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Why did Arafat turn down 97% of the W Bank and all of Gaza in 2000?

This is a discussion on Why did Arafat turn down 97% of the W Bank and all of Gaza in 2000? within the Israel and Palestine forums, part of the Global Discussion category; Quote: Originally Posted by tinydancer Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore Quote: Originally Posted by tinydancer I'd really like to know what posters think ...


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Old 03-07-2013, 12:36 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by tinydancer View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by tinydancer View Post
I'd really like to know what posters think about this historic and bewildering event that took place. I still don't get it. It was all handed to him on a silver platter and he refused to form a Palestinian State.
The Myth of the Generous Offer

Quote:
Although some people describe Israel's Camp David proposal as practically a return to the 1967 borders, it was far from that. Under the plan, Israel would have withdrawn completely from the small Gaza Strip. But it would annex strategically important and highly valuable sections of the West Bank--while retaining "security control" over other parts--that would have made it impossible for the Palestinians to travel or trade freely within their own state without the permission of the Israeli government (Political Science Quarterly, 6/22/01; New York Times, 7/26/01; Report on Israeli Settlement in the Occupied Territories, 9-10/00; Robert Malley, New York Review of Books, 8/9/01).

The annexations and security arrangements would divide the West Bank into three disconnected cantons. In exchange for taking fertile West Bank lands that happen to contain most of the region's scarce water aquifers, Israel offered to give up a piece of its own territory in the Negev Desert--about one-tenth the size of the land it would annex--including a former toxic waste dump.

Because of the geographic placement of Israelís proposed West Bank annexations, Palestinians living in their new "independent state" would be forced to cross Israeli territory every time they traveled or shipped goods from one section of the West Bank to another, and Israel could close those routes at will. Israel would also retain a network of so-called "bypass roads" that would crisscross the Palestinian state while remaining sovereign Israeli territory, further dividing the West Bank.

Israel was also to have kept "security control" for an indefinite period of time over the Jordan Valley, the strip of territory that forms the border between the West Bank and neighboring Jordan. Palestine would not have free access to its own international borders with Jordan and Egypt--putting Palestinian trade, and therefore its economy, at the mercy of the Israeli military.

Had Arafat agreed to these arrangements, the Palestinians would have permanently locked in place many of the worst aspects of the very occupation they were trying to bring to an end. For at Camp David, Israel also demanded that Arafat sign an "end-of-conflict" agreement stating that the decades-old war between Israel and the Palestinians was over and waiving all further claims against Israel.
Excellent post by Coyote.

A message from Canada to the Palestinians
So President Clinton's a liar? The New York Times is lying?

In his own words. In the very liberal New York Times blaming Arafat for the failure.

IMPASSE AT CAMP DAVID: THE OVERVIEW; CLINTON ENDS DEADLOCKED PEACE TALKS
By JANE PERLEZ
Published: July 26, 2000

At the end of two weeks of marathon negotiations with the leaders of Israel and the Palestinians, a visibly fatigued President Clinton announced today that they were unable to reach an agreement ''at this time.''

The president and other American mediators made clear that it was Yasir Arafat, the Palestinian leader, who balked in the end, and by all accounts the issue was Jerusalem, the Holy City both Israelis and Palestinians claim as their sacred capital.

Speaking at the White House, Mr. Clinton singled out the Israeli prime minister, Ehud Barak, for his readiness to make hard compromises.

''I would be making a mistake not to praise Barak, because I think he took a big risk,'' the president said. ''The prime minister moved forward more from his initial position than Chairman Arafat, particularly surrounding the question of Jerusalem.''


IMPASSE AT CAMP DAVID: THE OVERVIEW; CLINTON ENDS DEADLOCKED PEACE TALKS - New York Times
Quote:
So President Clinton's a liar? The New York Times is lying?
That would not surprise me at all.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2013, 12:52 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by High_Gravity View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Sunni Man View Post
The 97% offer to Arafat was a joke; PR smoke and mirrors.

