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01-17-2010, 07:20 PM
|  | Karma Chameleon Member #3136 | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: From the Back of Beyond
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Quote: Originally Posted by SFC Ollie  All these people want to do is get the names so they can post them on the net. Now tell me for what purpose would they want to post these names? It is not for any good reasons. I say the law should protect those names. If you sign a petition that goes to curbing individual freedoms to a certain type of person, then you should have the courage of your convictions and man up....
If people get harassed if they are publicly named, then there are laws to deal with it.
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"Religion attacks us in our deepest integrity by saying we wouldn't be able to make a moral decision without it, and that a supernatural dictatorship is our only hope. That makes us all into serfs. And chess and Tantric sex and Chinese food are pointless if you must enjoy them as a serf.'' Christopher Hitchens.
"You know, the one thing that peeves me about Obama haters and neocons in general is that they live on sound bites. There is no substance to their argument. They think a throw away sentence from the likes of Rush, Hannity or O'Reilly is some intriguing insight, when all it is is a partisan, insipid few words with no hard data or research to back them up." Me |
01-17-2010, 07:20 PM
| | Candidate Good Bar Member #15512  | | Join Date: Dec 2008
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Quote: Originally Posted by Baruch Menachem
Quote: Originally Posted by Wry Catcher This question is soon to be debated in the USSC. I'm of the opinion that a petition is not the same as a vote, and ought to be made public. If someone believes strongly in changing a law by the initiative process, they ought to have the courage of their convictions. IF that is the current standard, then cool. If it is not, then there is something fishy about choosing just this one issue.
My understanding here in Oregon is they just count the names in the local courthouses, then they choose two names and verify the validity of the signature, and use a sampling of 1/15th of the names to determine if the petitions are valid. Then they toss them.
I think the same practice obtains in CA. I think CA has a higher threshold for petitions than we do here in OR.
I have signed several petitions on making marijuana legal. I have never had a visit from the cops because of this. Lets make that the rule. If you signed a petition to eliminate what you thought was a bad law would have repercussions like that, would you sign?
This seems less about how petitions are done, and more about intimidation. And we can't allow intimidation into the process Intimidation is in the eye of the beholder.
The CÁ petition signers have not proven intimidation. A few backers...funders of the petitiin drive...were boycotted and such.
Just because a few people abuse a system is no reason to keep names secret.
If there were a petition to lock up Italians or Jews or Arabs...would you want the signers names kept secret?
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01-17-2010, 07:23 PM
|  | Sewer Worker Member #20321 | | Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: New Jersey
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Rep Power: 169 | | | Petitions are open records. Each signature is open to validation. There is no such thing as an anonymous petition
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Put the car in (D) to drive out of the ditch and put the car in (R) to go back into the ditch. - Obama |
01-17-2010, 07:23 PM
|  | Still Marching Member #21357 | | Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: If I stand on my porch facing East I can Hit PA with a rock
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Quote: Originally Posted by rightwinger Petitions are open records. Each signature is open to validation. There is no such thing as an anonymous petition Validation is not public posting.
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01-17-2010, 07:25 PM
| | Sewer Worker Member #20321 | | Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: New Jersey
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Quote: Originally Posted by SFC Ollie
Quote: Originally Posted by rightwinger Petitions are open records. Each signature is open to validation. There is no such thing as an anonymous petition Validation is not public posting. Any member of the public has a right to examine a petition. It is a public record
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Put the car in (D) to drive out of the ditch and put the car in (R) to go back into the ditch. - Obama |
01-17-2010, 07:30 PM
|  | Secretary of Green Member #11865 | | Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Spokanistan
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Quote: Originally Posted by Wry Catcher How should the USSC vote, and why? By the way, due to a public information bill in Washington State where this started, all petitions are for public viewing. Only your vote is private, which is what is stated in the constituition.
Do I think they should publish their names on a website? no, but people could have petitioned to see the information anyways.
