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Supporting Kurdish independence

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Old 08-14-2012, 10:40 PM
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Supporting Kurdish independence

I notice quite a few posters here support Kurdish independence, but I hear very little talk about the Kurdish PKK, the largest armed Kurdish independence movement.

Do you support them, or do you consider them terrorists?
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Old 08-15-2012, 12:14 PM
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:01 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Saigon View Post
I notice quite a few posters here support Kurdish independence, but I hear very little talk about the Kurdish PKK, the largest armed Kurdish independence movement.

Do you support them, or do you consider them terrorists?
If they commit terrorist acts against UNARMED CIVILIAN POPULATION, they are terrorists; if they don't -- they are freedom fighters.
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:15 PM
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The Kurds are the only people in that region with any kind of sense so I support their independence 100%.
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:34 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by High_Gravity View Post
The Kurds are the only people in that region with any kind of sense so I support their independence 100%.
I support Kurdish independence as well, although why you think they have more sense than any other people, I have no idea.

Turkey is a fully functioning state with a rising standard of living - and also includes a giant swathe of what would be Kurdistan, including the capital. Why would a Kurdish state thus be necessarily better or worse off than a Turkish one?
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Old 08-16-2012, 05:34 AM
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Kurds are almost as irrelevant as Finns. Only without the incessant whining.
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Old 08-16-2012, 05:51 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Saigon View Post
I notice quite a few posters here support Kurdish independence, but I hear very little talk about the Kurdish PKK, the largest armed Kurdish independence movement.

Do you support them, or do you consider them terrorists?
The PKK are terrorists and I certainly don't support them, and I separate them from other political movements; which seek greater self autonomy and respect of human rights. But the PKK are the direct result of the Turkish governments failure to deliver on their promises, and to respect human rights i.e. tread on a group enough with a hard boot Orwellian style, and they are bound to revolt in a violent fashion. If you watch some documentaries these days, Kurds are having children and raising them as soldiers for the PKK; and they openly speak about how they have so many children so that the Turkish government can never wipe them out like the Armenians and so on (or repeat Dersim).
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Old 08-16-2012, 05:53 AM
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Hipeter -

I totally agree. I abhor a lot of PKK's tactics, and am totally opposed to their use of rape, kidnapping etc, etc, but at the same time their use of violence needs to be seen in the context of Turkish violence against them.

In this sense I think the Kurdish and Palestinian causes have much in common in that both have a very strong historical cause, but at times use the worst possible tactics to draw attention to that cause.
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Old 08-16-2012, 06:01 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Saigon View Post
Hipeter -

I totally agree. I abhor a lot of PKK's tactics, and am totally opposed to their use of rape, kidnapping etc, etc, but at the same time their use of violence needs to be seen in the context of Turkish violence against them.

In this sense I think the Kurdish and Palestinian causes have much in common in that both have a very strong historical cause, but at times use the worst possible tactics to draw attention to that cause.
One exclusively engages in suicide bombings (and rocket attacks); while the other attacks Turkish troops and suicide bombs when it can. In Israel, 'Palestine' and Turkey radical religious and extreme nationalist groups have a strong say in government; which undermines efforts for peace (or resolution).
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Old 08-16-2012, 06:04 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by hipeter924 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Saigon View Post
Hipeter -

I totally agree. I abhor a lot of PKK's tactics, and am totally opposed to their use of rape, kidnapping etc, etc, but at the same time their use of violence needs to be seen in the context of Turkish violence against them.

In this sense I think the Kurdish and Palestinian causes have much in common in that both have a very strong historical cause, but at times use the worst possible tactics to draw attention to that cause.
One exclusively engages in suicide bombings (and rocket attacks); while the other attacks Turkish troops and suicide bombs when it can. In Israel, 'Palestine' and Turkey radical religious and extreme nationalist groups have a strong say in government; which undermines efforts for peace (or resolution).
What are the chances that Turkey gives up land for a Kurdish state? About the same chance the Pals have of ever getting anything back from Israel. Zero.
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Old 08-16-2012, 06:19 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by hipeter924 View Post
One exclusively engages in suicide bombings (and rocket attacks); while the other attacks Turkish troops and suicide bombs when it can. In Israel, 'Palestine' and Turkey radical religious and extreme nationalist groups have a strong say in government; which undermines efforts for peace (or resolution).
Firstly, the PKK have often targetted civilians, use child soldiers, traffic drugs and use chemical weapons.

So let's not pretend they are any better than any Palestinian group.

Secondly, no Palestinian group "exclusively" engages in suicide bombings. Hezbollah, Fatah, Hamas and every other group I can think of all use political and peaceful methods, whilst also comitting acts of terror.

I don't see a big difference there.


Ima - I have you on ignore mode. I don't see or read your posts.
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Old 08-16-2012, 06:33 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Saigon View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by hipeter924 View Post
One exclusively engages in suicide bombings (and rocket attacks); while the other attacks Turkish troops and suicide bombs when it can. In Israel, 'Palestine' and Turkey radical religious and extreme nationalist groups have a strong say in government; which undermines efforts for peace (or resolution).
Firstly, the PKK have often targetted civilians, use child soldiers, traffic drugs and use chemical weapons.

So let's not pretend they are any better than any Palestinian group.

Secondly, no Palestinian group "exclusively" engages in suicide bombings. Hezbollah, Fatah, Hamas and every other group I can think of all use political and peaceful methods, whilst also comitting acts of terror.

I don't see a big difference there.


Ima - I have you on ignore mode. I don't see or read your posts.
I don't see much difference between Finland and a bucket of shit.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:20 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Saigon View Post
Firstly, the PKK have often targetted civilians, , .
lets see what turks do

Quote:
Turkey admits 35 civilian deaths near Kurdish village
BBC News - Turkey admits 35 civilian deaths near Kurdish village
Quote:
and use chemical weapons

no you got it the wrong way around

Quote:
An activist group allege Turkey used chemical weapons against Kurdish soldiers
Turkey is accused of using chemical weapons against Kurdish soldiers
Quote:
use child soldiers

when his dad and older brothers are either killed or jailed he will seek revenge

Quote:
traffic drugs

Quote:
Germany: PKK has nothing to do with drug trafficking
Germany: PKK has nothing to do with drug trafficking
Quote:
So let's not pretend they are any better than any Palestinian group.

they are bcoz pkk has never sent in rockets into civilian areas like hamas and hizbullah do
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:32 AM
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Kirkuki -

I am sure everyone is aware that Turkey has used chemical weapons against the Kurds, but are you denying that the PKK has also used chemical weapons?

^ Two decoded cases: 1) August 27, 1996 mustard/sarin 2) (50 mg/l) of cyanide to three water tanks used by the Air Force.

Kurdistan Workers' Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 08-16-2012, 11:01 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ima View Post
Kurds are almost as irrelevant as Finns. Only without the incessant whining.
Kurds became a pawn in US game...
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