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Christians of the Holy Land

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Old 04-28-2012, 03:55 PM
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Christians of the Holy Land

Christians of the Holy Land - 60 Minutes - CBS News
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:06 PM
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Christians in the Middle East
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Of the eight million people or so living in Israel, around 20% are Arabs—of whom about 7% are Christian. Israel's Arab Christians, in other words, number only about 110,000 people, living mostly in tight communities in Jerusalem and the Galilee.

For all the solicitous attention paid to them by such international Christian organizations as the World Council of Churches, you would think they were a larger and more important group. Much of the Vatican's diplomacy—its occasionally adversarial relations with Israel, its Palestinian favoritism, its reluctance to condemn the Islamic dictatorships—derives from its belief that the ancient Christian communities of the Middle East are at risk, and that the best way to defend them is to be seen to side with Arabs against their perceived enemies.

Hard to say the Vatican is wrong about the first part. At the beginning of the twentieth century, large numbers of Christians still lived in their traditional Orthodox and Catholic communities, from the Holy Mountain of Mount Athos all the way around the Mediterranean—through Asia Minor, down the Levant, and across North Africa to Morocco. In 1914, they made up 25% of Ottoman Empire.

The next year the Turks began the systematic part of their slaughter of the Armenians, and the churches of the Middle East have been in catastrophic decline ever since. By 2001, Christians were down to less than 1% of the Turkish population. The recent news out of Egypt—thousands of Coptic Christians fleeing the country since March, with 28 killed and hundreds wounded in Cairo on October 9—is only the latest installment in the ongoing story of the dying of ancient Christianity in the Middle East. The single most dangerous thing in the world to be, right now, is a member of a Christian community in a Muslim country.

The second part of the Vatican's view of the Middle East, however—the idea that what is left of the Christians can be defended by trying to forge relations with Muslim extremists—has proved dangerously wrong, both as an understanding of the Christians' situation and as a strategy for helping them.

Pope Benedict XVI has spoken often and clearly about Islamists, linking their energetic primitivism to the postmodern ennui of European elites. The Vatican's international-affairs officers, however, have been slow to grasp the pope's message, and on they seem to tread on the tired, old paths, seeking in the dark woods of Muslim politics some way to preserve the last remnants of the world as it was.

Christians in Europe and America need to recognize that, of all the Middle Eastern countries, the one that has managed best at keeping its Christians is Israel. The nation's Arab Christian community is small, but for decades it has remained stable. Meanwhile, the birth this year of the Republic of South Sudan has the potential to alter some of the diplomatic landscape. Although the nation is more African than Arab, its emergence as an ethnically Christian nation—the first in the area since France tried to protect the Maronite Christians with the creation of Lebanon in the 1940s—may offer a refuge for threatened Christians throughout the Middle East.

The most interesting and least understood change in the region, however, is the growth over the last decade of an entirely new Christian population. At least 200,000—and possibly as many as half a million—non-Arab Christians now live in Israel. Some are asylum-seekers from Sudan and Eritrea. Others are illegal immigrants who have slipped in from Egypt and guest workers from Goa, South America, and the Philippines. Add in the Jewish converts and the immigrants from Russia, and their numbers start to look significant.

A first-rate piece of reporting by the Associated Press this week describes the emergence of these people as an identifiable group in Israel. They work in normal Israeli jobs, their children speak Hebrew, and they think of themselves as fully Israeli—in marked contrast to the local Arab Christians who feel a cultural tie to Palestinian Muslims and remain generally antagonistic to the State of Israel.

JOSEPH BOTTUM: CHRISTIANS IN THE MIDDLE EAST….SEE NOTE PLEASE | RUTHFULLY YOURS
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:37 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore View Post
Now let's get the other side of the story. HonestReportingCBS 60 Minutes: An Unholy Attack on Israel | HonestReporting

Meanwhile, of course, Tinny has no problem with what is happening to the Christians elsewhere because Israel isn't involved. I guess Tinny feels this Arab Christian writer is lying about the following:

Muslim Persecution of Christians: March, 2012 :: Gatestone Institute
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:31 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Hossfly View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore View Post
Now let's get the other side of the story. HonestReportingCBS 60 Minutes: An Unholy Attack on Israel | HonestReporting

Meanwhile, of course, Tinny has no problem with what is happening to the Christians elsewhere because Israel isn't involved. I guess Tinny feels this Arab Christian writer is lying about the following:

Muslim Persecution of Christians: March, 2012 :: Gatestone Institute
It seems that every person or organization who claims that it is the Muslims who are driving the Christians out of Palestine is somehow connected to Israel. I am sure it is merely a coincidence.
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Christians in Europe and America need to recognize that, of all the Middle Eastern countries, the one that has managed best at keeping its Christians is Israel. The nation's Arab Christian community is small, but for decades it has remained stable. Meanwhile, the birth this year of the Republic of South Sudan has the potential to alter some of the diplomatic landscape. Although the nation is more African than Arab, its emergence as an ethnically Christian nation—the first in the area since France tried to protect the Maronite Christians with the creation of Lebanon in the 1940s—may offer a refuge for threatened Christians throughout the Middle East.