__________________  " In Germany,when the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist. When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat. When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist. When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out."
Rev Martin Niemoeller
"The government can and should stop it. It poses a security and safety risk. The people who are funding it are terrorists". Alliebaba |
01-17-2010, 07:31 PM
| | Secretary of Green Member #11865 | | Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Spokanistan
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Quote: Originally Posted by SFC Ollie
Quote: Originally Posted by rightwinger Petitions are open records. Each signature is open to validation. There is no such thing as an anonymous petition Validation is not public posting. In Washington State petitions are public record.
__________________ " In Germany,when the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist. When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat. When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist. When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out."
Rev Martin Niemoeller
"The government can and should stop it. It poses a security and safety risk. The people who are funding it are terrorists". Alliebaba |
01-17-2010, 07:32 PM
|  | Registered User Member #21265 | | Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Michigan
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Quote: Originally Posted by rightwinger Isn't signing a petition an open declaration of your support? Who ever signed an anonymous petition? Not sure what purpose this petition served. If it was to get a measure on a ballot. The only purpose of that petition is to gather enough valid signatures for making the ballot. I have signed a petition so that the question can be up for a vote, even though against the measure. I have also signed petitions that were to be published in support of a cause. Most documents that a person signs these days have a privacy protection, particularly if your address or other personal information is on the document.
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USA 1776-2010 RIP United Socialist States of America 2010-?
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01-17-2010, 07:36 PM
| | Secretary of Green Member #11865 | | Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Spokanistan
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Quote: Originally Posted by saveliberty
Quote: Originally Posted by rightwinger Isn't signing a petition an open declaration of your support? Who ever signed an anonymous petition? Not sure what purpose this petition served. If it was to get a measure on a ballot. The only purpose of that petition is to gather enough valid signatures for making the ballot. I have signed a petition so that the question can be up for a vote, even though against the measure. I have also signed petitions that were to be published in support of a cause. Most documents that a person signs these days have a privacy protection, particularly if your address or other personal information is on the document. I will say it again, in Washington State where this started petitions are public record. 
If someone wanted to target a person for being against gay rights, they could of just asked to see the petitions. Of course going to the website would have made it easier.
__________________ " In Germany,when the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist. When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat. When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist. When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out."
Rev Martin Niemoeller
"The government can and should stop it. It poses a security and safety risk. The people who are funding it are terrorists". Alliebaba |
01-17-2010, 07:41 PM
|  | Canada! Member #1528 | | Join Date: Jun 2004
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Quote: Originally Posted by Dante
Quote: Originally Posted by Yurt no
your vote is private and a petition is a process in voting. privacy in voting is fundamental. You're wrong.
Petitions are public records. Registering to vote is public too.
Working for a non profit because of public tax breaks, makes the top worker's names and salaries...public.
I can look up when and where you vote... and what party you register with.
Signing a petition is NOT voting.
btw, some votes are public. lol you mental midget (MM)....the OP posed a question...."should"
i gave my opinion, therefore, my opinion is not wrong, it is simply my opinion you ignorant banana peel
__________________ Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It is already tomorrow in Australia.
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01-17-2010, 07:43 PM
| | Registered User Member #21265 | | Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Michigan
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Quote: Originally Posted by Luissa
Quote: Originally Posted by saveliberty
Quote: Originally Posted by rightwinger Isn't signing a petition an open declaration of your support? Who ever signed an anonymous petition? Not sure what purpose this petition served. If it was to get a measure on a ballot. The only purpose of that petition is to gather enough valid signatures for making the ballot. I have signed a petition so that the question can be up for a vote, even though against the measure. I have also signed petitions that were to be published in support of a cause. Most documents that a person signs these days have a privacy protection, particularly if your address or other personal information is on the document. I will say it again, in Washington State where this started petitions are public record.
