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what has obama done that makes him a better POTUS than bush?

This is a discussion on what has obama done that makes him a better POTUS than bush? within the Politics forums, part of the US Discussion category; Quote: Originally Posted by rightwinger Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalChic Quote: Originally Posted by del i thought bush was a terrible pres for the most ...


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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-29-2010, 08:39 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by rightwinger View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalChic View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by del View Post
i thought bush was a terrible pres for the most part, although i did vote for him in 2000 because he wasn't al gore. i voted lib in 2004 and in 2008 i didn't vote for POTUS at all.

if you support pres obama,please tell me why you feel he's a better pres than bush was. from where i sit, it's more business as usual, and if anything, it's more cynical than usual, too.


"if you support pres obama..."
Well, if you will allow me to infract your rule, as I do not support the President, I would like to offer a suggestion as to why many support[ed] him.

Skin color.

The desire to feel good about themselves, and cast off what is seen as the racist aspect of American history.

Richard Brookhiser has an excellent essay some years back that explored this aspect of elements of the electorate.

Brookhiser wrote an essay characterizing the left’s depiction, as follows:
“Who is the Numinous Negro? He is everywhere, especially in our hearts, and if we are lucky he is our friend. The Numinous Negro is a presiding divinity. The place he presides over is America, and contact with him elevates us spiritually. You see him in the gooey prose of white liberals whenever a Negro appears….The saintly Death Row hero of The Green Mile was so Numinous that even movie reviewers noticed the technique…
liberalism is a secular faith concerned to remedy what political scientist Kenneth Minogue called “suffering situations.”
The Numinous Negro - Flashback - National Review Online
Seriously PC, Skin Color was the reason Obama was elected?

Did you miss out on the last ten years? The 2006 congressional election was a referendum on the idiocy of the Iraq War. Republicans at all levels were voted out of office and Donald Rumsfeld paid with his job.

The 2008 election was about the economy. Since 2007, the economy had been in a freefall and the Republicans denied it right up to the election. Remember "The economy is fundamentally strong" from McCain? If skin color were the only reason for Obamas election, why were Republican Congressmen, Senators and Governors also voted out of office? Were they the wrong skin color too?
I think you have quite a valid case had I said "Skin Color was the reason Obama was elected..." as you have posited it.

And, again, your words: "If skin color were the only reason for Obamas election,..."

I like the technique...if you can get away with it.

But that is not quite what I said.

This from my post: "...why many support[ed] him."

I would love to debate the aspect of the Democrat playbook known as 'identity politics,' and then try to give some percentage of the vote that the President garnered due to skin color...but for this thread, I'll stick to 'many' being the operative term.

Of course the soaring oratorial ability must be a large part of the equation, and the economy. But I'll stick with my premise.

Were you able to read the Brookhiser essay?
Are you ready to make the argument that skin color was not a factor to any degree? I thought not.


If you would like to base your thinking on "Did you miss out on the last ten years?" then you are forced to answer this query:
Why was McCain ahead in September, prior to the financial meltdown?
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 05-29-2010, 09:49 AM
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You know that Obama being black cost him more votes than helped him. All you have to do is asked the base of the Confederate Republican Party of Teabags.

Why can't the right ever be honest? Just once. Say the truth, "We don't like Obama because he's black".



Without a doubt, it is this sort of material that makes Republicans look bad on issues of race. Republicans have been trying, particularly at the highest levels, to recruit minority support. There has been a very limited response. It is things like these that make those high-level efforts ineffective.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 05-29-2010, 10:10 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by del View Post
i thought bush was a terrible pres for the most part, although i did vote for him in 2000 because he wasn't al gore. i voted lib in 2004 and in 2008 i didn't vote for POTUS at all.

if you support pres obama,please tell me why you feel he's a better pres than bush was. from where i sit, it's more business as usual, and if anything, it's more cynical than usual, too.
Seriously it is a difficult comparison. Bush started out with a huge surplus and no international involvements. Obama stepped into a huge deficite and a death spiral of an economy and two wars..

What would an Obama have done with Bushes start? What would Bush have done with the conditions of Obamas start?

It is impossible to gauge. Based on how Bush handled the situation and advantages he inherited I would venture that by this point we would be the passengers on the Titanic.

Obama having a surplus and great economy would not have the crisis to do health care ...at least a better regulated economy ...we may not have had the wall st collapse ...it is just to hard to know if a smart guy could have done any better than the baffoon.
How would Obama have handled 9/11. I mean after telling everyone that's just "Americas chickens coming home to roost"?
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Old 05-29-2010, 10:50 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by del View Post
i thought bush was a terrible pres for the most part, although i did vote for him in 2000 because he wasn't al gore. i voted lib in 2004 and in 2008 i didn't vote for POTUS at all.

if you support pres obama,please tell me why you feel he's a better pres than bush was. from where i sit, it's more business as usual, and if anything, it's more cynical than usual, too.
Seriously it is a difficult comparison. Bush started out with a huge surplus and no international involvements. Obama stepped into a huge deficite and a death spiral of an economy and two wars..

