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Are some people simply born evil??

This is a discussion on Are some people simply born evil?? within the Philosophy forums, part of the Hobbies category; http://ec.libsyn.com/p/0/b/1/0b15a3e...5&c_id=1778986 "If the Lord must be disappointed in us men and our ways, so must be the Devil in the face of such courage, love, ...


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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 08:44 AM
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http://ec.libsyn.com/p/0/b/1/0b15a3e...5&c_id=1778986


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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2012, 06:51 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by skye View Post
It depends ... it's a nature versus nurture debate.

If the child was abused and didn't know what love was ... that will help in him or her becoming a criminal.

People have negative genes in them when they are born... and if they grow up in an atmosphere conductive to crime ... yes .... they will become serial murders probably.
Negative genes? Okay...we'll call it that...but I'll go on record right now and say that I believe some kids are born bad. I know that's not a politically correct way to think of children...but what about people like Jeffery Dahmer and so forth? Doctors have stated that his parents were pretty normal, all American, middle class folks and that Jeffery had a pretty normal upbringing. That flies in the face of nuture only. Nature has to have something to do with it...negative genes or whatever.

Quote: Originally Posted by Wiseacre View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by midcan5 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Wiseacre View Post

I think evil requires a knowledge of right and wrong, and no one is born with that.
Neither would we say a child is born good for the same reason. But that is too simple and sometimes we need to look at extremes. Consider gays or transsexuals or any number of behaviors that are rooted in the person and not some learned or reasoned behavior. What is the source of these behaviors? What leads to good or bad people and if it is only learned then can we say anyone is good or bad. Nature v Nurture returns.

Consider Capgras or the person who feels their leg does not belong to them and they must get rid of it or psychopaths. In some cases brain injuries cause these actions but why in this particular form. Here's a piece to ponder.

VS Ramachandran: 3 clues to understanding your brain | Video on TED.com


Apotemnophilia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think sexual preference is more likely to be a genetic disposition you're born with. Not so sure about socio- or psychopaths, but it could also be genetic. But that leads to a question about evil - is it evil if you don't realize what you're is wrong?
If sexual orientation can be genetic...and a tendency to certain diseases genetic...why not a propensity towards evil as well? I see no difference with calling it genetic...although I can also understand how environment may aggravate a sitiation with a child as well.

Quote: Originally Posted by midcan5 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Wiseacre View Post
I think sexual preference is more likely to be a genetic disposition you're born with. Not so sure about socio- or psychopaths, but it could also be genetic. But that leads to a question about evil - is it evil if you don't realize what you're is wrong?
I will answer that later with a reference to Hitler, our favorite evil.

It may be that there are propensities rather than specific traits or genes. I have read that many CEO have psychopathic type personalities. Their behavior presents, by some interpretations a kind of careless, thoughtless activity that forgets moral boundaries. Having meet a few ceos I'd have to disagree, but then how do I know deep down where they get their emotions and ideas from? I was fascinated by how quickly Americans lost their sense of reflection after 911. 'Turn the other cheek' may be in the bible but few consider it. Any study of history shows fear, intolerance, excessive faith in one's own beliefs, dehumanization of others, victimizing, group think, ethnocentrism, xenophobia lead to bad places. When does empathy enter the conversation, I was listening to a conversation the other day on the so called fiscal cliff and the importance of a balanced approach. Now consider what that means morally. It means that some handicapped or poverty level children must give up some care and the wealthy person must forgo another Bentley. Exaggeration yes, but who suffers more.

"Evil is not to be traced back to the individual but to the collective behavior of humanity." Reinhold Niebuhr
Why should humanity take the blame for a child being born bad? If we limit reproduction among "at risk" people with "iffy" genes...that's playing God. I kind of think of it as a hit or miss thing.

I don't want anyone to think that I'm excusing the parents...cause good parenting is essential in raising productive human beings. But I also think that parents can bang their heads against the wall trying to do everything right and low and behond that child turns out to be a Jeffery Dahmer. Go figure! I think it's something in the genetic makeup.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2012, 09:07 PM
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Are some people simply born evil?

ginscpy, et al,

This "may" (repeat "may") be more genetic than moral or ethical in your conscience. It might be amplified by your environment.

Quote: Originally Posted by ginscpy View Post
Like hitmen.

You could never pay me enough/any money to take another human life.