The most interesting and least understood change in the region, however, is the growth over the last decade of an entirely new Christian population. At least 200,000—and possibly as many as half a million—non-Arab Christians now live in Israel. Some are asylum-seekers from Sudan and Eritrea. Others are illegal immigrants who have slipped in from Egypt and guest workers from Goa, South America, and the Philippines. Add in the Jewish converts and the immigrants from Russia, and their numbers start to look significant.

A first-rate piece of reporting by the Associated Press this week describes the emergence of these people as an identifiable group in Israel. They work in normal Israeli jobs, their children speak Hebrew, and they think of themselves as fully Israeli—in marked contrast to the local Arab Christians who feel a cultural tie to Palestinian Muslims and remain generally antagonistic to the State of Israel.
JOSEPH BOTTUM: CHRISTIANS IN THE MIDDLE EAST….SEE NOTE PLEASE | RUTHFULLY YOURS
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Old 04-29-2012, 07:54 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Hossfly View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore View Post
Now let's get the other side of the story. HonestReportingCBS 60 Minutes: An Unholy Attack on Israel | HonestReporting

Meanwhile, of course, Tinny has no problem with what is happening to the Christians elsewhere because Israel isn't involved. I guess Tinny feels this Arab Christian writer is lying about the following:

Muslim Persecution of Christians: March, 2012 :: Gatestone Institute
It seems that every person or organization who claims that it is the Muslims who are driving the Christians out of Palestine is somehow connected to Israel. I am sure it is merely a coincidence.
Is it a coincidence that you don't post any articles as to what the Muslims are doing to the Christians in Palestine? There have been articles about this that you seem to want to avoid, such as Christians leave Bethlehem amid increasing pressure from Muslim forces - NYPOST.com

Meanwhile, many of us are happy to see that the attacks by Muslims on Christians are being condemned in the Sudan by Christian groups, and no doubt they will be condemning all the attacks on Christians by Muslims wherever they occur in Muslim countries. I don't think that you are that fast asleep that you don't realize that this has been happening (as described by that Arab Christian writer).

Global Christian Leaders Denounce Attack On Sudan Presbyterian Church
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Old 04-29-2012, 08:20 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Hossfly View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Hossfly View Post
Now let's get the other side of the story. HonestReportingCBS 60 Minutes: An Unholy Attack on Israel | HonestReporting

Meanwhile, of course, Tinny has no problem with what is happening to the Christians elsewhere because Israel isn't involved. I guess Tinny feels this Arab Christian writer is lying about the following:

Muslim Persecution of Christians: March, 2012 :: Gatestone Institute
It seems that every person or organization who claims that it is the Muslims who are driving the Christians out of Palestine is somehow connected to Israel. I am sure it is merely a coincidence.
Is it a coincidence that you don't post any articles as to what the Muslims are doing to the Christians in Palestine? There have been articles about this that you seem to want to avoid, such as Christians leave Bethlehem amid increasing pressure from Muslim forces - NYPOST.com

Meanwhile, many of us are happy to see that the attacks by Muslims on Christians are being condemned in the Sudan by Christian groups, and no doubt they will be condemning all the attacks on Christians by Muslims wherever they occur in Muslim countries. I don't think that you are that fast asleep that you don't realize that this has been happening (as described by that Arab Christian writer).

Global Christian Leaders Denounce Attack On Sudan Presbyterian Church
Quote:
It seems that every person or organization who claims that it is the Muslims who are driving the Christians out of Palestine is somehow connected to Israel. I am sure it is merely a coincidence.
Quote:
Benny Avni

A New York Post op-ed contributor since late 2008, Benny Avni has covered America’s foreign policy and international affairs for various American and world publications since moving to New York in 1986. Before the Post, he was the New York Sun’s United Nations correspondent and world affairs columnist, breaking exclusive stories during the lead-up and the aftermath of the Iraq war and leading the UN press corps in exposing Turtle Bay corruption. A native of Israel, he has covered the Middle East beat since the 1970s.

Benny Avni | New York Post Columnist - NYPOST.com
Just like I said.
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Old 04-29-2012, 08:21 AM
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Netanyahu was briefed on efforts to stop '60 Minutes' report on Israel's Christians
Quote:
PM was fully updated by Israeli ambassador to U.S. Michael Oren on his attempts to halt an investigative report on Israel's treatment of its Christian community which he thought would harm Israel's interests.