What would an Obama have done with Bushes start? What would Bush have done with the conditions of Obamas start?

It is impossible to gauge. Based on how Bush handled the situation and advantages he inherited I would venture that by this point we would be the passengers on the Titanic.

Obama having a surplus and great economy would not have the crisis to do health care ...at least a better regulated economy ...we may not have had the wall st collapse ...it is just to hard to know if a smart guy could have done any better than the baffoon.
How would Obama have handled 9/11. I mean after telling everyone that's just "Americas chickens coming home to roost"?
This is going to be hard for you to swallow but keeping in the vein of serious....

I doubt there would have been 9/11 if Obama had been elected instead of Bush. Not a 30 ish year old Obama of course .... but the one we have now.

Unlike many I lean towards what Ossama said was his reasoning for the attack. Bushes daddy was the guy that put the Air Force base in Saudi Arabia that Ossama believed was defiling his holy land. Right or wrong ..from our standpoint..obviously wrong..that was his motivation. With Obamas prediliction to listen before he acts ... My guess is that he might have diffused some of Ossamas effect.

Bush was warned many times and arrogantly ignored the warnings. I honestly believe Obama is several levels of intelligent above Bush and would have at least looked into the specific warnings of attacks by airplaness being hatched.

If .... somehow even Obama and the rest of the gobmint dropped the ball I doubt Obama would have foolishly rushed us into a war. I am sure he would have assembled Seals and Ranger teams and gone into Afgahnistan and wiped out the elements of Al Quiada that caused the attack. That is what an Intelligent president should have done. That is what happened to Tim McVeih and The Blind Shiek on the attempted destruction by bombing of the towers.

It is hard to look back and know what would have..could have..should have..been done by whom. America had not just fucking had enough of idiots running things. In my opinion we would have never elected Obama in good times.
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Old 05-29-2010, 11:05 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by del View Post
i thought bush was a terrible pres for the most part, although i did vote for him in 2000 because he wasn't al gore. i voted lib in 2004 and in 2008 i didn't vote for POTUS at all.

if you support pres obama,please tell me why you feel he's a better pres than bush was. from where i sit, it's more business as usual, and if anything, it's more cynical than usual, too.


Let me turn the question around and ask you, in what area are we not now better off than we were on the day Obama took office?

Of course we are in a terrible position on many issues, and they all have to do with our inability to face up to our problems. And, no matter who is president, unless we finally do what we'll have to do on such things as Social Security, Medicare, our Health Care delivery system, our dependence on foreign oil, and what seems to be our willingness to cede Green Technology, which is the next great economic growth area, to our competition, we will continue to slide toward following Greece over the economic edge.

But, back to your question, "why you feel he's a better pres than bush was," pick you category...........be it the economy, wall street, health care, or whatever you wish to discuss........as far as we are from being perfect on anything, we are today in a far, far better place than we were on the day Obama took office.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 05-29-2010, 11:31 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by del View Post
i thought bush was a terrible pres for the most part, although i did vote for him in 2000 because he wasn't al gore. i voted lib in 2004 and in 2008 i didn't vote for POTUS at all.

if you support pres obama,please tell me why you feel he's a better pres than bush was. from where i sit, it's more business as usual, and if anything, it's more cynical than usual, too.
Even if I didn't vote for them (and I rarely do) I support whoever is elected - up to a point. With G.W. Bush the point came as he explained his stance on Iraq in a prime time presentation. Haven't yet reached that point with Obama.
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Old 05-29-2010, 11:38 AM
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It's going to take some creativity for this thread.
perhaps, but it's a sincere question.

for a change
He is post racial. Now when you disagree it isnt due to his race it is strictly do to what one believes moves the country in the direction of greater personal liberty and smaller government.
So for that he has accomplished something positive with the help of the media..
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Old 05-29-2010, 11:41 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by del View Post
i thought bush was a terrible pres for the most part, although i did vote for him in 2000 because he wasn't al gore. i voted lib in 2004 and in 2008 i didn't vote for POTUS at all.

if you support pres obama,please tell me why you feel he's a better pres than bush was. from where i sit, it's more business as usual, and if anything, it's more cynical than usual, too.
Nothing. I wasn't impressed with Bush, but at least he didn't have to f- with stuff just to be f-ing with it.