Would you buy 97% of a car from a salesman?

When the other 3% he kept was the engine and transmission.

Sure the car might look good...... but you couldn't drive it anywhere........
So instead of that we get suicide bombings and intifidahs? come on Sunni.
Hypothetical.

Lets say the UN decided to give America to China due to it's massive debt.

The Chinese army invaded and herded all American citizens to Ohio and built a wall around it.

And would shoot anyone trying to escape and bomb them whenever they wanted.

Questions:

How long would the American citizens resist after having their country stolen from them?

5 years? 50 years? 100 years? 200 years?

Knowing the American spirit; would we ever concede defeat, and just be happy with our situation?

Or would we; dig tunnels, smuggle arms, build home made rockets, sneak out and attack Chinese soldiers, and basically do anything to try to get our country back?












Do you think the American
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:55 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Sunni Man View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by High_Gravity View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Sunni Man View Post
The 97% offer to Arafat was a joke; PR smoke and mirrors.

Would you buy 97% of a car from a salesman?

When the other 3% he kept was the engine and transmission.

Sure the car might look good...... but you couldn't drive it anywhere........
So instead of that we get suicide bombings and intifidahs? come on Sunni.
Hypothetical.

Lets say the UN decided to give America to China due to it's massive debt.

The Chinese army invaded and herded all American citizens to Ohio and built a wall around it.

And would shoot anyone trying to escape and bomb them whenever they wanted.

Questions:

How long would the American citizens resist after having their country stolen from them?

5 years? 50 years? 100 years? 200 years?

Knowing the American spirit; would we ever concede defeat, and just be happy with our situation?

Or would we; dig tunnels, smuggle arms, build home made rockets, sneak out and attack Chinese soldiers, and basically do anything to try to get our country back?












Do you think the American
Is that what happened though? the UN gave the land to Israel?
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2013, 12:57 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by High_Gravity View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Sunni Man View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by High_Gravity View Post

So instead of that we get suicide bombings and intifidahs? come on Sunni.
Hypothetical.

Lets say the UN decided to give America to China due to it's massive debt.

The Chinese army invaded and herded all American citizens to Ohio and built a wall around it.

And would shoot anyone trying to escape and bomb them whenever they wanted.

Questions:

How long would the American citizens resist after having their country stolen from them?

5 years? 50 years? 100 years? 200 years?

Knowing the American spirit; would we ever concede defeat, and just be happy with our situation?

Or would we; dig tunnels, smuggle arms, build home made rockets, sneak out and attack Chinese soldiers, and basically do anything to try to get our country back?












Do you think the American
Is that what happened though? the UN gave the land to Israel?
The UN gave no land to Israel.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2013, 12:58 PM
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sunni----from where do you get your infomation about Gaza and the
West Bank----your local mosque? big wall? no "escape"?
I live in the USA-----I never went to gaza----I have met LOTS OF
GAZANS they did not have to "escape" to get to the USA----
when you talk about "ESCAPING" think Sudanese christians,
in fact think jews from lots of different islamic lands
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:59 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by High_Gravity View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Sunni Man View Post
Hypothetical.

Lets say the UN decided to give America to China due to it's massive debt.

The Chinese army invaded and herded all American citizens to Ohio and built a wall around it.

And would shoot anyone trying to escape and bomb them whenever they wanted.

Questions:

How long would the American citizens resist after having their country stolen from them?

5 years? 50 years? 100 years? 200 years?

Knowing the American spirit; would we ever concede defeat, and just be happy with our situation?

Or would we; dig tunnels, smuggle arms, build home made rockets, sneak out and attack Chinese soldiers, and basically do anything to try to get our country back?












