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02-27-2008, 08:22 PM
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,333154,00.html Quote:
Marines Call New Body Armor Heavy, Impractical
Wednesday, February 27, 2008
By Jennifer Griffin
BAGHDAD, Iraq —
The Pentagon and Marine Corps authorized the purchase of 84,000 bulletproof vests in 2006 that not only are too heavy but are so impractical that some U.S. Marines are asking for their old vests back so they can remain agile enough to fight.
Marine Commandant Gen. James Conway wants to know who authorized the costly purchase of the nearly 30-pound flak jackets and has ordered the Marine procurement officers at the Quantico base in Virginia to halt the rest of an unfilled order, FOX News has learned.
"I’m not quite sure how we got to where we are, but what I do know is it is not a winner," Conway told FOX News at the end of his recent trip to Iraq.
"I think it is foolish to buy more."
• Click here to view photos.
Twenty-four thousand more vests were scheduled to be shipped to Iraq in the coming months, but Conway halted that order during his trip.
"I’ve asked them to tell me — to walk me through — the whole process ... how it evolved," Conway said.
"It goes back a couple of years. I think the vest has its advantages. It fits pretty well on the waist. The weight is distributed more evenly on the hips than shoulders, but Marines don’t like it. I didn’t like it when I put it on."
The protective jackets, manufactured by Protective Products International in Sunrise, Fla., are known as Modular Tactical Vests, or MTVs. With heavy plates, known as sappis, on their sides, they provide more coverage than the older vests. That makes them much safer but also much heavier. The MTVs have more protection than the older "Interceptor," made by Point Blank, and they distribute weight more evenly.
The new vests, weighing in at about 30 pounds each, are three lbs. more than previous regulation body armor. Marines, who are already carrying up to 95 lbs. depending on the mission, say they feel the difference.
The vest slips over the head, but one Marine said that because of its weight, it often rips the skin off one’s nose and scrapes the ears.
It also has a rip cord that allows for quick release should the fighter fall into water. But many Marines say the cord is hard to reach and often gets caught on equipment in their vehicles. They say it literally falls apart; one Marine said it was like getting caught in battle with your pants around your ankles.
Marines are issued an instructional video to learn how to use the vest properly.
The Marine commandant and his sergeant major, Carlton Kent, became aware of the problem during a Thanksgiving visit to Iraq. At town hall meetings, few Marines raised their hands when asked if they liked the new equipment.
Conway and his team refused to wear the vests during their visit to Iraq last week due to their weight and impracticality.
Marine Corps Systems Command, in a written statement to FOX News, said it responded in January 2006 to an Urgent Universal Need Statement from the field for better protective gear and awarded the contract in September 2006 after a series of user conferences at Quantico and in consultation with the Marine Expeditionary Forces.
The order was placed before Conway became commandant in November 2006.
Marine spokesman Lt. Col. TV Johnson said the problem with the vests is not that they are unsafe or impractical.
"Marines are still able to run and climb walls with the gear. The fact that the additional protection adds weight, and that the means of getting in and out of it "over-the-head" seem to be the chief complaints," Johnson told FOX News in an email.
"In Desert Storm, we wore flack jackets that were a fraction of the weight of the lighter vest we wore before the MTV. They wouldn't, however, stop a bullet or even a knife, so if I were going to a gunfight, I know what piece of gear I'd take," said Johnson.
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FOX News National Security Correspondent Jennifer Griffin was traveling with the Marine Commandant to Iraq and Afghanistan last week. This report is part of a multi-part series also appearing on Special Report with Brit Hume at 6 pm ET.
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02-27-2008, 09:55 PM
|  | Administrator | | Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Republic of Texas
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The Pentagon and Marine Corps authorized the purchase of 84,000 bulletproof vests in 2006 that not only are too heavy but are so impractical that some U.S. Marines are asking for their old vests back so they can remain agile enough to fight.
Marine Commandant Gen. James Conway wants to know who authorized the costly purchase of the nearly 30-pound flak jackets and has ordered the Marine procurement officers at the Quantico base in Virginia to halt the rest of an unfilled order, FOX News has learned.
"I’m not quite sure how we got to where we are, but what I do know is it is not a winner," Conway told FOX News at the end of his recent trip to Iraq.
"I think it is foolish to buy more."
| After ALL that bullshit .... LMFAO! 
A 30 lb flak jacket? GMAFB. How about medeival armor? 
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02-27-2008, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by GunnyL  After ALL that bullshit .... LMFAO!
A 30 lb flak jacket? GMAFB. How about medeival armor? | A frikin mazing. The interceptors we got in 02 were worlds better than the kevlar flaks from the 80's, but, thanks to the media.........
