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09-05-2008, 03:43 AM
|  | Oh yes it is too! | | Join Date: Aug 2008
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Rep Power: 10 | | | Another reason an overstretched military is a bad idea.
I heard this on the radio today. Suicide among the military is about to pass last year's record high.
The contributing factors are things like strained relationships and stress from repeated deployments.
I hate this aggressive foreign policy that Bush has ushered in and McCain believes so strongly in. I just hate it. Bush never even served. He started a war NOT as a last resort. He manipulated intelligence. He said he thought it was God's will. We continue to pay for his swagger. washingtonpost.com
I apologize if this post is out of line.
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"It was built by working men and women who dug into what little savings they had to give five dollars and ten dollars and twenty dollars to this cause. It grew strength from the young people who rejected the myth of their generation's apathy; who left their homes and their families for jobs that offered little pay and less sleep; from the not-so-young people who braved the bitter cold and scorching heat to knock on the doors of perfect strangers; from the millions of Americans who volunteered, and organized, and proved that more than two centuries later, a government of the people, by the people and for the people has not perished from this Earth. This is your victory." -Barack Obama, November 4th 2008
Last edited by Caligirl; 09-05-2008 at 03:44 AM.
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09-05-2008, 08:01 AM
| | beware of dogma junkies | | Join Date: Feb 2008
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Rep Power: 205 | | | It isn't out of line. It's sad. |
09-05-2008, 08:21 AM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: North Carolina
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Originally Posted by Caligirl  I heard this on the radio today. Suicide among the military is about to pass last year's record high.
The contributing factors are things like strained relationships and stress from repeated deployments.
I hate this aggressive foreign policy that Bush has ushered in and McCain believes so strongly in. I just hate it. Bush never even served. He started a war NOT as a last resort. He manipulated intelligence. He said he thought it was God's will. We continue to pay for his swagger. washingtonpost.com
I apologize if this post is out of line. | Bush DID serve as a fighter pilot in the Air National Guard, flying one of the Air Forces most accident prone aircraft. He flew more hours then required as well. Clinton is the only recent President that has no military experience at all, having lied to get a deferrment and then skipping the country to Britain to avoid even the ROTC.
May want to "fact" check your posts in the future.
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09-05-2008, 09:20 AM
| | Mr. Forgot-it-All | | Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Maine
Posts: 6,630
Rep Power: 43 | | Post combat veterans have always had a rather high incidence of suicides.
Not exactly sure why.
I'm not sure if the Iraq Vets suicide statistics are any better or worse than America's previous wars. Quote: (CNN) -- The risk of suicide among male U.S. veterans is double that of the general population, according to a study published Monday.
"We need to be more alert to the problem of suicide as a major public health issue and we need to do better screening among individuals who have served in the military, probe for their mental health risk as well as gun availability," said Dr. Mark S. Kaplan, professor of community health at Portland State University in Oregon, lead author of the study in the Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health.
For 12 years, Kaplan and his team of researchers followed more than 104,000 veterans who had served in the armed forces at some time between 1917 and 1994 and compared them with more than 216,000 non-veterans.
In all, between 1986 and 1997, 508 of them committed suicide -- 197 veterans and 311 non-veterans.
After adjusting for a host of potentially compounding factors, including age, time of service and health status, the study showed that those who had been in the military were 2.13 times more likely to die of suicide over time.
At biggest risk were veterans who were white, those who had gone to college and those with activity limitations, according to the study, which was funded by the National Institute of Mental Health.
| The "activity limitations" might explain a lot of it though.
Assuming that term means people who are wounded badly enough to handicap them, one could easily see how that population of otherwise healthy younger men might elect to give themselves that most final of all discharges from active duty.
Perhaps it would make better sense to do a study that did not include those vets who were wounded if we're going to compare those stats to a non-veteran population.
Or, if we wanted to study wounded vets, it might behoove the researcher to compare them to recently handicapped civilians of the same age and so forth.
But, and I think I speak with a lot of personal experience in this area, having worked with this population a lot as a neuropshyciatric tech in the NAV during Viet Nam, something drastic happens to the mindset of a lot men recently returning from combat.
They tend to take higher risks, are more prone to violent outbursts, and do have a rather higher incidence of suicides (and attempts of same) than non-combat military personnel, that's for damned sure.
Call it post tramatic stress disorder, call it shell shock, whatever, but it appears to me that combat doesn't appear to give some percentage of us a healthy mindset for returning to civilian life.