Do you think the American
Is that what happened though? the UN gave the land to Israel?
The UN gave no land to Israel.
I am completely lost now. I thought Israel was formed under a UN mandate? or was it an English one?
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:02 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by High_Gravity View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by High_Gravity View Post

Is that what happened though? the UN gave the land to Israel?
The UN gave no land to Israel.
I am completely lost now. I thought Israel was formed under a UN mandate? or was it an English one?
Interesting. Where did you get that impression?
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:08 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by High_Gravity View Post
I am completely lost now. I thought Israel was formed under a UN mandate? or was it an English one?
Regardless of how or why; the people living there were herded into the west Bank and Gaza.

And the rest of the land given to the jews and renamed Israel........

Last edited by Sunni Man; 03-07-2013 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:10 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by tinydancer View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by tinydancer View Post
I'd really like to know what posters think about this historic and bewildering event that took place. I still don't get it. It was all handed to him on a silver platter and he refused to form a Palestinian State.
The Myth of the Generous Offer

Quote:
Although some people describe Israel's Camp David proposal as practically a return to the 1967 borders, it was far from that. Under the plan, Israel would have withdrawn completely from the small Gaza Strip. But it would annex strategically important and highly valuable sections of the West Bank--while retaining "security control" over other parts--that would have made it impossible for the Palestinians to travel or trade freely within their own state without the permission of the Israeli government (Political Science Quarterly, 6/22/01; New York Times, 7/26/01; Report on Israeli Settlement in the Occupied Territories, 9-10/00; Robert Malley, New York Review of Books, 8/9/01).

The annexations and security arrangements would divide the West Bank into three disconnected cantons. In exchange for taking fertile West Bank lands that happen to contain most of the region's scarce water aquifers, Israel offered to give up a piece of its own territory in the Negev Desert--about one-tenth the size of the land it would annex--including a former toxic waste dump.

Because of the geographic placement of Israelís proposed West Bank annexations, Palestinians living in their new "independent state" would be forced to cross Israeli territory every time they traveled or shipped goods from one section of the West Bank to another, and Israel could close those routes at will. Israel would also retain a network of so-called "bypass roads" that would crisscross the Palestinian state while remaining sovereign Israeli territory, further dividing the West Bank.

Israel was also to have kept "security control" for an indefinite period of time over the Jordan Valley, the strip of territory that forms the border between the West Bank and neighboring Jordan. Palestine would not have free access to its own international borders with Jordan and Egypt--putting Palestinian trade, and therefore its economy, at the mercy of the Israeli military.

Had Arafat agreed to these arrangements, the Palestinians would have permanently locked in place many of the worst aspects of the very occupation they were trying to bring to an end. For at Camp David, Israel also demanded that Arafat sign an "end-of-conflict" agreement stating that the decades-old war between Israel and the Palestinians was over and waiving all further claims against Israel.
Excellent post by Coyote.

A message from Canada to the Palestinians
So President Clinton's a liar? The New York Times is lying?

In his own words. In the very liberal New York Times blaming Arafat for the failure.

IMPASSE AT CAMP DAVID: THE OVERVIEW; CLINTON ENDS DEADLOCKED PEACE TALKS
By JANE PERLEZ
Published: July 26, 2000

At the end of two weeks of marathon negotiations with the leaders of Israel and the Palestinians, a visibly fatigued President Clinton announced today that they were unable to reach an agreement ''at this time.''

The president and other American mediators made clear that it was Yasir Arafat, the Palestinian leader, who balked in the end, and by all accounts the issue was Jerusalem, the Holy City both Israelis and Palestinians claim as their sacred capital.

Speaking at the White House, Mr. Clinton singled out the Israeli prime minister, Ehud Barak, for his readiness to make hard compromises.

''I would be making a mistake not to praise Barak, because I think he took a big risk,'' the president said. ''The prime minister moved forward more from his initial position than Chairman Arafat, particularly surrounding the question of Jerusalem.''


