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12-30-2007, 07:13 AM
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"We are fighting today for our life, for our liberty, for our all, we cannot go on being led as we are. Somehow or other, we must get into the Government men who can match our enemies in fighting spirit, in daring, in resolution and in thirst for victory."~Leo Amery 1940, while staring at Chamberlain
Last edited by Annie; 12-31-2007 at 02:51 PM.
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12-31-2007, 07:08 AM
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Rep Power: 166 | | | So are all these "sayings" yours or are you taking them from somewhere and not giving credit where credit is due?
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The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd. Indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.
-Bertrand Russell
Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable
-Laurence J. Peters
I never said that you had no right to have an opinion. I just said that it was, in fact, worth nothing.
-Maineman ( on 12 June 2007) |
12-31-2007, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by RetiredGySgt  So are all these "sayings" yours or are you taking them from somewhere and not giving credit where credit is due? | I think it interesting that the only ones to comment, were likely not military. 
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"We are fighting today for our life, for our liberty, for our all, we cannot go on being led as we are. Somehow or other, we must get into the Government men who can match our enemies in fighting spirit, in daring, in resolution and in thirst for victory."~Leo Amery 1940, while staring at Chamberlain |
12-31-2007, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by R. Crookshank The sayings of others are in “quotes” - the rest are my own acquired by much learning and more experience.
This thread initially poked fun at the military; however, I think that we can all agree that the army is serious business. Certainly, jest has its proper moment, but the rest of the hour should be devoted to serious discussion. | The original post did not poke fun at the military. It was a humorous piece, written by someone who is still serving.
What are the sources of your 'learning and experience'?
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"We are fighting today for our life, for our liberty, for our all, we cannot go on being led as we are. Somehow or other, we must get into the Government men who can match our enemies in fighting spirit, in daring, in resolution and in thirst for victory."~Leo Amery 1940, while staring at Chamberlain |
12-31-2007, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by R. Crookshank The sayings of others are referenced by attribution, citation or direct quotes - the rest are my own acquired by much learning and more experience.
This thread initially poked fun at the military; however, I think that we can all agree that the army is serious business. Certainly, jest has its proper moment, but the rest of the hour should be devoted to serious discussion. | So #3 is all your original thoughts, acquired by much learning and more experience? I mean there are no "quote marks", nor attribution, nor citations. Funny how you deleted the recent post on the topic and replaced it: Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Crookshank View Post
The sayings of others are in “quotes” - the rest are my own acquired by much learning and more experience.
This thread initially poked fun at the military; however, I think that we can all agree that the army is serious business. Certainly, jest has its proper moment, but the rest of the hour should be devoted to serious discussion.
| and replaced it with: Quote: The sayings of others are referenced by attribution, citation or direct quotes - the rest are my own acquired by much learning and more experience.
This thread initially poked fun at the military; however, I think that we can all agree that the army is serious business. Certainly, jest has its proper moment, but the rest of the hour should be devoted to serious discussion.
|
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"We are fighting today for our life, for our liberty, for our all, we cannot go on being led as we are. Somehow or other, we must get into the Government men who can match our enemies in fighting spirit, in daring, in resolution and in thirst for victory."~Leo Amery 1940, while staring at Chamberlain |
12-31-2007, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by R. Crookshank The original post was deleted to make the noted correction regarding attribution, citation or direct quote. For example in Post #3, supra, I wrote: it is said that an army marches on its stomach; (emphasis added); which phrase is not in "quotes" but attributed to the saying of another and not myself.
As for your personal question regarding my learning and experience, I am considered a scholar in several areas of academic discipline, including military science; and I previously served as a regular army commissioned officer with experience leading men in combat. | Now that's clarification. Thank you. So you teach military science?
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"We are fighting today for our life, for our liberty, for our all, we cannot go on being led as we are. Somehow or other, we must get into the Government men who can match our enemies in fighting spirit, in daring, in resolution and in thirst for victory."~Leo Amery 1940, while staring at Chamberlain |
12-31-2007, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by R. Crookshank No. My credentials are that I am a graduate of the U.S. Army Infantry School Advanced Course (IOAC), and the Army War College (two-year correspondence course). I served two tours of duty in Vietnam; the first as a combat commander with units of the 101st Airborne Division, and the second as a combat advisor with the U.S. Military Assistance Command Vietnam (MACV). I resigned my commission at the end of the Vietnam war to read for law; and am now retired after thirty years federal practice. My continued interest in military science is purely academic. | Then, thank you for your service! Now as for the serious discussion, it would be a better idea IMO if you had started your own thread rather than derailing mine.