Thirty pounds....... man, am I glad they never handed one of those to me.
__________________ As a Public Service I placed an interactive election map on my blog. It'll be up for a week at least.
I'm Phil -- 40ish male, self sufficient, great with my kids, wed 25 years, and believe that ones actions have logical consequences. How much more out the box can you get nowadays? -- MSgt of Marines (ret) Independent Glossary: Poor - someone who has little; Rich - someone who has lots; Middle Class - Someone who has the problems of each w/o any of the advantages. Middle of the road - Someone who gets hit by traffic in both directions. Straight party ticket = Voting for dummies |
02-28-2008, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by pegwinn A frikin mazing. The interceptors we got in 02 were worlds better than the kevlar flaks from the 80's, but, thanks to the media.........
Thirty pounds....... man, am I glad they never handed one of those to me. | No kiddin', huh? As if we don't have enough garbage to hump ....
And wouldn't you just LOVE to go down in a bird over the water with one of those on?
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02-28-2008, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by GunnyL No kiddin', huh? As if we don't have enough garbage to hump ....
And wouldn't you just LOVE to go down in a bird over the water with one of those on? | Where is Matt to explain to us how this was a "good" idea?
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02-28-2008, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by GunnyL No kiddin', huh? As if we don't have enough garbage to hump ....
And wouldn't you just LOVE to go down in a bird over the water with one of those on? | Oh shit, hadn't thought of that. Picture rapelling or fast roping... not pretty.
__________________ As a Public Service I placed an interactive election map on my blog. It'll be up for a week at least.
I'm Phil -- 40ish male, self sufficient, great with my kids, wed 25 years, and believe that ones actions have logical consequences. How much more out the box can you get nowadays? -- MSgt of Marines (ret) Independent Glossary: Poor - someone who has little; Rich - someone who has lots; Middle Class - Someone who has the problems of each w/o any of the advantages. Middle of the road - Someone who gets hit by traffic in both directions. Straight party ticket = Voting for dummies |
02-28-2008, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by pegwinn Oh shit, hadn't thought of that. Picture rapelling or fast roping... not pretty. |
Rapelling might go over, but you'd have an argument on your hands trying to get me to fastrope onto a moving deck with 30 extra pounds. Yet another great idea from those who don't have a clue what they've been rambling on about for years.
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02-28-2008, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by RetiredGySgt Where is Matt to explain to us how this was a "good" idea? | Matts obviously speaks from misguided idealism. He's nowhere near as bad as the idiots that have tried to use this issue as a political ploy to make bullshit accusations for the past 6+ years.
You know ... the ones you DON'T see in this thread. But they'll be back next week with the same accusation as if this info was never posted.
It never fails.
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02-28-2008, 10:24 PM
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Rep Power: 57 | | | What really bites is the folks who screech about armored hummers and body armor delays. I don't mind listening to opinions and ideas for improvement, but the ones that screech just to make the noise.......
__________________ As a Public Service I placed an interactive election map on my blog. It'll be up for a week at least.
I'm Phil -- 40ish male, self sufficient, great with my kids, wed 25 years, and believe that ones actions have logical consequences. How much more out the box can you get nowadays? -- MSgt of Marines (ret) Independent Glossary: Poor - someone who has little; Rich - someone who has lots; Middle Class - Someone who has the problems of each w/o any of the advantages. Middle of the road - Someone who gets hit by traffic in both directions. Straight party ticket = Voting for dummies |
02-28-2008, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by pegwinn What really bites is the folks who screech about armored hummers and body armor delays. I don't mind listening to opinions and ideas for improvement, but the ones that screech just to make the noise....... | I hear ya ...
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02-29-2008, 08:46 AM
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Rep Power: 79 | | | Well, you would have thought that Bush would have designed a better device .... er....the President is responsible for designing, manufacturing and issuing body armor, isn't he? Especially on Tuesdays, when he is not building, equipping and inspecting military hospitals.
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02-29-2008, 07:29 PM
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Rep Power: 57 | | | No, on Tuesdays he is responsible for personally adding the supplimental armor kits to the hummers. They've been available for years at the CO's option, but we cannot expect him to trust thier professional judgement now can we? Of course I never went to college and we know where I ended up right?
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I'm Phil -- 40ish male, self sufficient, great with my kids, wed 25 years, and believe that ones actions have logical consequences. How much more out the box can you get nowadays? -- MSgt of Marines (ret) Independent Glossary: Poor - someone who has little; Rich - someone who has lots; Middle Class - Someone who has the problems of each w/o any of the advantages. Middle of the road - Someone who gets hit by traffic in both directions. Straight party ticket = Voting for dummies | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes |  Linear Mode | 
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