IMPASSE AT CAMP DAVID: THE OVERVIEW; CLINTON ENDS DEADLOCKED PEACE TALKS - New York Times
And the source was bullshit when Coyote posted it, but did you really expect and honest post from Tinhead. First, the guy is a mental midget. Second, the guy is as creditable Alamdouchebag saying there are no gays in Iran!
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:12 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Sunni Man View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by High_Gravity View Post
I am completely lost now. I thought Israel was formed under a UN mandate? or was it an English one?
Regardless of how or why; the people living there were herded into the west Bank and Gaza.

And the rest of the land given to the jews and renamed Israel........
and the 1.5 million Israeli Arabs simply don't exist?
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:14 PM
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Good question. It's called Palestinian Mentality!



Quote: Originally Posted by tinydancer View Post
I'd really like to know what posters think about this historic and bewildering event that took place. I still don't get it. It was all handed to him on a silver platter and he refused to form a Palestinian State.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:15 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by High_Gravity View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by High_Gravity View Post

Is that what happened though? the UN gave the land to Israel?
The UN gave no land to Israel.
I am completely lost now. I thought Israel was formed under a UN mandate? or was it an English one?
Be not confused-----and do not over eat just because Samer does-----
Israel was formed within the CALIPHATE -----the OTTOMAN TURKS
could not collect taxes from arab squatters in palestne
----so they decided to sell land
to jews----this took place in the early 1800s Jews were jumping for joy
because previously they could not buy land in palestine. Lots of
people donated money to the project and jews started migrating
TO PALESTINE from europe ---parts of asia and Africa etc
and developed a society there -----hoping to develope an
independent country. Some people call that the ZIONIST PROJECT---
it was one of many historically----sometimes jews did manage to get
to palestine-----but----it often did not work out because strictly speaking
----according to islamic law----all land is OWNED BY THE UMMAH---
that means all land is MUSLIM LAND
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:15 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by GHook93 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by tinydancer View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore View Post
So President Clinton's a liar? The New York Times is lying?

In his own words. In the very liberal New York Times blaming Arafat for the failure.

IMPASSE AT CAMP DAVID: THE OVERVIEW; CLINTON ENDS DEADLOCKED PEACE TALKS
By JANE PERLEZ
Published: July 26, 2000

At the end of two weeks of marathon negotiations with the leaders of Israel and the Palestinians, a visibly fatigued President Clinton announced today that they were unable to reach an agreement ''at this time.''

The president and other American mediators made clear that it was Yasir Arafat, the Palestinian leader, who balked in the end, and by all accounts the issue was Jerusalem, the Holy City both Israelis and Palestinians claim as their sacred capital.

Speaking at the White House, Mr. Clinton singled out the Israeli prime minister, Ehud Barak, for his readiness to make hard compromises.

''I would be making a mistake not to praise Barak, because I think he took a big risk,'' the president said. ''The prime minister moved forward more from his initial position than Chairman Arafat, particularly surrounding the question of Jerusalem.''


IMPASSE AT CAMP DAVID: THE OVERVIEW; CLINTON ENDS DEADLOCKED PEACE TALKS - New York Times
And the source was bullshit when Coyote posted it, but did you really expect and honest post from Tinhead. First, the guy is a mental midget. Second, the guy is as creditable Alamdouchebag saying there are no gays in Iran!
Perhaps you could post the text of the agreement so we can see what it actually said.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:19 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by martybegan View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Sunni Man View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by High_Gravity View Post
I am completely lost now. I thought Israel was formed under a UN mandate? or was it an English one?
Regardless of how or why; the people living there were herded into the west Bank and Gaza.

And the rest of the land given to the jews and renamed Israel........
and the 1.5 million Israeli Arabs simply don't exist?
Where did you get this number from?
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:21 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Sunni Man View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by martybegan View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Sunni Man View Post
Regardless of how or why; the people living there were herded into the west Bank and Gaza.

And the rest of the land given to the jews and renamed Israel........
and the 1.5 million Israeli Arabs simply don't exist?
Where did you get this number from?
Arab citizens of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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