After listening to you leftoids claim Bush was a coward for being a fighter pilot in the Air National Guard, I can see why Doctors wouldn't want to get labeled the same by you winners.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071203/...rgeon_shortage

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The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd. Indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.

-Bertrand Russell

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable

-Laurence J. Peters

I never said that you had no right to have an opinion. I just said that it was, in fact, worth nothing.

-Maineman ( on 12 June 2007)

the guard has changed a lot since Vietnam...by their own admission, they were a dodge to avoid Nam.... I had several acquaintances fromn high school who joined the national guard for the express purpose of avoiding the jungles of southeast asia. Were they cowards? tough question. I would guess that, today, they would say that they had no desire to end their young lives in a war that didn't make any sense.

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"In a rich society, no one should be allowed to suffer from deprivation such as homelessness, starvation and illness. This ideal is essential, not simply as a matter of human good, but as the price we pay for a measure of domestic tranquility. "

John Kenneth Galbraith

Only 7,000 or 8,000 national guard troops were deployed to Vietnam.

Was as close to a guarantee of not going as one could get. There was a draft then, so the guard wasn't needed.

Now, how many guardsmen got sent to Iraq again?

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"Trust none of what you hear And less of what you see" Springsteen
When the Founding Fathers protected our right to free speech, I think that meant we were supposed to use it.
69 days left http://www.backwardsbush.com/

Actually, 23,000 National Guardsmen were called to active duty and 8,700 actually deployed to VN. The real guarantee of not going was to get a college deferrment.

You and MM ave now convinced me that anyone who joined the Guard after WW II and up to the mid 70s was a yellow bellied coward...thanks!

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"Why, it appears that we appointed all of our worst generals to command the armies and we appointed all of our best generals to edit the newspapers. I mean, I found by reading a newspaper that these editor generals saw all of the defects plainly from the start but didn't tell me until it was too late. I'm willing to yield my place to these best generals and I'll do my best for the cause by editing a newspaper." -- Gen. Robert E. Lee

Dick Cheney, John Asscroft etc

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"I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." Richard Dawkins

In my post I SAID that's how many went to Vietnam. And a college deferment wasn't a total guarantee..... I worked for someone who's college deferment got pulled by the FBI because of his anti-war activism. He failed the physical, though.

But you're also changing the subject, because the point was that in the Vietnam Era people jumped through lots of hoops to get into the guard to avoid Nam.

__________________
"Trust none of what you hear And less of what you see" Springsteen
When the Founding Fathers protected our right to free speech, I think that meant we were supposed to use it.
69 days left http://www.backwardsbush.com/

come on...don't put words in my mouth.

I didn't say that and you know it.

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"In a rich society, no one should be allowed to suffer from deprivation such as homelessness, starvation and illness. This ideal is essential, not simply as a matter of human good, but as the price we pay for a measure of domestic tranquility. "

John Kenneth Galbraith

From an excerpt adapted from Chapter II of The Air National Guard: A Short History, by Dr. Charles J. Gross, National Guard Bureau Historical Services Division, 1994.

"Vietnam revealed a negative aspect of relying on reservists. For largely domestic political reasons, President Johnson chose not to mobilize most of the nation's reserve forces. The 1968 callups were only token affairs. Johnson's decision to avoid a major reserve mobilization was opposed by the senior leadership of both the active duty military establishment and the reserve forces, but to no avail. The Reserves and the Guard acquired reputations as draft havens for relatively affluent young white men. Military leaders questioned the wisdom of depending on reserve forces that might not be available except in dire emergencies."

http://www.ang.af.mil/history/Forging.asp

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"In a rich society, no one should be allowed to suffer from deprivation such as homelessness, starvation and illness. This ideal is essential, not simply as a matter of human good, but as the price we pay for a measure of domestic tranquility. "

John Kenneth Galbraith

Assumption on your part.

Joining the Guard was no guarantee one wouldn't go to Vietnam. Regardless the number, the fact remains Nat'l Guardsmen served in Vietnam. I grew up in the military during the Vietnam War era and I certainly never heard it labelled such.

The simplest solution is to expand the regular forces. The Guard serves at a higher percentage now than then because the active duty force is about 1/2 - 2/3s the size it was then.

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You can't always be first .... but you CAN be NEXT

Sarcasm....guess you didn't recognize it because you seldom use it yourself.

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"Why, it appears that we appointed all of our worst generals to command the armies and we appointed all of our best generals to edit the newspapers. I mean, I found by reading a newspaper that these editor generals saw all of the defects plainly from the start but didn't tell me until it was too late. I'm willing to yield my place to these best generals and I'll do my best for the cause by editing a newspaper." -- Gen. Robert E. Lee

I wasn't arguing with you over your numbers....in fact, I was verifying them and expanding on your assertions.

I am not changing the subject either; the implication (and by some posters...the assertion) is that Bush was a coward because he joined the Guard. MY point is that many got college deferments as well; some went to Canada....some went to Viet Nam.

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"Why, it appears that we appointed all of our worst generals to command the armies and we appointed all of our best generals to edit the newspapers. I mean, I found by reading a newspaper that these editor generals saw all of the defects plainly from the start but didn't tell me until it was too late. I'm willing to yield my place to these best generals and I'll do my best for the cause by editing a newspaper." -- Gen. Robert E. Lee

Yep...them too...right along with Bill Clinton and various and sundry other libs/Dems/anti-military folks.

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"Why, it appears that we appointed all of our worst generals to command the armies and we appointed all of our best generals to edit the newspapers. I mean, I found by reading a newspaper that these editor generals saw all of the defects plainly from the start but didn't tell me until it was too late. I'm willing to yield my place to these best generals and I'll do my best for the cause by editing a newspaper." -- Gen. Robert E. Lee

Some lied to get deferrments then skipped the Country to England too.

__________________
The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd. Indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.

-Bertrand Russell

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable

-Laurence J. Peters

I never said that you had no right to have an opinion. I just said that it was, in fact, worth nothing.

-Maineman ( on 12 June 2007)

the fact is: the guard's own literature acknowledges that it was a haven for rich white kids to avoid Nam.

Are THEY lying?

__________________
"In a rich society, no one should be allowed to suffer from deprivation such as homelessness, starvation and illness. This ideal is essential, not simply as a matter of human good, but as the price we pay for a measure of domestic tranquility. "

John Kenneth Galbraith

No it doesn't. It says there was a perception of that. But then facts have never been your strong point.

__________________
The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd. Indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.

-Bertrand Russell

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable

-Laurence J. Peters

I never said that you had no right to have an opinion. I just said that it was, in fact, worth nothing.

-Maineman ( on 12 June 2007)