Except in self-defense or as a soldier in a war.
(COMMENT)

These are just two examples (MAO-A and VMAT-2) that, in conjunction, they could produce a religious fanatic or terrorist. In some measure, they may produce hundreds --- out of millions --- a cadre of spiritual followers ready to activate.

We "may" be all hard-wired to be what we are; amplified by our environment and teachings. The clergyman, tinker, tailor, soldiers, or terrorist.

(QUESTION)
  • Are some people simply born evil?
Answer: It is very possible; built into your genetic code.
Most Respectfully,
R

NOTES:
Abstract:
Monoamine oxidase A gene (MAOA) has earned the nickname “warrior gene” because it has been linked to aggression in observational and survey-based studies. However, no controlled experimental studies have tested whether the warrior gene actually drives behavioral manifestations of these tendencies. We report an experiment, synthesizing work in psychology and behavioral economics, which demonstrates that aggression occurs with greater intensity and frequency as provocation is experimentally manipulated upwards, especially among low activity MAOA (MAOA-L) subjects. In this study, subjects paid to punish those they believed had taken money from them by administering varying amounts of unpleasantly hot (spicy) sauce to their opponent. There is some evidence of a main effect for genotype and some evidence for a gene by environment interaction, such that MAOA is less associated with the occurrence of aggression in a low provocation condition, but significantly predicts such behavior in a high provocation situation. This new evidence for genetic influences on aggression and punishment behavior complicates characterizations of humans as “altruistic” punishers and supports theories of cooperation that propose mixed strategies in the population. It also suggests important implications for the role of individual variance in genetic factors contributing to everyday behaviors and decisions.
SOURCE: Monoamine oxidase A gene (MAOA) predicts behavioral aggression following provocation
Entrez Gene summary for MAOA:
This gene is one of two neighboring gene family members that encode mitochondrial enzymes which catalyze the oxidative deamination of amines, such as dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. Mutation of this gene results in Brunner syndrome. This gene has also been associated with a variety of other psychiatric disorders, including antisocial behavior. Alternatively spliced transcript variants encoding multiple isoforms have been observed. (provided by RefSeq, Jul 2012)
SOURCE: MAOA monoamine oxidase A [Homo sapiens] - Gene - NCBI
Vmat2, or the God Gene: Reading Spirituality in the Human Genome:
As the research is still premature, it is difficult to formulate an opinion regarding the matter. The discovery of vmat2 seems to imply that spirituality is equivalent to a genetic phenomenon, such as eye color or the inherited predisposition for a particular disease. Incomplete penetrance could account for why some individuals are more spiritual than others, Mendel's 1st law of segregation could account for why spirituality may skip a few generations in a family, and genetic mutations could account for religious fanaticism.
SOUrCE:
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 12-14-2012, 05:37 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ginscpy View Post
Like hitmen.

You could never pay me enough/any money to take another human life.

Except in self-defense or as a soldier in a war.
I don't believe that people are "born" evil, but rather become highly dysfunctional as a result of negative experiences, bad parenting, and predisposing factors which bring out a higher tendency toward horrendous actions.
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:19 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Truthmatters View Post
brain wiring.

yes some people are born with improper brain wiring for human compassion.
I don't suppose you'd like to address the issue of "improper wiring" for logical thought?

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Old 12-14-2012, 07:20 PM
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I do not believe anyone is born "evil", rather, depending on a variety of factors they simply have disregard for the rights of others. That "disregard" can manifest itself in severity depending on what societal mores are. For example, polygamy may be considered evil by some cultures and may be the norm in others. In the society that condemns polygamy the person may be considered evil.

Good and evil are very subjective measures for which society has punishment and reward systems.
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Old 01-01-2013, 12:17 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ginscpy View Post
Like hitmen.

You could never pay me enough/any money to take another human life.

Except in self-defense or as a soldier in a war.
No, people are not born evil.
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Old 01-20-2013, 01:15 AM
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Granny says lil' babies is like a blank slate...

... it depends on what kind of environment dey is born into...

... an' what dey are taught an' experience in dat environment...

... an' what dey are allowed or not allowed to get away with.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:11 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ginscpy View Post
Like hitmen.

You could never pay me enough/any money to take another human life.