I wasn't even in combat but having to deal with those who were, (and those who were most obviously psychologically damaged by it) made me more than just a little nuts, too, I think.  |
09-05-2008, 11:44 AM
| | Oh yes it is too! | | Join Date: Aug 2008
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Originally Posted by RetiredGySgt Bush DID serve as a fighter pilot in the Air National Guard, flying one of the Air Forces most accident prone aircraft. He flew more hours then required as well. Clinton is the only recent President that has no military experience at all, having lied to get a deferrment and then skipping the country to Britain to avoid even the ROTC.
May want to "fact" check your posts in the future. | That's good to know, I guess the media hype forgot to include that part. Thanks.
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"It was built by working men and women who dug into what little savings they had to give five dollars and ten dollars and twenty dollars to this cause. It grew strength from the young people who rejected the myth of their generation's apathy; who left their homes and their families for jobs that offered little pay and less sleep; from the not-so-young people who braved the bitter cold and scorching heat to knock on the doors of perfect strangers; from the millions of Americans who volunteered, and organized, and proved that more than two centuries later, a government of the people, by the people and for the people has not perished from this Earth. This is your victory." -Barack Obama, November 4th 2008 |
09-05-2008, 11:47 AM
| | Oh yes it is too! | | Join Date: Aug 2008
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Originally Posted by Ravi It isn't out of line. It's sad. | Yeah, it is, and I wonder what we are going to do to get these guys and gals the help they need. I remember hearing about this last year, and that they were improving the psych resources on the bases or something like this. They were really trying to get it under control, no luck.
I know too many people that have killed themself. A friend of mine, her daughter recently tried, thank goodness she failed and got treatment and is doing better.
Do any of the military people here think the notion of a draft has any possibility? I mean, I guess I am saying that this doesn't seem like a good indicator is all.
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"It was built by working men and women who dug into what little savings they had to give five dollars and ten dollars and twenty dollars to this cause. It grew strength from the young people who rejected the myth of their generation's apathy; who left their homes and their families for jobs that offered little pay and less sleep; from the not-so-young people who braved the bitter cold and scorching heat to knock on the doors of perfect strangers; from the millions of Americans who volunteered, and organized, and proved that more than two centuries later, a government of the people, by the people and for the people has not perished from this Earth. This is your victory." -Barack Obama, November 4th 2008
Last edited by Caligirl; 09-05-2008 at 11:55 AM.
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09-05-2008, 11:52 AM
| | Oh yes it is too! | | Join Date: Aug 2008
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Originally Posted by editec Post combat veterans have always had a rather high incidence of suicides.
Not exactly sure why.
I'm not sure if the Iraq Vets suicide statistics are any better or worse than America's previous wars.
The "activity limitations" might explain a lot of it though.
Assuming that term means people who are wounded badly enough to handicap them, one could easily see how that population of otherwise healthy younger men might elect to give themselves that most final of all discharges from active duty.
Perhaps it would make better sense to do a study that did not include those vets who were wounded if we're going to compare those stats to a non-veteran population.
Or, if we wanted to study wounded vets, it might behoove the researcher to compare them to recently handicapped civilians of the same age and so forth.
But, and I think I speak with a lot of personal experience in this area, having worked with this population a lot as a neuropshyciatric tech in the NAV during Viet Nam, something drastic happens to the mindset of a lot men recently returning from combat.
They tend to take higher risks, are more prone to violent outbursts, and do have a rather higher incidence of suicides (and attempts of same) than non-combat military personnel, that's for damned sure.
Call it post tramatic stress disorder, call it shell shock, whatever, but it appears to me that combat doesn't appear to give some percentage of us a healthy mindset for returning to civilian life.
I wasn't even in combat but having to deal with those who were, (and those who were most obviously psychologically damaged by it) made me more than just a little nuts, too, I think. | Thanks for the interesting thoughts. Burying our kid was enough to make me (and a fair number of other bereaved parents say the same) think about suicide for a while. It hurt like hell, and for me, there was no one (very few) around who understood. it was very isolating. And it was a period of time where the world looks completely different, which is to say that you reach a point where you decide that either you are crazy or everyone else around you is.
When I hear military spouses saying that most americans aren't really living the reality of the wars, because we aren't seeing the images and so on, I think about that period. These traumatic sorts of things can be hell on your mind.
The restrained activity link sounds very reasonable as well.