Obama on the other hand is trying to turn the US into another mediocre, socialist Euro-state.

The US could never be destroyed from without. It IS being destroyed from within.
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Old 05-29-2010, 11:43 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by rdean View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by HUGGY View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by del View Post
i thought bush was a terrible pres for the most part, although i did vote for him in 2000 because he wasn't al gore. i voted lib in 2004 and in 2008 i didn't vote for POTUS at all.

if you support pres obama,please tell me why you feel he's a better pres than bush was. from where i sit, it's more business as usual, and if anything, it's more cynical than usual, too.
Seriously it is a difficult comparison. Bush started out with a huge surplus and no international involvements. Obama stepped into a huge deficite and a death spiral of an economy and two wars..

What would an Obama have done with Bushes start? What would Bush have done with the conditions of Obamas start?

It is impossible to gauge. Based on how Bush handled the situation and advantages he inherited I would venture that by this point we would be the passengers on the Titanic.

Obama having a surplus and great economy would not have the crisis to do health care ...at least a better regulated economy ...we may not have had the wall st collapse ...it is just to hard to know if a smart guy could have done any better than the baffoon.
Simply the fact that Bush started with a huge surplus and no international involvements and we ended up with huge deficit and a death spiral of an economy and two wars tells the story.

These are observations that those on the right will desperately REFUSE to acknowledge. What will happen is the thread will continue with those points being ignored or the thread will just die with someone starting another, "Obama is really the grandson of Adolf Hitler" thread.
Typical liberal gibberish. The 'surplus' left to Bush was on paper thanks to the voodoo accounting of Clinton's cronies.. Bush didn't invite 9-11. It came upon us after Clinton let Obama slip away several times just to be PC. Bush freed the Iraqi people in accordance with the Iraqi Liberation Act signed by Bill Clinton.

Bush's major mistake was failing to veto some of the spending bills that kept coming to his desk.

Obama is a Marxist, driving toward total government control of our economy, jobs and benefits. Bear in mind that he does not have to adhere to any of the rules put forth to control the masses...he is part of the ruling elite. (They get special privileges throughout life just for sucking up to the leaders and being part of 'the government'.)

He is the worst POTUS we have had in my lifetime...bar none!

Liberalism is a mental disorder!
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Old 05-29-2010, 12:17 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalChic View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by rightwinger View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalChic View Post



"if you support pres obama..."
Well, if you will allow me to infract your rule, as I do not support the President, I would like to offer a suggestion as to why many support[ed] him.

Skin color.

The desire to feel good about themselves, and cast off what is seen as the racist aspect of American history.

Richard Brookhiser has an excellent essay some years back that explored this aspect of elements of the electorate.

Brookhiser wrote an essay characterizing the left’s depiction, as follows:
“Who is the Numinous Negro? He is everywhere, especially in our hearts, and if we are lucky he is our friend. The Numinous Negro is a presiding divinity. The place he presides over is America, and contact with him elevates us spiritually. You see him in the gooey prose of white liberals whenever a Negro appears….The saintly Death Row hero of The Green Mile was so Numinous that even movie reviewers noticed the technique…
liberalism is a secular faith concerned to remedy what political scientist Kenneth Minogue called “suffering situations.”
The Numinous Negro - Flashback - National Review Online
Seriously PC, Skin Color was the reason Obama was elected?

Did you miss out on the last ten years? The 2006 congressional election was a referendum on the idiocy of the Iraq War. Republicans at all levels were voted out of office and Donald Rumsfeld paid with his job.

The 2008 election was about the economy. Since 2007, the economy had been in a freefall and the Republicans denied it right up to the election. Remember "The economy is fundamentally strong" from McCain? If skin color were the only reason for Obamas election, why were Republican Congressmen, Senators and Governors also voted out of office? Were they the wrong skin color too?
I think you have quite a valid case had I said "Skin Color was the reason Obama was elected..." as you have posited it.

And, again, your words: "If skin color were the only reason for Obamas election,..."

I like the technique...if you can get away with it.

But that is not quite what I said.

This from my post: "...why many support[ed] him."

I would love to debate the aspect of the Democrat playbook known as 'identity politics,' and then try to give some percentage of the vote that the President garnered due to skin color...but for this thread, I'll stick to 'many' being the operative term.

Of course the soaring oratorial ability must be a large part of the equation, and the economy. But I'll stick with my premise.

Were you able to read the Brookhiser essay?
Are you ready to make the argument that skin color was not a factor to any degree? I thought not.


If you would like to base your thinking on "Did you miss out on the last ten years?" then you are forced to answer this query:
Why was McCain ahead in September, prior to the financial meltdown?
PC...I stand corrected and misread your original post.