There was no 'poking fun' at the military in the OP, well perhaps a bit to Navy and Air Force,  but to be expected considering the writer.
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"We are fighting today for our life, for our liberty, for our all, we cannot go on being led as we are. Somehow or other, we must get into the Government men who can match our enemies in fighting spirit, in daring, in resolution and in thirst for victory."~Leo Amery 1940, while staring at Chamberlain |
12-31-2007, 08:47 AM
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Rep Power: 20 | | | what is this nonsense about derailing threads anyway. does that mean whenever you post something all you want to hear is kudos or what ? I have never really understood this derailing reference one person post one opinion that you don't like and what its game over your thread been ruined ? it seems to me that is the nature of a thread or conversation is that it starts with a topic and can branch off into other areas .often times ,like in this case far more interesting than the original post
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"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it or their revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it." -- Abraham Lincoln, 4 April 1861
Remember, remember, the 11th of september The Gunpowder Treason and plot;
I see of no reason why Gunpowder Treason
Should ever be forgot.....
Last edited by eots; 12-31-2007 at 08:49 AM.
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12-31-2007, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by eots what is this nonsense about derailing threads anyway. does that mean whenever you post something all you want to hear is kudos or what ? I have never really understood this derailing reference one person post one opinion that you don't like and what its game over your thread been ruined ? it seems to me that is the nature of a thread or conversation is that it starts with a topic and can branch off into other areas .often times ,like in this case far more interesting than the original post | That is surely a matter of opinion. 
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Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.-KC Theisen
"Statistics: The only science that enables different experts using the same figures to draw different conclusions." — Evan Esar
Vigilance is the price of liberty. - Motto of SHAPE
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies." —Groucho Marx |
12-31-2007, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by trobinett That is surely a matter of opinion. | hey get back on topic then ! I believe it was some stupid cartoon and this stuff about preemptively whacking all possible future threats or something
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"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it or their revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it." -- Abraham Lincoln, 4 April 1861
Remember, remember, the 11th of september The Gunpowder Treason and plot;
I see of no reason why Gunpowder Treason
Should ever be forgot..... |
12-31-2007, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by R. Crookshank “That’s why we have an Army and not just a Navy and an Air Force with trillions of dollars worth of super weapons.”
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Kathianne: With your permission, I would like to post a serious comment on the above-quoted reference in the parodied Field Manual regarding the current state of our armed forces. | Sure if your heart is just set upon doing so. First though, I think I'll add a bit to what you're quoting, just so it can be seen for the pointed parody it was written as: Quote:
FM 3-0 Operations for SAMS Students
1. The world is full of bad people. Mind you, not everyone is bad, but there are enough of them out there that we have to arm ourselves. Over the years, we’ve done a pretty good job of that. When the bad people scare us or hurt us, we have to whack them. This is hard, because you want to try and whack the bad people where they live and not where we live. Naturally, the bad people don’t want to get whacked, and they feel pretty smug because we aren’t mean enough to whack all of them at once. So we have to go over to where they live and whack them carefully. That’s why we have an Army and not just a Navy and an Air Force with trillions of dollars worth of super weapons. We don’t get such expensive weapons, because we break them a lot more rapidly. Even worse, the bad people can get close enough that they can whack Soldiers even though they get whacked a lot more.
2. Whacking bad people is dangerous. It’s also hard. It’s easier and safer to whack the bad people if you do it from the air or the ocean. That’s because the bad people can’t afford the super weapons that do stuff from there. That’s why we have to be nice to the Navy and Air Force; so they will whack bad people with great enthusiasm. Unfortunately, sometimes the Navy and Air Force get too enthusiastic at whacking people and they hurt Army Soldiers and other not so bad people that ended up in the wrong place. That’s why we have to spend a lot of effort telling them where we are and what we need them to do. We also try to stay out of their way when they are too busy whacking cities and countries and stuff. We also have to do a lot of explaining to civilian bureaucrats about what they need to do to clean up after the bad people get whacked. This is called “unified action” but it’s really like going over to the neighbors to apologize for breaking their window.