Except in self-defense or as a soldier in a war.
Some people are born mentally unstable. This may lead them to not have a conscience which could lead to a career as a hit man. They just wouldn't care. Some people turn evil because of abuse. I don't know what the numbers are, but I do know that the majority of rapists were sexually abused themselves at some point, usually as children. As for being born evil, I don't think so.
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:03 PM
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The real question for me, is what is evil?
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:59 PM
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No one is born evil.

That is programmed into them by the republican right.
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Old 08-19-2013, 11:51 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ginscpy View Post
Like hitmen.

You could never pay me enough/any money to take another human life.

Except in self-defense or as a soldier in a war.

All criminals are enemies of the human race and must be exterminated even before they kill anybody. We have no moral obligation to give them a second chance. That usually means a second chance to harm more people, so we are abetting crime with that attitude.

This includes the mentally defective who commit crime. Letting them off because "it's not their fault" is also ignoring their victims. We should not let them live, because life is a right that has to be earned.

The ruling class turns loose criminals to distract us from our duty to overthrow a ruling class that would do that.
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Old 08-25-2013, 02:24 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by skye View Post
It depends ... it's a nature versus nurture debate.

If the child was abused and didn't know what love was ... that will help in him or her becoming a criminal.

People have negative genes in them when they are born... and if they grow up in an atmosphere conductive to crime ... yes .... they will become serial murders probably.
Quote: Originally Posted by Wiseacre View Post
I don't think so. I think babies are born with an empty slate, their upbringing and circumstances pretty much determine their personality by the time they're 10 years old. I do think people can change after that, but it ain't easy.
I know from first hand experience, that people can be born of the same parents, raised together all of their childhoods by the same parents in the same environment, and be very different people, including one being very messed up, very bad (a social misfit, sociopathic behavior, end up in prison for violent crimes, etc.) and the other children in the family lead very normal lives with no sociopathic behavior or violence. What accounts for this? It isn't down to abuse, and the child, the 'bad seed,' had the same home life and parenting as his/her siblings.

I think it has to do with a weakness of character that the child is born with. It's a roulette roll basically, what we end up with genetically. I don't think any child is born bad, but everyone is born with certain weaknesses, and in some people those weaknesses lead to very bad choices which snowball or accumulate into more bad choices and more bad choices until pathology develops and they become a sociopath or psychopath.

I agree with the idea that you can often see that this process has begun and implanted itself in the person by the time they are ten years old.

However, there is also true mental illness, like schizophrenia, which is most likely somewhere in the genes but hidden until the person reaches young adulthood and then it develops. I think people with untreated schizophrenia do very evil things but they are mentally ill and having true delusions. We hear stories of such people, like the guy who did the massacre in the theater in Arizona. By all accounts he was a normal person until a year or so before the massacre. If he indeed has schizophrenia, it means he went insane with it and was controlled by the illness and the delusions of the illness. (I'm not trying to excuse his behavior or even say with certainty he has schizophrenia; I'm saying if he does.)

It may also be that people can make themselves appear normal, but be harboring very bad (I don't like the word evil as it has religious connotations), sociopathic behavior, inside and their actions are restrained until a time when they lose control and the sociopathic behavior emerges in full force, like the Craig's List killer.

But, for the most part, in my opinion, people are born with personality characteristics that develop as we develop and weaknesses or strengths develop due to a combination of those characteristics and personal choices.
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Old 08-25-2013, 02:34 AM
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Holy resurrection Batman!

And hitmen are not automatically evil.
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Old 08-25-2013, 02:42 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ginscpy View Post
Like hitmen.

You could never pay me enough/any money to take another human life.

Except in self-defense or as a soldier in a war.
Everyone in the armed forces is capable of being a murderer in theory. A hitman is just a soldier for hire. He gets his orders just like a private in a land war that is ordered to kill an "enemy" without remorse or any investigation as to whether his victim is guilty of anything.

At least a hitman is usually well aquainted with his assigned target.

A CIA type killer is also usually well informed of his enemy. It's not like TV. It's not like in the movies. CIA assassins ferret out spies and other enemy assassins and kill them and dispose of the corpses.

I knew such a man. He was a good man and a hero to our country in my eyes. I liked him and respected him. He was one of my dads best friends. They knew each other in college before the man was recruited by the government to do this kind of work.

Yes some people are evil. It depends on who you care about protecting that decides who is evil sometimes.
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