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"It was built by working men and women who dug into what little savings they had to give five dollars and ten dollars and twenty dollars to this cause. It grew strength from the young people who rejected the myth of their generation's apathy; who left their homes and their families for jobs that offered little pay and less sleep; from the not-so-young people who braved the bitter cold and scorching heat to knock on the doors of perfect strangers; from the millions of Americans who volunteered, and organized, and proved that more than two centuries later, a government of the people, by the people and for the people has not perished from this Earth. This is your victory." -Barack Obama, November 4th 2008
Last edited by Caligirl; 09-05-2008 at 11:53 AM.
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09-05-2008, 11:57 AM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2008
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Rep Power: 2 | | | Obama will spread the military even further than McCain will.
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09-05-2008, 11:58 AM
| | Oh yes it is too! | | Join Date: Aug 2008
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Rep Power: 10 | | | How is that?
Thanks in advance.
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"It was built by working men and women who dug into what little savings they had to give five dollars and ten dollars and twenty dollars to this cause. It grew strength from the young people who rejected the myth of their generation's apathy; who left their homes and their families for jobs that offered little pay and less sleep; from the not-so-young people who braved the bitter cold and scorching heat to knock on the doors of perfect strangers; from the millions of Americans who volunteered, and organized, and proved that more than two centuries later, a government of the people, by the people and for the people has not perished from this Earth. This is your victory." -Barack Obama, November 4th 2008 |
09-05-2008, 12:33 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2008
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Rep Power: 2 | | | Listening to all that he has said he wants to take some troops out of iraq put more in Afghanistan and invade iran which would cause a need for more troops in iraq
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"The sergeant is the Army."
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
- General Dwight D. Eisenhower
IM ONLY GOING TO ARGUE WITH YOU IF YOU'RE WRONG |
09-05-2008, 12:34 PM
| | beware of dogma junkies | | Join Date: Feb 2008
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Originally Posted by Mr. President Listening to all that he has said he wants to take some troops out of iraq put more in Afghanistan and invade iran which would cause a need for more troops in iraq | Obama wants to invade Iran?
Sweet! |
09-05-2008, 12:38 PM
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Rep Power: 2 | | | Watch
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"The sergeant is the Army."
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
- General Dwight D. Eisenhower
IM ONLY GOING TO ARGUE WITH YOU IF YOU'RE WRONG |
09-05-2008, 12:41 PM
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Rep Power: 2 | | | I will bring to the White House an unshakable commitment to Israel’s security. That starts with ensuring Israel’s qualitative military advantage, …” Obama told AIPAC. “I will ensure Israel can defend itself from any threat, from Gaza to Tehran. …
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"The sergeant is the Army."
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
- General Dwight D. Eisenhower
IM ONLY GOING TO ARGUE WITH YOU IF YOU'RE WRONG |
09-05-2008, 12:46 PM
|  | wanasiasa wapumbava | | Join Date: May 2008 Location: PA
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Rep Power: 11 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. President I will bring to the White House an unshakable commitment to Israel’s security. That starts with ensuring Israel’s qualitative military advantage, …” Obama told AIPAC. “I will ensure Israel can defend itself from any threat, from Gaza to Tehran. … | i didnt know declaring support of israel is the same as declaring war on iran. interesting.
it really is sad to see stuff like this happening to our troops. i personnally have a friend who married a man in the army. he was a nice guy, a missionary kid, before going to iraq. the last time he was home he hit his wife several times and smothered her with a pillow until she passed out; in the same room as their baby. but he will be in the army for the next 5 1/2 years.
yeah, that really makes me want to keep our soldiers in iraq
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09-05-2008, 12:51 PM
|  | Liberals are Liars | | Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: The beautiful Yadkin Valley
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Originally Posted by Caligirl I heard this on the radio today. Suicide among the military is about to pass last year's record high.
The contributing factors are things like strained relationships and stress from repeated deployments.
I hate this aggressive foreign policy that Bush has ushered in and McCain believes so strongly in. I just hate it. Bush never even served. He started a war NOT as a last resort. He manipulated intelligence. He said he thought it was God's will. We continue to pay for his swagger. washingtonpost.com
I apologize if this post is out of line. | All the more reason to double their pay and attract more into the military. There must be hundreds of useless social programs, none of which are authorized by the Constitution, that we can eliminate to pay for those that are without raising taxes. | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes |  Linear Mode | 
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