3. What makes this really hard is sorting out the not so bad people from the bad people. We try to whack the bad guys and miss the good guys. Of course, the not so bad people are all upset that we are over there whacking people. They want us to go back to where we live and leave them alone, unless the bad people are whacking them as well. They tend to go postal unless we help them keep their families alive and well. The best way to do that is to let their politicians and police do it while they stay out of our way. Unfortunately, their politicians and police screw this up a lot so we have to take time out from whacking the bad guys (or tricking the Air Force and Navy into doing that) and help out the not so bad people around us. Even though they won’t like us, sometimes they help us to find the bad people. This also helps us calm down the Air Force guys who would whack everybody at once. This is called “full spectrum operations.”
....
|
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"We are fighting today for our life, for our liberty, for our all, we cannot go on being led as we are. Somehow or other, we must get into the Government men who can match our enemies in fighting spirit, in daring, in resolution and in thirst for victory."~Leo Amery 1940, while staring at Chamberlain |
12-31-2007, 01:18 PM
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Rep Power: 238 | | | CS, don't you think that the success of the surge, the rejection of what went before already proves your point? Rumsfeld's ideas worked fine for invasion, but failed miserably in keeping the peace, do you think you are the only one who saw that?
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"We are fighting today for our life, for our liberty, for our all, we cannot go on being led as we are. Somehow or other, we must get into the Government men who can match our enemies in fighting spirit, in daring, in resolution and in thirst for victory."~Leo Amery 1940, while staring at Chamberlain |
12-31-2007, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by eots hey get back on topic then ! I believe it was some stupid cartoon and this stuff about preemptively whacking all possible future threats or something | Well, THAT certainly clears it up................ 
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Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.-KC Theisen
"Statistics: The only science that enables different experts using the same figures to draw different conclusions." — Evan Esar
Vigilance is the price of liberty. - Motto of SHAPE
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies." —Groucho Marx |
12-31-2007, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by R. Crookshank The success of the initial invasion (which was planned and executed under the Division organization) was offset by the failure of the subsequent occupation. The generals told Rumsfeld that we needed more troops on the ground to do the job; but he wouldn’t listen to them; and replaced any that opposed him with “yes-men.” The new “Surge” strategy is an admission of the fact; but, for the same reason (i.e., not enough troops), is doomed to failure. As retired Gen. John Batiste (former commander of the First Infantry Division) said: “He (Rumsfeld) served up our great military a huge bowl of chicken feces, and ever since then, our military and our country have been trying to turn that bowl into chicken salad; and it’s not working.” | Good job of recapping what I said in response to your post.
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"We are fighting today for our life, for our liberty, for our all, we cannot go on being led as we are. Somehow or other, we must get into the Government men who can match our enemies in fighting spirit, in daring, in resolution and in thirst for victory."~Leo Amery 1940, while staring at Chamberlain |
12-31-2007, 02:18 PM
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Rep Power: 166 | | | The claim that there were not enough National Guard or regular forces to help in Katrina is a bald faced LIE. 2/3rd of the National Guard in that state and others were still IN state. The Military was prepared to respond as well, but the Governor refused for 3 critical days to ask for them, playing then a game of "they should have come" knowing that until she signed or otherwise legally authorized their deployment, they could do nothing.
Further she placed the Guard in HER neck of the woods, not deployed to New Orleans, so that after the strorm with all the roads and most of the landing areas destroyed or blocked they couldn't get there quickly to help.
If Bush had illegally ordered the Army in with OUT the Governors authority we would now be listening to you and others claiming he tried to usurp her Authority and power.
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The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd. Indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.
-Bertrand Russell
Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable
-Laurence J. Peters
I never said that you had no right to have an opinion. I just said that it was, in fact, worth nothing.
-Maineman ( on 12 June 2007) | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes |  Linear Mode | 
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