Nonetheless, the attempt to thwart the broadcast of the report has brought up the issue of Israel's treatment of its Christian community all the more forcefully. A source in the Foreign Ministry even said that on some level, the preemptive campaign against the report just intensified the resolve of the "60 Minutes" reporters to air it.

"We awakened the dead - instead of stifling the subject we just increased interest in it," the source said.

Officials in the Prime Minister's Office said that, on the contrary, the attempts to affect the article proved successful. "The broadcast of the article was delayed for several weeks because they reexamined the entire report," officials said. "The article was malignant and harmful, but the wording was much softer than in the original version."

Diplomania-Israel News - Haaretz Israeli News source.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:38 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Hossfly View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore View Post

It seems that every person or organization who claims that it is the Muslims who are driving the Christians out of Palestine is somehow connected to Israel. I am sure it is merely a coincidence.
Is it a coincidence that you don't post any articles as to what the Muslims are doing to the Christians in Palestine? There have been articles about this that you seem to want to avoid, such as Christians leave Bethlehem amid increasing pressure from Muslim forces - NYPOST.com

Meanwhile, many of us are happy to see that the attacks by Muslims on Christians are being condemned in the Sudan by Christian groups, and no doubt they will be condemning all the attacks on Christians by Muslims wherever they occur in Muslim countries. I don't think that you are that fast asleep that you don't realize that this has been happening (as described by that Arab Christian writer).

Global Christian Leaders Denounce Attack On Sudan Presbyterian Church
Quote:
It seems that every person or organization who claims that it is the Muslims who are driving the Christians out of Palestine is somehow connected to Israel. I am sure it is merely a coincidence.
Quote:
Benny Avni

A New York Post op-ed contributor since late 2008, Benny Avni has covered America’s foreign policy and international affairs for various American and world publications since moving to New York in 1986. Before the Post, he was the New York Sun’s United Nations correspondent and world affairs columnist, breaking exclusive stories during the lead-up and the aftermath of the Iraq war and leading the UN press corps in exposing Turtle Bay corruption. A native of Israel, he has covered the Middle East beat since the 1970s.

Benny Avni | New York Post Columnist - NYPOST.com
Just like I said.
A very definitive answer, Tinhorn. Evade, avoid, blame, deny, divert, turnspeak...........ya got it all down pat.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:42 AM
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If this Muslim holy war continues against Christians all over the world, get ready for the next Crusades.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:56 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Jos View Post
Netanyahu was briefed on efforts to stop '60 Minutes' report on Israel's Christians
Quote:
PM was fully updated by Israeli ambassador to U.S. Michael Oren on his attempts to halt an investigative report on Israel's treatment of its Christian community which he thought would harm Israel's interests.

Nonetheless, the attempt to thwart the broadcast of the report has brought up the issue of Israel's treatment of its Christian community all the more forcefully. A source in the Foreign Ministry even said that on some level, the preemptive campaign against the report just intensified the resolve of the "60 Minutes" reporters to air it.

"We awakened the dead - instead of stifling the subject we just increased interest in it," the source said.

Officials in the Prime Minister's Office said that, on the contrary, the attempts to affect the article proved successful. "The broadcast of the article was delayed for several weeks because they reexamined the entire report," officials said. "The article was malignant and harmful, but the wording was much softer than in the original version."

Diplomania-Israel News - Haaretz Israeli News source.
Of course lying about Israel's treatment of the Christians would thwart Israel's interests. Perhaps Jos can tell us if Israel treats those who are non Jewish so terribly why the Bahai's have built a beautiful temple there and the Ahmadis have built a beautiful mosque there. Surely if Israel treats non Jews so abysmally, you wouldn't see these two structures there. Meanwhile, perhaps Jos should find some Filipinos here in the U.S. and ask them how their Catholic relatives are being treated in Israel. This way he can get the truth from the horse's mouth so to speak. I wonder if anyone notices that Jos always uses the leftist-leaning Haaretz as his source and never any other Israeli newspaper. I also wonder if Jos is even aware how those of other religions are treated in Muslim countries; and if he is aware, does he even care.

JT2
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:29 PM
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Washington Post: Lela Gilbert, Author, “Saturday People, Sunday People: Israel through the Eyes of a Christian Sojourner”
Quote:
The hypocrisy of the 60 Minutes attack on Israel is astonishing. The treatment of Christians in Arab lands is devastating and deadly — in recent years hundreds of thousands of Christians have fled Iraq; the Copts of Egypt who can afford to do so are quickly seeking to leave their homeland; the Christians in Syria are caught between a murderous regime and the possibility of anti-Christian pogroms — like those in Iraq — if Assad is overthrown. These are ancient Christian communities that precede Islam by hundreds of years. It is noteworthy that the Jews who once had thriving communities in these and other Muslim lands are gone — only handfuls remain. As the Islamist saying goes, “First the Saturday People, then the Sunday People.” A real investigative report would have immediately discovered these facts.

