 01:43 PM
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Wanna talk about the fact that there were NO WMD'S IN IRAQ?

How about the fact that Jr.'s admin lied about it?

Wanna talk about the fact that OBL (who caused 9/11) has never been caught?

Nope.....the Iraq war was a horrible failure.
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  #155 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2011, 01:55 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ABikerSailor View Post
Wanna talk about the fact that there were NO WMD'S IN IRAQ?

How about the fact that Jr.'s admin lied about it?

Wanna talk about the fact that OBL (who caused 9/11) has never been caught?

Nope.....the Iraq war was a horrible failure.
WMDs
except for these 500 hundred DOD: Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria Sister Toldjah
WMDs
except for these shipped out and the main stream media ignores
Pajamas Media Satellite Photos Support Testimony That Iraqi WMD Went to Syria
U.S. official: Iraqis told me WMDs sent to Syria
World Threats Blog Archive U.N. Says Iraq Shipped WMD Equipment Out of Country

OBL? how would you like to be shitting in a cave the rest of your life, he may not be caught yet but son of a bitch his life has to be a living hell

Failure?
your opinion that I would not share with a marine, you have that right and I could care less
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  #156 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2011, 01:56 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ABikerSailor View Post
Wanna talk about the fact that there were NO WMD'S IN IRAQ?
How about the fact that Jr.'s admin lied about it?
Sigh.
Neither you nor anyone else can show that GWB willfully made a statement he knew to be false. Thus, neither you nor anyone else can show that GWB lied.

Quote:
Wanna talk about the fact that OBL (who caused 9/11) has never been caught?
Straw, man.

Quote:
Nope.....the Iraq war was a horrible failure.
Not by any -rational- standard.
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  #157 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2011, 02:01 PM
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The fact we went in under false pretenses, stole their country, and stayed in way too long is consider a FAILURE. It was one of the worst war we ever fought. There was no victory, only shame.
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  #158 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2011, 02:02 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by JFK_USA View Post
The fact we went in under false pretenses, stole their country, and stayed in way too long...
As I said:
Not by any -rational- standard.
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  #159 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2011, 02:08 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by JFK_USA View Post
The fact we went in under false pretenses, stole their country, and stayed in way too long is consider a FAILURE. It was one of the worst war we ever fought. There was no victory, only shame.
false?
Pajamas Media Satellite Photos Support Testimony That Iraqi WMD Went to Syria
World Threats Blog Archive U.N. Says Iraq Shipped WMD Equipment Out of Country
snopes.com: Former Iraqi General: WMD moved to Syria

failure?
Saddam? gone
Iraq? republic
Terrorist? Gone, dead, desperate

I do not recall us taking anything in Iraq
nor do I recall keeping anything

you have you're opinion, i just wished it was based on accurate information
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  #160 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2011, 02:38 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by M14 Shooter View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by BlindBoo View Post
The Houston Chronicle Reporter that wrote the book still claims it as a fact.
Still waiting for proof.

Quote:
Then there is the Downing Street memo's
Still waiting for proof.

Quote:
What do all these leaked, confidential British memos point to...

I'll take all of this as your admision you cannot prove the assertion.
The evidence is there. You can deny it all you want. Doesn't change the facts that President Bush used the tradegy of 9-11 to drag the country into an unnecessary and illegal war of aggression.
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  #161 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2011, 02:40 PM
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If your "good" intentions lead directly or indirectly to bad actions, isnt that bad planning on your part?
Sure were not all knowing, but if you intended to rid a patient of an illness, then by killing the person in question you might have achieved your goal with good intentions, but bad execution.
A very blunt example obviously but one action usually have lots of consequences, some bad, some good, and you cant really balance them on a scale and see what comes out ahead.
And even if you meant good, does that negate the bad part of the spectrum?

This is the truth of the story of Iraq, it was someone who thought he was doing good which game him the right to do bad because his real intent was doing good in his own mind.
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  #162 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2011, 02:42 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by JRK View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by ABikerSailor View Post
Wanna talk about the fact that there were NO WMD'S IN IRAQ?

How about the fact that Jr.'s admin lied about it?

Wanna talk about the fact that OBL (who caused 9/11) has never been caught?

Nope.....the Iraq war was a horrible failure.
WMDs
except for these 500 hundred DOD: Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria Sister Toldjah
WMDs
except for these shipped out and the main stream media ignores
Pajamas Media Satellite Photos Support Testimony That Iraqi WMD Went to Syria
U.S. official: Iraqis told me WMDs sent to Syria
World Threats Blog Archive U.N. Says Iraq Shipped WMD Equipment Out of Country

OBL? how would you like to be shitting in a cave the rest of your life, he may not be caught yet but son of a bitch his life has to be a living hell

Failure?
your opinion that I would not share with a marine, you have that right and I could care less
Left over Weapons from the Iran/Iraq war do not count as the Bush Administration was touting new production facilities.......

The invasion and occupation of Iraq has been a debacle since the invasion part was over. Epic Failure.
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  #163 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2011, 02:52 PM
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FactCheck.org: Were there really weapons of mass destruction in Iraq when the U.S. invaded in 2003?


After the invasion of Iraq in 2003, the Bush administration formed the Iraq Survey Group and tasked it with the job of locating WMD stockpiles in Iraq. The ISG was staffed with hundreds of intelligence analysts and military personnel from the United States, the United Kingdom and Australia. The group scoured Iraq, searching for deposits of weapons. But that was actually only part of the ISG’s focusA.



and this is when Iraq went from a threat of WMD invasion to Saddam was a bad person and that is why he needed to go.

All I ask is it ok to kill innocent people in order to kill someone who is bad? Would you allow that if it happened in America?

Last edited by mnbasketball; 03-08-2011 at 02:54 PM.
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  #164 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2011, 03:06 PM
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If we had told Saddam that hey guy were willing to buy you out, were going to give you 200,000,000,000.00 two hundred billion and we will allow you to move to any place you want with your families and friends if you want, do you think they might have said OK?
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  #165 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2011, 03:37 PM
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This issue will be evaluated by two distinctly different mentalities; those who are willing to discern the obvious and those who for one reason or other are compliant stooges of the emerging corporatocracy. Trying to convince those in the latter category that George W. Bush was predisposed to invading Iraq is a waste of time.
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