As a Military member on active duty stationed at a military installation with medical facilities one has NEVER had the right to go check themselves into VA or civilian hospitals EVER. AWOL is ABSENT WITHOUT LEAVE. By abandoning his command and "checking himself" into any facility outside the military chain he fits the charge and should have been arrested as he was and returned to military control.

Further read the article, the man was National Guard and VOLUNTEERED to go active AFTER his first tour. Umm why would he, after taking a 20 thousand dollar bonus then expect to never be sent BACK to Iraq?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071120/...soldier_arrest

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The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd. Indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.

-Bertrand Russell

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable

-Laurence J. Peters

I never said that you had no right to have an opinion. I just said that it was, in fact, worth nothing.

-Maineman ( on 12 June 2007)

I have a hunch this will blow over and he will be discharged, with perhaps a slap on the wrist. Could it be that his military doctors dropped the ball?

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BUSH-BASHER entoto and proud to be.

I thought you had a problem with condemning soldiers of a crime, before they have formally been investigated and convicted?

Based on the article he was absent without leave, which is a chargeable offense in the military.

Further, personnel on active duty have no right to VA services since they received active duty services.

Further, if he is dissatisfied with services received he has every right to go to the Inspector General assigned to the hospital on the Fort; which, is the proper action to take.

Whether or not he is trying to pull a fast one or actually has PTSD is irrelevant, and not really for any of US to say.

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“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing” - Edmund Burke

from RSG's article:

Allegedly. Hmmmm...


don't worry, I get it.

You and RSG have two different standards: One for John Murtha, and one for yourselves.

Got it.

You are aware that the term "alleged" is standard in all such stories? The simple act of checking himself into the VA hospital was against military law and regulation. Further the Military does not arrest people for AWOL unless they in fact ARE AWOL.

Ohh and to help you just a little, being one minute late to a formation is in fact AWOL. Though I suspect this fellow was a tad bit longer AWOL. We have his OWN words to go by as to his intent and purpose.

__________________
The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd. Indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.

-Bertrand Russell

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable

-Laurence J. Peters

I never said that you had no right to have an opinion. I just said that it was, in fact, worth nothing.

-Maineman ( on 12 June 2007)

According to the article, he was unable to get the assistance of appropriate medical assistance from the military. Given that we know how long the wait, even for evaluation for PTSD, is it impossible to imagine this being correct.

Funny how we view this differently. Me? I see a desperate guy, sick and in trouble who couldn't get the help he needed and who was being re-rotated into the situation which made him sick in the first place.

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"Trust none of what you hear And less of what you see" Springsteen

When the Founding Fathers protected our right to free speech, I think that meant we were supposed to use it.

Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi was the world's most unhinged lunatic. He's now dead. So that moves Ann Coulter up to first place - David Letterman

O, when she is angry she is keen and shrewd; / She was a vixen when she went to school, / And though she be but little, she is fierce. — Shakespeare

51 days left http://www.backwardsbush.com/

How do you figure? He was either AWOL or not. If he was, then the CO will decide whether or not to press charges. I don't.

That does not negate the fact he did not follow proper procedure.

It's obvious YOU have two different standards ... one for your left-wingnut POV and another for everyone who doesn't hold the same.

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“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing” - Edmund Burke

Its really pathetic that one, you apply a different standard to yourself than you do to john murtha. And two, in spite of your alleged military experience, you are unaware that a charge of AWOL becomes an adminstrative and legal procedure, in which your guilt (if any) is determined adminstratively or through legal proceeding.


You've already convicted this guy.

Its really pathetic how unprincipled you are.

And I see a guy that took 20k and then tries to weasel out of his commitment. The military takes mental health VERY seriously. They do NOT play around with it. Every NCO and up is taught to watch for problems and see that anyone they even sorta suspect has a problem gets help. And this was in the Peace Time Military. There is absolutely NO way I believe that the medical staff at his Fort did not evaluate him and take his claims serious. Hell for all we know he is AWOL because he did not go to the Fort Hospital and went to the VA instead.

__________________
The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd. Indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.

-Bertrand Russell

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable

-Laurence J. Peters

I never said that you had no right to have an opinion. I just said that it was, in fact, worth nothing.

-Maineman ( on 12 June 2007)

What I read is he didn't go through the apporopriate chain of command. If he felt he wasn't getting good care, he goes to the IG, not the VA. You don't go to the VA until you are completely out of the service, either retired or discharged.

How we see it different is you want to immediately swallow his sob story while I leave it to the doctors to diagnose. He wouldn't be the first person I saw trying to pull a fast one to get out of deployment, nor would he be the first person I saw diagnosed with PTSD.

Since military units do not regularly pursue personnel who are AWOL/UA, it would be MY best guess that the VA called his unit, rather than his unit conducting some manhunt to find a single junior enlisted soldier.

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“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing” - Edmund Burke

How can you make that judgment without any sort of insight into the case itself?

I work in an office with a Dept. of VA officer. My mother was a VA nurse. I have yet to hear anybody speak flippantly of PTSD or desire to provide any but the best care, in whatever way they are best able.

I guess I just don't automatically assume that criminals can't be held accountable, and the blame should always be placed elsewhere. I say look at the guy first, then hang the system.

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Poor Spot! He was tired of being thought of as stupid. "I'm gonna join Mensa," he said to myself, "and then I'll be legally permitted to wear the society's insignia--a tattoo of a little map pin pushed into my flesh--and then everyone'll know that I'm not dumb at all!"
Spot Joins Mensa
by James "Kibo" Parry

Is there anything at which you don't consider yourself expert? So far every conversation, whether about lawyers, therapists, the VA or anything else, you tell a story about how you do that kind of work.

Don't you think that sounds kind of shakey?

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"Trust none of what you hear And less of what you see" Springsteen

When the Founding Fathers protected our right to free speech, I think that meant we were supposed to use it.

Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi was the world's most unhinged lunatic. He's now dead. So that moves Ann Coulter up to first place - David Letterman

O, when she is angry she is keen and shrewd; / She was a vixen when she went to school, / And though she be but little, she is fierce. — Shakespeare

51 days left http://www.backwardsbush.com/

LOL

Not to mention there is no "Department of the VA". Its the Veterans Adminstration. Period. No one who knows the slightest thing about it calls it the "Department of VA". That's not its name. I'm calling bullshit. lol

http://www.va.gov/

I think I'll make a bullshit call too....Just for some idiots that never heard of the United States Department of Veterans Affairs....

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_________________________________________
Biden was asked, 'Is he ready?' He answered, 'I think he can be ready but right now, I don't believe he is.
The presidency is not something that lends itself to on-the-job training.'
"I think that I stand by the statement," Biden (the smartest of the two)