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A message from Canada to the Palestinians

This is a discussion on A message from Canada to the Palestinians within the Israel and Palestine forums, part of the Global Discussion category; Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore Quote: Originally Posted by Hossfly Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore Abbas left the government in June ...


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Israel and Palestine Thoughts in this conflict?

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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2013, 09:47 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Hossfly View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore View Post



Abbas left the government in June of 2007 and Fayyad has never been the prime minister of Palestine.
What are the two men currently doing?
Pretending to be the government and sucking money out of dupes.
Who is currently sitting in the President's chair? The PMs chair? Who sits in them?
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:04 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by skye View Post


You are correct!

The Palestinians were also offered by Ehud Barak a very generous peace settlement at Camp David in 2000, but of course this was rejected by Arafat because the Palestinians won't settle for just a two state solution, what they really want is one state solution!!! that is all of Gaza, the West bank and Israel!

PALESTINIANS = ETERNAL TROUBLEMAKERS

....was it so generous?

The Myth of the Generous Offer

Quote:
Although some people describe Israel's Camp David proposal as practically a return to the 1967 borders, it was far from that. Under the plan, Israel would have withdrawn completely from the small Gaza Strip. But it would annex strategically important and highly valuable sections of the West Bank--while retaining "security control" over other parts--that would have made it impossible for the Palestinians to travel or trade freely within their own state without the permission of the Israeli government (Political Science Quarterly, 6/22/01; New York Times, 7/26/01; Report on Israeli Settlement in the Occupied Territories, 9-10/00; Robert Malley, New York Review of Books, 8/9/01).

The annexations and security arrangements would divide the West Bank into three disconnected cantons. In exchange for taking fertile West Bank lands that happen to contain most of the region's scarce water aquifers, Israel offered to give up a piece of its own territory in the Negev Desert--about one-tenth the size of the land it would annex--including a former toxic waste dump.

Because of the geographic placement of Israel’s proposed West Bank annexations, Palestinians living in their new "independent state" would be forced to cross Israeli territory every time they traveled or shipped goods from one section of the West Bank to another, and Israel could close those routes at will. Israel would also retain a network of so-called "bypass roads" that would crisscross the Palestinian state while remaining sovereign Israeli territory, further dividing the West Bank.

Israel was also to have kept "security control" for an indefinite period of time over the Jordan Valley, the strip of territory that forms the border between the West Bank and neighboring Jordan. Palestine would not have free access to its own international borders with Jordan and Egypt--putting Palestinian trade, and therefore its economy, at the mercy of the Israeli military.

Had Arafat agreed to these arrangements, the Palestinians would have permanently locked in place many of the worst aspects of the very occupation they were trying to bring to an end. For at Camp David, Israel also demanded that Arafat sign an "end-of-conflict" agreement stating that the decades-old war between Israel and the Palestinians was over and waiving all further claims against Israel.
If the positions were reversed - would you have expected Israel to agree to such terms?

No sane person would.
That website is not as "fair" you one would think, here's another article on it's homepage. I wouldn't trust it at all. Especially over individuals in the US State Dept. who were sitting in at the negotiations:

In Death as in Life, Chávez Target of Media Scorn

Venezuela's left-wing populist president Hugo Chávez died on Tuesday, March 5, after a two-year battle with cancer. If world leaders were judged by the sheer volume of corporate media vitriol and misinformation about their policies, Chávez would be in a class of his own.
Shortly after Chávez won his first election in 1998, the U.S. government deemed him a threat to U.S. interests--an image U.S. media eagerly played up. When a coup engineered by Venezuelan business and media elites removed Chávez from power, many leading U.S outlets praised the move (Extra!, 6/02). The New York Times (4/13/02), calling it a "resignation," declared that "Venezuelan democracy is no longer threatened by a would-be dictator." The Chicago Tribune (4/14/02) cheered the removal of a leader who had been "praising Osama bin Laden"--an absurdly false charge.

