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11-17-2007, 02:56 PM
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Army desertion rate highest since 1980 Army Desertion Rates Rise 80 Percent Since Invasion of Iraq in 2003
AP News
Nov 16, 2007 18:41 EST
Soldiers strained by six years at war are deserting their posts at the highest rate since 1980, with the number of Army deserters this year showing an 80 percent increase since the United States invaded Iraq in 2003.
While the totals are still far lower than they were during the Vietnam War, when the draft was in effect, they show a steady increase over the past four years and a 42 percent jump since last year.
"We're asking a lot of soldiers these days," said Roy Wallace, director of plans and resources for Army personnel. "They're humans. They have all sorts of issues back home and other places like that. So, I'm sure it has to do with the stress of being a soldier."
The Army defines a deserter as someone who has been absent without leave for longer than 30 days. The soldier is then discharged as a deserter.
According to the Army, about nine in every 1,000 soldiers deserted in fiscal year 2007, which ended Sept. 30, compared to nearly seven per 1,000 a year earlier. Overall, 4,698 soldiers deserted this year, compared to 3,301 last year.
The increase comes as the Army continues to bear the brunt of the war demands with many soldiers serving repeated, lengthy tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. Military leaders — including Army Chief of Staff Gen. George Casey — have acknowledged that the Army has been stretched nearly to the breaking point by the combat. Efforts are under way to increase the size of the Army and Marine Corps to lessen the burden and give troops more time off between deployments. http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila..._11162007.html  |
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11-17-2007, 03:03 PM
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...Army desertion rates have fluctuated since the Vietnam War — when they peaked at 5 percent. In the 1970s they hovered between 1 and 3 percent, which is up to three out of every 100 soldiers. Those rates plunged in the 1980s and early 1990s to between 2 and 3 out of every 1,000 soldiers.
Desertions began to creep up in the late 1990s into the turn of the century, when the U.S. conducted an air war in Kosovo and later sent peacekeeping troops there.
The numbers declined in 2003 and 2004, in the early years of the Iraq war, but then began to increase steadily.
In contrast, the Navy has seen a steady decline in deserters since 2001, going from 3,665 that year to 1,129 in 2007.
The Marine Corps, meanwhile, has seen the number of deserters stay fairly stable over that timeframe — with about 1,000 deserters a year. During 2003 and 2004 — the first two years of the Iraq war — the number of deserters fell to 877 and 744, respectively.
The Air Force can tout the fewest number of deserters — with no more than 56 bolting in each of the past five years. The low was in fiscal 2007, with just 16 deserters.
Despite the continued increase in Army desertions, however, an Associated Press examination of Pentagon figures earlier this year showed that the military does little to find those who bolt, and rarely prosecutes the ones they find. Some are allowed to simply return to their units, while most are given less-than-honorable discharges.
"My personal opinion is the only way to stop desertions is to change the climate ... how they are living and doing what they need to do," said Wallace, adding that good officers and more attention from Army leaders could "go a long way to stemming desertions."
Unlike those in the Vietnam era, deserters from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars may not find Canada a safe haven.
Just this week, the Supreme Court of Canada refused to hear the appeals of two Army deserters who sought refugee status to avoid the war in Iraq. The ruling left them without a legal basis to stay in Canada and dealt a blow to other Americans in similar circumstances...
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11-17-2007, 03:36 PM
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The Air Force can tout the fewest number of deserters — with no more than 56 bolting in each of the past five years. The low was in fiscal 2007, with just 16 deserters.
| I wouldn't expect anything less from a branch that let's the officers do their fighting. 
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11-17-2007, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by DeadCanDance  Army desertion rate highest since 1980 Army Desertion Rates Rise 80 Percent Since Invasion of Iraq in 2003
AP News
Nov 16, 2007 18:41 EST
Soldiers strained by six years at war are deserting their posts at the highest rate since 1980, with the number of Army deserters this year showing an 80 percent increase since the United States invaded Iraq in 2003.
While the totals are still far lower than they were during the Vietnam War, when the draft was in effect, they show a steady increase over the past four years and a 42 percent jump since last year.
"We're asking a lot of soldiers these days," said Roy Wallace, director of plans and resources for Army personnel. "They're humans. They have all sorts of issues back home and other places like that. So, I'm sure it has to do with the stress of being a soldier."
The Army defines a deserter as someone who has been absent without leave for longer than 30 days. The soldier is then discharged as a deserter.
According to the Army, about nine in every 1,000 soldiers deserted in fiscal year 2007, which ended Sept. 30, compared to nearly seven per 1,000 a year earlier. Overall, 4,698 soldiers deserted this year, compared to 3,301 last year.
