tp://tinyurl.com/2r282a

So the shrink didn't back down and bucked up. Good for him. The military eats its own. I know that, you know that, and every vet on this board knows that.

Most officers I knew would have cowered at being questioned and taken the hint to go quietly back to their holes. I have to wonder would this doctor have done the same for an enlisted man.

Actually, no I don't. I saw too many good Marines get hung out to dry by the chair-polishing weasels and few (and yes there are/were those few) that were willing to risk a few marks down on the all-important fitrep.

That is the ugly side of the military, but anyone who has served has seen it.

Oh, and rayboyUSMC, to clarify: having not served with you that I am aware of and not knowing you personally, my comments are not directed at you personally.

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“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing” - Edmund Burke

Kudos to the Colonel.

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POLITICAL ACTIVISTS CREED
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brushfires in people's minds"
-Samuel Adams

The majority of Marine Officers that I served with would have stood up for their troops.

The problem with our system is that to get to the top, 0-6 and on, you may have to kiss a lot of ass just like Colonel Hackworth used to write about. There are a lot of his "perfumed princes" who infect the Pentagon like cockaroaches feeding off the crumbs of their senior officers.

I don't think this is a hell of a lot different than the civilian sector that I have worked in for almost 20 years since I retired. Unless you have real leaders at the top, shit will often rise above the cream.

Next to Smedley Butler, you might want to read up on LtCol Evans Carlson. He was a real leader who valued his men and accomplished the mission. Highest kill ratio and lowest casualty ratio. WW II First Raider Battalion.

Too many weasels make it to the top because organizations reward the wrong behaviors.

I agree completely!

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"In a rich society, no one should be allowed to suffer from deprivation such as homelessness, starvation and illness. This ideal is essential, not simply as a matter of human good, but as the price we pay for a measure of domestic tranquility. "

John Kenneth Galbraith

Evans Carlson was also a bigtime socialist.

When did you retire, might I ask? The Corps changed drastically from the time I enlisted to the time I retired.

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“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing” - Edmund Burke

Yup by the mid 90's when I retired there was a whole crop of officers that had been taught that there was no room for any failure or mistakes at all.

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The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd. Indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.

-Bertrand Russell

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable

-Laurence J. Peters

I never said that you had no right to have an opinion. I just said that it was, in fact, worth nothing.

-Maineman ( on 12 June 2007)

Yeah, the called it the "zero defect mentality" and told us we were supposed to not do it. When I joined, you could screw up, pay the piper and it was forgotten. If you screwed up by the mid-90s you might as well start hitting jobsearch on google.

Yet they couldn't figure out why no wanted to hang it out on a limb and do a b billet.

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“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing” - Edmund Burke

Retired in 88. I didn't see a lot of change in the Corps culture when I was in.

I completely enjoyed my tour. I was just ready to move on to other things, didn't want to go back to Washington or Okinawa, the promotions had slowed down completely and Florida was a good place to retire then.

I think today the military is a whole different kettle of fish. Not sure what exactly it is, but it is different.

It's very different. I enjoyed my tour as well, and did not mean to give any other impression. Like you, it was just time for me to move on. Part of that decision was made based on the fact the Corps I retired from was not the Corps I had joined. Sometimes for better, sometimes for the worse.

One of the reasons I JOINED was to get the Hell away from Miami though and retiring there had NO appeal for me.

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“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing” - Edmund Burke

Interesting comments by everyone.

It happened about 86 I think. The promotions were so slow and they were starting the high year tenure. Might've been as late as 88 but certainly before the 90's.

Suddenly an office hours was a killer if you wanted to re-up. And there were no more career SSgts. Up or out meant that you had to rise above your natural best and that meant you were bound to fuck up. I knew several twenty year great SSgts. A few would have made a good Gunny, but most had reached the limit of comfortable competence.

Overall I think our Corps got better with time. But like anything there were spikes. The biggest foul up was also that around the same time the micromanagement got so bad that Cpl's and Sgts became Pvt E4's and Pvt E5's. Hell, as a PFC I was getting career advice from LCpl's and Cpl's with hashmarks.

Fortunately war changed that quick, fast, and in a hurry.

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As a Public Service I placed an interactive election map on my blog. It'll be up for a week at least.

I'm Phil -- 40ish male, self sufficient, great with my kids, wed 25 years, and believe that ones actions have logical consequences. How much more out the box can you get nowadays? -- MSgt of Marines (ret)

Independent Glossary:
Poor - someone who has little;
Rich - someone who has lots;
Middle Class - Someone who has the problems of each w/o any of the advantages.

Middle of the road - Someone who gets hit by traffic in both directions.

Straight party ticket = Voting for dummies