Quote:
"if you support pres obama..."
Well, if you will allow me to infract your rule, as I do not support the President, I would like to offer a suggestion as to why many support[ed] him.

Skin color.
I do agree that many people voted for him because of his skin color. 95% of Blacks voted for him but 85% of those would have voted for the Democrat anyway. I also believe that many people did not vote for him because he is black, hates America, hates whites, is a Muslim and was born in Kenya...so I guess race goes both ways.

As to the Brookheiser essay....I read the title "the numinous negro" laughed at how pretentious it was and moved on. Reminds me too much of that Barack the Magic Negro crap

Now as to McCain leading in the polls in early September, it was a momentary bump from Palin and the Republican convention. It quickly faded once people realized what a dimwit Palin was and after McCain had a chance to strut his stuff in the debates
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Old 05-29-2010, 12:23 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Papa Jack View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by del View Post
i thought bush was a terrible pres for the most part, although i did vote for him in 2000 because he wasn't al gore. i voted lib in 2004 and in 2008 i didn't vote for POTUS at all.

if you support pres obama,please tell me why you feel he's a better pres than bush was. from where i sit, it's more business as usual, and if anything, it's more cynical than usual, too.


Let me turn the question around and ask you, in what area are we not now better off than we were on the day Obama took office?

Of course we are in a terrible position on many issues, and they all have to do with our inability to face up to our problems. And, no matter who is president, unless we finally do what we'll have to do on such things as Social Security, Medicare, our Health Care delivery system, our dependence on foreign oil, and what seems to be our willingness to cede Green Technology, which is the next great economic growth area, to our competition, we will continue to slide toward following Greece over the economic edge.

But, back to your question, "why you feel he's a better pres than bush was," pick you category...........be it the economy, wall street, health care, or whatever you wish to discuss........as far as we are from being perfect on anything, we are today in a far, far better place than we were on the day Obama took office.
we may or may not be in a far, far better place, but let's stipulate that we are.
what has obama done, aside from not being george bush, that's gotten us here?
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Old 05-29-2010, 12:25 PM
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Old 05-29-2010, 12:36 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by KissMy View Post
Obama puts on better dog & pony shows with bussed in fake oil clean-up crews, paid fake protesters & fake doctors.

Fake Oil Clean-up
Fake Doctors
Doctor & Pony Show
Doctored Props
Shocking, Faux is critical of Obama.
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Old 05-29-2010, 12:39 PM
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Wait, so the left can claim that people who are opposed to Obama do so because they object to his skin color but . . . . no one voted for Obama because of his skin color? Bullshit.
Are you claiming McCain could have won if Obama was white?

Republicans at all levels of government were voted out of office in 2008. This was because of the collapsing economy, not because all these elections had one candidate who was white and the other was black.
I'm saying that without a doubt there were people who voted for Obama because he was black and yes, this was the only reason for some. Just as there were people who didn't vote for him solely because he was black.

Obama would have won if he were white but I do believe that his being black helped him garner more votes.
So you think the number of white people who feel that strongly moved by our nation's long history of racism is higher than the number of racists? I want some of what you're smoking.
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Old 05-29-2010, 12:49 PM
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Obama does a better job presenting speeches than Bush, but Bush's Bushisms were entertaining and I kinda miss those precious moments.

Obama has kept Gitmo open, even though he campaigned on closing it down. I think this is where reality ran against a campaign slogan.

Another example of reality going against a slogan is with DADT. He assertively campaigned for repealing it, but has not been as active in pursing that repeal as he had led me to believe. I feel like a violated sheep on this.

He basically has the same draw-down policy in Iraq that Bush did, and I think Bush, like Obama, would've increased troop levels in Afghanistan were he still president. So on those two fronts I don't see much of a difference. Kept Gates, too.

Both have supported TARP, and based on how lax Bush was about spending, it doesn't seem like a stretch for me to imagine him signing into law some kind of twelve-figure stimulus bill. If I'm remembering right, Bush's Keynesian rhetoric was similar to Obama's during Oct/Nov/Dec 2008, about how the government needs to save capitalism or some such.

It may be a little too early in Obama's term to compare him completely to Bush II's eight years. As of right now, I don't think Obama is as overall leftist to warrant the hysteria. He's left on some things, moderate on others. I think the reality of the Office pulls newbie Presidents toward the middle, and even more-so when the opposing party controls Congress.

I'm not a big fan of the GOP (I wish they'd step away from the social/religious issues and return to the classical, original, liberalism so that there is an option for decentralized governance; as of right now, they're like Democrats but with different Federal priorities) but I think a mixed Washington is usually a good thing.
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