The increase comes as the Army continues to bear the brunt of the war demands with many soldiers serving repeated, lengthy tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. Military leaders — including Army Chief of Staff Gen. George Casey — have acknowledged that the Army has been stretched nearly to the breaking point by the combat. Efforts are under way to increase the size of the Army and Marine Corps to lessen the burden and give troops more time off between deployments. http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila..._11162007.html | Already posted and as for SKYROCKETING.... I suggest you actually read the piece, it is still less than one percent , now instead of 4 people per one thousand deserting we have 9, yup that is sure a HUGE number. Further MORE people make it through the first 6 months of training then ever before so it is even less of a problem. But do play that MSM bent, I notice you like to cite them when you agree with them and then vilify them the rest of the time.
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11-21-2007, 10:20 PM
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Rep Power: 16 | | If the officers did more fighting and less posturing there'd be much less war and casualties, don't you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by 82Marine89 I wouldn't expect anything less from a branch that let's the officers do their fighting. | Oliver North and GWBUSH prove that analogy enough on it's on, don't you think?
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11-24-2007, 12:34 PM
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Rep Power: 19 | | People join the military for lots of reasons. Even within one person, we can probably find more than one reason for enlisting, with these reasons having different weights for different people.
It is undeniable that there are some people who join the military for mainly personal reasons: it seems like a good career choice; it represents an escape from an intolerable personal situation; it is a way of proving something to oneself.
During peacetime, military service will be challenging enough. But during a war, one's resolve is tested. People who joined mainly as a way to get money for college, or to learn a skill, are suddenly faced with the reality that makes the military different from every other job in the world, even dangerous jobs: you are not allowed to quit. You are not even allowed to decline an assignment.
For some people, this is too much. Those whose reasons for enlisting were purely personal, may find that they really do not want to risk their lives.
Also: the amount of support for the war in which they are called to serve will be a big factor in how they feel about their service.
It cannot be denied that the majority of American people are not enthusiastic about this war. Even the ones who supported it, showed little inclination to enlist and put their own bodies on the line.
So it is not surprising that desertion rates are up.
But liberals should not be too quick to trumpet this figure about, as proof that the war should not have been fought.
A war can be a just war, and worth fighting, and yet see high desertion rates.
What American war was more worth fighting, than the Civil War, which held together the Union, and ended slavery. Yet there were 200,000 deserters from the Union Armies during that war. (Details here .) No doubt pro-Confederate agitators in the North were pleased about this, and publicized the fact of desertion as an argument that the war should not have been fought in the first place, and should be ended immediately, etc.
Thank God they were ignored then. (And can you imagine the outcry, should President Bush even suggest applying the penalty that President Lincoln applied to deserters?)
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11-24-2007, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug People join the military for lots of reasons. Even within one person, we can probably find more than one reason for enlisting, with these reasons having different weights for different people.
It is undeniable that there are some people who join the military for mainly personal reasons: it seems like a good career choice; it represents an escape from an intolerable personal situation; it is a way of proving something to oneself.
During peacetime, military service will be challenging enough. But during a war, one's resolve is tested. People who joined mainly as a way to get money for college, or to learn a skill, are suddenly faced with the reality that makes the military different from every other job in the world, even dangerous jobs: you are not allowed to quit. You are not even allowed to decline an assignment. However, there is no one currently serving that did not know that they are serving in 'war time.'
For some people, this is too much. Those whose reasons for enlisting were purely personal, may find that they really do not want to risk their lives.
Also: the amount of support for the war in which they are called to serve will be a big factor in how they feel about their service.
It cannot be denied that the majority of American people are not enthusiastic about this war. Even the ones who supported it, showed little inclination to enlist and put their own bodies on the line.
So it is not surprising that desertion rates are up.
But liberals should not be too quick to trumpet this figure about, as proof that the war should not have been fought.
A war can be a just war, and worth fighting, and yet see high desertion rates.
What American war was more worth fighting, than the Civil War, which held together the Union, and ended slavery. Yet there were 200,000 deserters from the Union Armies during that war. (Details here .) No doubt pro-Confederate agitators in the North were pleased about this, and publicized the fact of desertion as an argument that the war should not have been fought in the first place, and should be ended immediately, etc.
Thank God they were ignored then. (And can you imagine the outcry, should President Bush even suggest applying the penalty that President Lincoln applied to deserters?) | Pretty good post, Doug. The desertion rates are not 'skyrocketing', that was debunked in several threads. However, you are correct about wartime being a test, re-enlistment rates are way up, while recruiting remains difficult. However their sacrifices are acknowledged by those who care:
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11-24-2007, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Psychoblues If the officers did more fighting and less posturing there'd be much less war and casualties, don't you think?
Oliver North and GWBUSH prove that analogy enough on it's on, don't you think? | Give it a rest Captain obvious! 
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11-25-2007, 02:51 PM
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Rep Power: 15 | | | In response to the inititial post: And re-enlistment percentages are at an all-time high!