Meanwhile, Israel -- the only free democracy in the Middle East -- is the focus of a 60 Minutes diatribe as if it were a major violator of religious freedom. How absurd is that? The only limitations on Christians and, for that matter Muslims, who want to worship outside the Palestinian Authority have to do with security — Israel is making sure the terrorist attacks by radical Muslims that have paralyzed Israel in the past do not repeat themselves. Israel is, in fact, the only place in the Middle East where the Christian population is increasing; at the same time Christians who live under the Palestinian Authority are fleeing in a silent exodus.
Backlash builds over ‘60 Minutes’ hatchet job on Israel - Right Turn - The Washington Post
Christians United For Israel...
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Christians United for Israel has grown to become the largest pro-Israel organization in the United States and one of the leading Christian grassroots movements in the world. CUFI spans all fifty states and reaches millions with our message. Each year CUFI holds hundreds of pro-Israel events in cities around the country. And each July, thousands of pro-Israel Christians gather in Washington, D.C. to participate in the CUFI Washington Summit and make their voices heard in support of Israel and the Jewish people.
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:25 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Hossfly View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Hossfly View Post
Is it a coincidence that you don't post any articles as to what the Muslims are doing to the Christians in Palestine? There have been articles about this that you seem to want to avoid, such as Christians leave Bethlehem amid increasing pressure from Muslim forces - NYPOST.com

Meanwhile, many of us are happy to see that the attacks by Muslims on Christians are being condemned in the Sudan by Christian groups, and no doubt they will be condemning all the attacks on Christians by Muslims wherever they occur in Muslim countries. I don't think that you are that fast asleep that you don't realize that this has been happening (as described by that Arab Christian writer).

Global Christian Leaders Denounce Attack On Sudan Presbyterian Church


Quote:
Benny Avni

A New York Post op-ed contributor since late 2008, Benny Avni has covered America’s foreign policy and international affairs for various American and world publications since moving to New York in 1986. Before the Post, he was the New York Sun’s United Nations correspondent and world affairs columnist, breaking exclusive stories during the lead-up and the aftermath of the Iraq war and leading the UN press corps in exposing Turtle Bay corruption. A native of Israel, he has covered the Middle East beat since the 1970s.

Benny Avni | New York Post Columnist - NYPOST.com
Just like I said.
A very definitive answer, Tinhorn. Evade, avoid, blame, deny, divert, turnspeak...........ya got it all down pat.
My assertion was correct and you blame me for all that?
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2012, 01:36 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Hossfly View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Jos View Post
Netanyahu was briefed on efforts to stop '60 Minutes' report on Israel's Christians
Quote:
PM was fully updated by Israeli ambassador to U.S. Michael Oren on his attempts to halt an investigative report on Israel's treatment of its Christian community which he thought would harm Israel's interests.

Nonetheless, the attempt to thwart the broadcast of the report has brought up the issue of Israel's treatment of its Christian community all the more forcefully. A source in the Foreign Ministry even said that on some level, the preemptive campaign against the report just intensified the resolve of the "60 Minutes" reporters to air it.

"We awakened the dead - instead of stifling the subject we just increased interest in it," the source said.

Officials in the Prime Minister's Office said that, on the contrary, the attempts to affect the article proved successful. "The broadcast of the article was delayed for several weeks because they reexamined the entire report," officials said. "The article was malignant and harmful, but the wording was much softer than in the original version."

Diplomania-Israel News - Haaretz Israeli News source.
Of course lying about Israel's treatment of the Christians would thwart Israel's interests. Perhaps Jos can tell us if Israel treats those who are non Jewish so terribly why the Bahai's have built a beautiful temple there and the Ahmadis have built a beautiful mosque there. Surely if Israel treats non Jews so abysmally, you wouldn't see these two structures there. Meanwhile, perhaps Jos should find some Filipinos here in the U.S. and ask them how their Catholic relatives are being treated in Israel. This way he can get the truth from the horse's mouth so to speak. I wonder if anyone notices that Jos always uses the leftist-leaning Haaretz as his source and never any other Israeli newspaper. I also wonder if Jos is even aware how those of other religions are treated in Muslim countries; and if he is aware, does he even care.

JT2
And when Lebanon proposed rebuilding a synagogue damaged in the war, Hezbollah voted in favor of the proposal.
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:57 AM
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Just like I said.
A very definitive answer, Tinhorn. Evade, avoid, blame, deny, divert, turnspeak...........ya got it all down pat.
My assertion was correct and you blame me for all that?
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