In reporting Chávez's death, little had changed. "Venezuela Bully Chávez Is Dead," read the New York Post's front page (3/6/13); "Death of a Demogogue" was on Time's home page (3/6/13). CNN host Anderson Cooper (3/5/13) declared it was "the death of a world leader who made America see red, as in Fidel Castro red, Venezuela's socialist president, Hugo Chávez."
"The words 'Venezuelan strongman' so often preceded his name, and for good reason," declared NBC Nightly News host Brian Williams (3/5/13); on ABC World News (3/5/13), viewers were told that "many Americans viewed him as a dictator." That would be especially true if those Americans consumed corporate media.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2013, 10:06 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by tinydancer View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore View Post



Abbas left the government in June of 2007 and Fayyad has never been the prime minister of Palestine.
The website doesn't claim that. He's Prime Minister of the PNA.

Salam Fayyad (Arabic: سلام فياض*, Salām Fayāḍ; born 1952) is a Palestinian politician and Prime Minister of the Palestinian National Authority.

Is wiki wrong?

And he's highly respected.

Management of the West Bank

Salaam Fayyad won international and domestic approval for his management of the West Bank. The World Bank credited him with making substantial improvements in Palestinian state institutions.

A polling in November of 2009 showed that 60.7% of Palestinians credited his government with improving the economy of the West Bank; 61.9% faulted Hamas for the deterioration in the economy of Gaza.

54.4% of Palestinians believed that Fayyad's government is superior to the Hamas government. 57.1% of Palestinians believed that Fayyad's government advanced reforms of the Palestinian Authority, 52% believe corruption decreased and 48% believed that security improved under his governance


Salam Fayyad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
From your link.

Quote:
Anis al-Qasem, a constitutional lawyer who drafted the Basic Law, is among those who publicly declared the appointment of Fayyad to be illegal.
Neither Fayyad no any of his cabinet have been approved by the parliament as their constitution requires.

Abbas left the legal government in 2007 and appointed an illegal government.
What's your point? Many governments refuse to recognize Hamas. It's a dog's breakfast in Palestine. I personally hate it when any government has a President and a Prime Minister and then a million other top dogs.

My point was strictly to give a link to show the Canuck's support for Palestine. Including cash.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2013, 10:14 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Roudy View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by skye View Post


You are correct!

The Palestinians were also offered by Ehud Barak a very generous peace settlement at Camp David in 2000, but of course this was rejected by Arafat because the Palestinians won't settle for just a two state solution, what they really want is one state solution!!! that is all of Gaza, the West bank and Israel!

PALESTINIANS = ETERNAL TROUBLEMAKERS

....was it so generous?

The Myth of the Generous Offer

Quote:
Although some people describe Israel's Camp David proposal as practically a return to the 1967 borders, it was far from that. Under the plan, Israel would have withdrawn completely from the small Gaza Strip. But it would annex strategically important and highly valuable sections of the West Bank--while retaining "security control" over other parts--that would have made it impossible for the Palestinians to travel or trade freely within their own state without the permission of the Israeli government (Political Science Quarterly, 6/22/01; New York Times, 7/26/01; Report on Israeli Settlement in the Occupied Territories, 9-10/00; Robert Malley, New York Review of Books, 8/9/01).

The annexations and security arrangements would divide the West Bank into three disconnected cantons. In exchange for taking fertile West Bank lands that happen to contain most of the region's scarce water aquifers, Israel offered to give up a piece of its own territory in the Negev Desert--about one-tenth the size of the land it would annex--including a former toxic waste dump.

Because of the geographic placement of Israel’s proposed West Bank annexations, Palestinians living in their new "independent state" would be forced to cross Israeli territory every time they traveled or shipped goods from one section of the West Bank to another, and Israel could close those routes at will. Israel would also retain a network of so-called "bypass roads" that would crisscross the Palestinian state while remaining sovereign Israeli territory, further dividing the West Bank.

Israel was also to have kept "security control" for an indefinite period of time over the Jordan Valley, the strip of territory that forms the border between the West Bank and neighboring Jordan. Palestine would not have free access to its own international borders with Jordan and Egypt--putting Palestinian trade, and therefore its economy, at the mercy of the Israeli military.

Had Arafat agreed to these arrangements, the Palestinians would have permanently locked in place many of the worst aspects of the very occupation they were trying to bring to an end. For at Camp David, Israel also demanded that Arafat sign an "end-of-conflict" agreement stating that the decades-old war between Israel and the Palestinians was over and waiving all further claims against Israel.
If the positions were reversed - would you have expected Israel to agree to such terms?