Of course there will always be the weak who eventually become deserters. They should be put in the Brig for the false loyalty they promised to the country. MAKES ME SICK! |
11-25-2007, 03:04 PM
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Rep Power: 57 | | | I doubt that everyone who goes AWOL is weak and cowardly. That's probably what Bush fans would like to believe.
The fact is, there are probably many reasons soldiers go AWOL. Not the least of which, they don't want to fight in your illegal and immoral war. Especially after having served one or two tours already. If you want to toss them all into jail, you're entitled to your opinion. As for me: I'd look at it on a case by case basis, using existing adminstrative and judicial tools.
I don't think Jesus would have fought in your immoral war. I think he would have gone AWOL. Doesn't make him a coward. |
11-25-2007, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by DeadCanDance I doubt that everyone who goes AWOL is weak and cowardly. That's probably what Bush fans would like to believe.
The fact is, there are probably many reasons soldiers go AWOL. Not the least of which, they don't want to fight in your illegal and immoral war. Especially after having served one or two tours already. If you want to toss them all into jail, you're entitled to your opinion. As for me: I'd look at it on a case by case basis, using existing adminstrative and judicial tools.
I don't think Jesus would have fought in your immoral war. I think he would have gone AWOL. Doesn't make him a coward. | What's Bush got to do with this, other than once again you have interjected him into a topic? Along with your bullshit "illegal and immoral war" schtick.
What I see here is that with the exception of you and Kathianne, everyone else voicing an opinion here are VETS. You'd think we might know something about deserters since war or no, they're always there.
Minus your worn-out rhetoric, each case WILL be handled on an individual basis by the respective branches of service. Granted, there MAY BE a few who desert for other reasons, but the vast majority are cowards, whiners and slackers.
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11-25-2007, 06:42 PM
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Rep Power: 57 | | | What posters claim to have done in their private lives is of no interest to me, and I largely consider it irrelevant.
I'm the one who said they should look at AWOL on a case by case basis.
So Perhaps you should scold your con buddies, who jump to conclusions say that all AWOL should be thrown in prison? Including that guy who checked himself into VA? |
11-25-2007, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by DeadCanDance What posters claim to have done in their private lives is of no interest to me, and I largely consider it irrelevant.
I'm the one who said they should look at AWOL on a case by case basis.
So Perhaps you should scold your con buddies, who jump to conclusions say that all AWOL should be thrown in prison? Including that guy who checked himself into VA? | Because if they are guilty of desertion; which, is a separate and more severe crime than AWOL, they deserve to be put in prison.
You didn't say crap. The UCMJ dictates that each case will be investigated and tried separately.
The guy that checked himself into the VA was UA from morning formation and his appointed place of duty for a day. THAT, in the military is a punishable offense.
I can only LMAO at your first line. You've served how much time in the military? Yet you because they disagree with you, you purposefully disregard military vets' opinions on a military topic.
Just f-ing brilliant. 
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11-25-2007, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by GunnyL Because if they are guilty of desertion; which, is a separate and more severe crime than AWOL, they deserve to be put in prison.
You didn't say crap. The UCMJ dictates that each case will be investigated and tried separately.
The guy that checked himself into the VA was UA from morning formation and his appointed place of duty for a day. THAT, in the military is a punishable offense.
I can only LMAO at your first line. You've served how much time in the military? Yet you because they disagree with you, you purposefully disregard military vets' opinions on a military topic.
Just f-ing brilliant. | Exactly! Deserters are simply that,..."deserters"! Nobody can sugar coat the definition of a deserter anymore than they could sugar coat a turd!
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11-26-2007, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Detmurds Exactly! Deserters are simply that,..."deserters"! Nobody can sugar coat the definition of a deserter anymore than they could sugar coat a turd!
TEN-HUT! | Quote:
Article 85, UCMJ Desertion
(a) Any member of the armed forces who--
(1) without authority goes or remains absent from his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to remain away therefrom permanently;
(2) quits his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service; or
(3) without being regularly separated from one of the armed forces enlists or accepts an appointment in the same or another on of the armed forces without fully disclosing the fact that he has not been regularly separated, or enters any foreign armed service except when authorized by the United States;
is guilty of desertion.
(b) Any commissioned officer of the armed forces who, after tender of his resignation and before notice of its acceptance, quits his post or proper duties without leave and with intent to remain away therefrom permanently is guilty of desertion.
(c) Any person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, but if the desertion or attempt to desert occurs at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.
| http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justi...l/blucmj85.htm Quote:
Article 86, UCMJ Absent Without Leave
Any member of the armed forces who, without authority--
(1) fails to go to his appointed place of duty at the time prescribed;
(2) goes from that place; or
(3) absents himself or remains absent from his unit, organization, or place of duty at which he is required to be at the time prescribed;
shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
| http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justi...l/blucmj86.htm
Both violations are pretty specific.
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