If someone wanted to target a person for being against gay rights, they could of just asked to see the petitions. Of course going to the website would have made it easier. Every state law is just automatically right in your eyes apparently Luissa? It may have escaped your thought process, but it look like someone is challenging that law at the USSC. A right to privacy when no law has been broken seems like a liberty we should be able to enjoy.
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01-17-2010, 07:45 PM
|  | Seigi no Mitaka Member #11920 | | Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: On a volcano
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Rep Power: 208 | | | So, Louissa answered the question. It is a matter of public record. Public records are open for anyone to view who is willing to pay the fee to view it. Case closed. |
01-17-2010, 08:28 PM
| | Secretary of Green Member #11865 | | Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Spokanistan
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Quote: Originally Posted by saveliberty
Quote: Originally Posted by Luissa
Quote: Originally Posted by saveliberty
Not sure what purpose this petition served. If it was to get a measure on a ballot. The only purpose of that petition is to gather enough valid signatures for making the ballot. I have signed a petition so that the question can be up for a vote, even though against the measure. I have also signed petitions that were to be published in support of a cause. Most documents that a person signs these days have a privacy protection, particularly if your address or other personal information is on the document.
I will say it again, in Washington State where this started petitions are public record.
If someone wanted to target a person for being against gay rights, they could of just asked to see the petitions. Of course going to the website would have made it easier. Every state law is just automatically right in your eyes apparently Luissa? It may have escaped your thought process, but it look like someone is challenging that law at the USSC. A right to privacy when no law has been broken seems like a liberty we should be able to enjoy. I live in Washington state, and I have been hearing about this case for almost two years.
__________________ " In Germany,when the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist. When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat. When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist. When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out."
Rev Martin Niemoeller
"The government can and should stop it. It poses a security and safety risk. The people who are funding it are terrorists". Alliebaba |
01-17-2010, 08:33 PM
| | Secretary of Green Member #11865 | | Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Spokanistan
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Quote: Originally Posted by saveliberty
Quote: Originally Posted by Luissa
Quote: Originally Posted by saveliberty
Not sure what purpose this petition served. If it was to get a measure on a ballot. The only purpose of that petition is to gather enough valid signatures for making the ballot. I have signed a petition so that the question can be up for a vote, even though against the measure. I have also signed petitions that were to be published in support of a cause. Most documents that a person signs these days have a privacy protection, particularly if your address or other personal information is on the document.
I will say it again, in Washington State where this started petitions are public record.
If someone wanted to target a person for being against gay rights, they could of just asked to see the petitions. Of course going to the website would have made it easier. Every state law is just automatically right in your eyes apparently Luissa? It may have escaped your thought process, but it look like someone is challenging that law at the USSC. A right to privacy when no law has been broken seems like a liberty we should be able to enjoy. I also read the newspaper every day, so I know what the law is. 
Supporters of gay rights filed a public records request for the names of everyone who signed the petition and referendum backers objected, saying they feared the signers would be harassed.
Washington Secretary of State Sam Reed and Attorney General Rob McKenna have said the names of people who sign initiative or referendum petitions are public under the state’s Public Records Act. Federal and state judges have disagreed. Most recently, a divided panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled they are public records, but the release of the names has been put on hold pending the appeal to the nation’s highest court. High court to decide on petition signatures - Spokesman.com - Jan. 15, 2010
If you notice the newspaper is Washington State. 
__________________ " In Germany,when the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist. When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat. When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist. When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out."
Rev Martin Niemoeller
"The government can and should stop it. It poses a security and safety risk. The people who are funding it are terrorists". Alliebaba |
01-17-2010, 08:42 PM
| | Canada! Member #1528 | | Join Date: Jun 2004
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Quote: Originally Posted by Dis If I'm going to take the time to read, and sign a petition, then I fully believe in what I'm signing. If someone finds out my name, and what I'm supporting, more power to them. What're they going to do? Tell me I'm wrong? Threaten to kick my ass?
Whatever. what if you owned a small business....say a coffee shop.
__________________ Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It is already tomorrow in Australia.
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