No sane person would.
That website is not as "fair" you one would think, here's another article on it's homepage. I wouldn't trust it at all. Especially over individuals in the US State Dept. who were sitting in at the negotiations:

In Death as in Life, Chávez Target of Media Scorn

Venezuela's left-wing populist president Hugo Chávez died on Tuesday, March 5, after a two-year battle with cancer. If world leaders were judged by the sheer volume of corporate media vitriol and misinformation about their policies, Chávez would be in a class of his own.
Shortly after Chávez won his first election in 1998, the U.S. government deemed him a threat to U.S. interests--an image U.S. media eagerly played up. When a coup engineered by Venezuelan business and media elites removed Chávez from power, many leading U.S outlets praised the move (Extra!, 6/02). The New York Times (4/13/02), calling it a "resignation," declared that "Venezuelan democracy is no longer threatened by a would-be dictator." The Chicago Tribune (4/14/02) cheered the removal of a leader who had been "praising Osama bin Laden"--an absurdly false charge.

In reporting Chávez's death, little had changed. "Venezuela Bully Chávez Is Dead," read the New York Post's front page (3/6/13); "Death of a Demogogue" was on Time's home page (3/6/13). CNN host Anderson Cooper (3/5/13) declared it was "the death of a world leader who made America see red, as in Fidel Castro red, Venezuela's socialist president, Hugo Chávez."
"The words 'Venezuelan strongman' so often preceded his name, and for good reason," declared NBC Nightly News host Brian Williams (3/5/13); on ABC World News (3/5/13), viewers were told that "many Americans viewed him as a dictator." That would be especially true if those Americans consumed corporate media.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2013, 10:23 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Roudy View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Coyote View Post


....was it so generous?

The Myth of the Generous Offer



If the positions were reversed - would you have expected Israel to agree to such terms?

No sane person would.
That website is not as "fair" you one would think, here's another article on it's homepage. I wouldn't trust it at all. Especially over individuals in the US State Dept. who were sitting in at the negotiations:

In Death as in Life, Chávez Target of Media Scorn

Venezuela's left-wing populist president Hugo Chávez died on Tuesday, March 5, after a two-year battle with cancer. If world leaders were judged by the sheer volume of corporate media vitriol and misinformation about their policies, Chávez would be in a class of his own.
Shortly after Chávez won his first election in 1998, the U.S. government deemed him a threat to U.S. interests--an image U.S. media eagerly played up. When a coup engineered by Venezuelan business and media elites removed Chávez from power, many leading U.S outlets praised the move (Extra!, 6/02). The New York Times (4/13/02), calling it a "resignation," declared that "Venezuelan democracy is no longer threatened by a would-be dictator." The Chicago Tribune (4/14/02) cheered the removal of a leader who had been "praising Osama bin Laden"--an absurdly false charge.

In reporting Chávez's death, little had changed. "Venezuela Bully Chávez Is Dead," read the New York Post's front page (3/6/13); "Death of a Demogogue" was on Time's home page (3/6/13). CNN host Anderson Cooper (3/5/13) declared it was "the death of a world leader who made America see red, as in Fidel Castro red, Venezuela's socialist president, Hugo Chávez."
"The words 'Venezuelan strongman' so often preceded his name, and for good reason," declared NBC Nightly News host Brian Williams (3/5/13); on ABC World News (3/5/13), viewers were told that "many Americans viewed him as a dictator." That would be especially true if those Americans consumed corporate media.
Well, yes of course. What a surprise, Pali supporters are also Chavez, Ahamdinejad, and co. supporters. I am shocked, shocked I tell ya.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2013, 10:30 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by tinydancer View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by tinydancer View Post

The website doesn't claim that. He's Prime Minister of the PNA.

Salam Fayyad (Arabic: سلام فياض*, Salām Fayāḍ; born 1952) is a Palestinian politician and Prime Minister of the Palestinian National Authority.

Is wiki wrong?

And he's highly respected.

Management of the West Bank

Salaam Fayyad won international and domestic approval for his management of the West Bank. The World Bank credited him with making substantial improvements in Palestinian state institutions.

A polling in November of 2009 showed that 60.7% of Palestinians credited his government with improving the economy of the West Bank; 61.9% faulted Hamas for the deterioration in the economy of Gaza.

54.4% of Palestinians believed that Fayyad's government is superior to the Hamas government. 57.1% of Palestinians believed that Fayyad's government advanced reforms of the Palestinian Authority, 52% believe corruption decreased and 48% believed that security improved under his governance


Salam Fayyad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
From your link.

Quote:
Anis al-Qasem, a constitutional lawyer who drafted the Basic Law, is among those who publicly declared the appointment of Fayyad to be illegal.
Neither Fayyad no any of his cabinet have been approved by the parliament as their constitution requires.

Abbas left the legal government in 2007 and appointed an illegal government.
What's your point? Many governments refuse to recognize Hamas. It's a dog's breakfast in Palestine. I personally hate it when any government has a President and a Prime Minister and then a million other top dogs.

My point was strictly to give a link to show the Canuck's support for Palestine. Including cash.
Abbas and Fayyad are anti Palestine. They were cited in the Goldstone report as violators of international law.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:45 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by tinydancer View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore View Post

From your link.



Neither Fayyad no any of his cabinet have been approved by the parliament as their constitution requires.

Abbas left the legal government in 2007 and appointed an illegal government.
What's your point? Many governments refuse to recognize Hamas. It's a dog's breakfast in Palestine. I personally hate it when any government has a President and a Prime Minister and then a million other top dogs.

My point was strictly to give a link to show the Canuck's support for Palestine. Including cash.
Abbas and Fayyad are anti Palestine. They were cited in the Goldstone report as violators of international law.
Time is running out for the creation of a Pal State larger than a postage stamp. Instead of exhorting your comrades to "just hang in there" perhaps you should be telling 'em to make a deal ... today.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2013, 11:54 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by SAYIT View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by tinydancer View Post

What's your point? Many governments refuse to recognize Hamas. It's a dog's breakfast in Palestine. I personally hate it when any government has a President and a Prime Minister and then a million other top dogs.

My point was strictly to give a link to show the Canuck's support for Palestine. Including cash.
Abbas and Fayyad are anti Palestine. They were cited in the Goldstone report as violators of international law.
Time is running out for the creation of a Pal State larger than a postage stamp. Instead of exhorting your comrades to "just hang in there" perhaps you should be telling 'em to make a deal ... today.
Not really. When Israel and its US lackeys kill the two state solution, what is left?
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2013, 05:58 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Hossfly View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Hossfly View Post
What are the two men currently doing?
Pretending to be the government and sucking money out of dupes.
Who is currently sitting in the President's chair? The PMs chair? Who sits in them?
See how eager Tinny is to answer the questions?
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2013, 06:54 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by SAYIT View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore View Post

Abbas and Fayyad are anti Palestine. They were cited in the Goldstone report as violators of international law.
Time is running out for the creation of a Pal State larger than a postage stamp. Instead of exhorting your comrades to "just hang in there" perhaps you should be telling 'em to make a deal ... today.
Not really. When Israel and its US lackeys kill the two state solution, what is left?
Abbas is the one who is killing the two-state solution. What was his counter offer to Olmert's proposal ? In other words, what was his offer for peace ?
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2013, 07:41 AM
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"israel and its US lackeys' are "killing the two state solution...."??
gee ..seems to me all my life I have noticed that the entire
ummah has voiced its rejection of "the two state solution" ---
---every time one of its billion + members sneers
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:51 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Saigon View Post
I have to say that I'm disappointed that the best response Canada can muster to the endless construction in the West Bank is to act as Israel's PR agency.
Why shouldn't they build on the West Bank? During he Oslo accords the Palestinians were offered first 95% of what they wanted and it was upped to 98% of what they wanted and Arafat rejected it. Not because he was a fool, but because he knew that his blunder and corruption scheme would be unmasked! He couldn't have peace or he would have wealth.

Israel should continue to build on the Judea and Samaria and Eastern Jerusalem. They should move in more and more Jewish families and move out more and more Arab families. Then when they make future offers to the Palestinians, the offer should be less and less. If the Palestinians didn't like the offer in the high 90s, then they will have to accept offers in the low 90s high 80s. Israel should not let the land remain idle! While under their control they should build it up and make use of it.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:03 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by GHook93 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Saigon View Post
I have to say that I'm disappointed that the best response Canada can muster to the endless construction in the West Bank is to act as Israel's PR agency.
Why shouldn't the build ont he West Bank, during he Oslo accords the Palestinians were offered first 95% of wha they wanted and it was upped to 98% of wha they wanted and Arafat rejected it.

Israel should continue to build on the Judea and Samaria and Eastern Jerusalem. They should move in more and more Jewish families and move out more and more Arab families. Then when the make offers to the Palestinians, the offer should be less and less. If the Palestinians didn't liek the offer in the high 90s, then they will have to accept offers in the low 90s high 80s. Israel should not let the land remain idle! While under their control they should build it up and make use of it.
What you said can be said in a mathematical formula.

Israel = Builders
Arabs / Muslims = Destroyers
Therefore,
Non Jewish Israel = Destroyed Islamic Shithole, cesspool of Shariah law, corruption, hate, islamic radicalism, chauvanism, intolerance and terror
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:13 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by GHook93 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Saigon View Post
I have to say that I'm disappointed that the best response Canada can muster to the endless construction in the West Bank is to act as Israel's PR agency.
Why shouldn't the build ont he West Bank, during he Oslo accords the Palestinians were offered first 95% of wha they wanted and it was upped to 98% of wha they wanted and Arafat rejected it.

Israel should continue to build on the Judea and Samaria and Eastern Jerusalem. They should move in more and more Jewish families and move out more and more Arab families. Then when the make offers to the Palestinians, the offer should be less and less. If the Palestinians didn't liek the offer in the high 90s, then they will have to accept offers in the low 90s high 80s. Israel should not let the land remain idle! While under their control they should build it up and make use of it.
I've stated often that Netanyahu should declare WB open for unlimited settlement building. Gaza is plenty big enough fo the Pals.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:41 AM
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irosie91 could run the Federal Reserve
irosie91 could run the Federal Reserve irosie91 could run the Federal Reserve irosie91 could run the Federal Reserve irosie91 could run the Federal Reserve irosie91 could run the Federal Reserve irosie91 could run the Federal Reserve irosie91 could run the Federal Reserve irosie91 could run the Federal Reserve irosie91 could run the Federal Reserve irosie91 could run the Federal Reserve irosie91 could run the Federal Reserve irosie91 could run the Federal Reserve
Quote: Originally Posted by Hossfly View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by GHook93 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Saigon View Post
I have to say that I'm disappointed that the best response Canada can muster to the endless construction in the West Bank is to act as Israel's PR agency.
Why shouldn't the build ont he West Bank, during he Oslo accords the Palestinians were offered first 95% of wha they wanted and it was upped to 98% of wha they wanted and Arafat rejected it.

Israel should continue to build on the Judea and Samaria and Eastern Jerusalem. They should move in more and more Jewish families and move out more and more Arab families. Then when the make offers to the Palestinians, the offer should be less and less. If the Palestinians didn't liek the offer in the high 90s, then they will have to accept offers in the low 90s high 80s. Israel should not let the land remain idle! While under their control they should build it up and make use of it.
I've stated often that Netanyahu should declare WB open for unlimited settlement building. Gaza is plenty big enough fo the Pals.

I honestly am not being cynical----the "palestinians" deserve an actual country
somewhere-----why can their country not be carved out of --SINAI-----gaza plus a
chunk of sinai----it is a very very DEVELOPABLE land -----just some de-
salination plants-----and----its got OIL Lets face it----one of the big
obstacles is the fact that the proposed "palestine" comes in two
separate chunks-----with Israel between. It certainly did not work
for PAKISTAN (east and west---india between) I want the palestinians
to keep Gaza and get a nice chunk of Sinai----which nobody is using anyway
now that Israel evacuated------Israel was doing VERY WELL there with
agriculture . A good source of energy could be the SOLAR thing---besides
the oil PALESTINE WOULD BE A BIG SUCCESS Asking Israel to give
up jerusalem and hebron ----will always create intense animosity----and is
a bad precedent-----one might as well ask saudi arabia to give up medina
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