How many generals have to criticize how this administration has screwed up Iraq, before the true believers no longer believe?

Answer: To infinity and beyond and then it will still not be enough.

[quote][Sanchez’s conclusions are as follows:

It turned out that the investigative team [Pentagon audit commission] was so thorough, they had actually gone back and looked at the original operational concept that had been prepared by CENTCOM (led by Gen. Franks) before the invasion of Iraq was launched. It was standard procedure to present such a plan, which included such things as: timing for predeployment, deployment, staging for major combat operations, and postdeployment. The concept was briefed up to the highest levels of the U.S. government, including the Secretary of Defense, the National Security Council, and the President of the United States.
And the investigators were now telling me that the plan called for a Phase IV (after combat action) operation that would last twelve to eighteen months.

To say I was shocked would be an understatement. I had never seen any approved CENTCOM campaign plan, either conceptual or detailed, for the post-major combat operations phase. When I was on the ground in Iraq and saw what was going on, I assumed they had done zero Phase IV planning. Now, three years later, I was learning for the first time that my assumption was not completely accurate. In fact, CENTCOM had originally called for twelve to eighteen months of Phase IV activity with active troop deployments. But then CENTCOM had completely walked away by simply stating that the war was over and Phase IV was not their job.

That decision set up the United States for a failed first year in Iraq. There is no question about it. And I was supposed to believe that neither the Secretary of Defense nor anybody above him knew anything about it? Impossible! Rumsfeld knew about it. Everybody on the NSC knew about it, including Condoleezza Rice, George Tenet, and Colin Powell. Vice President Cheney knew about it. And President Bush knew about it.

There's not a doubt in my mind that they all embraced this decision to some degree. And if it had not been for the moral courage of Gen. John Abizaid to stand up to them all and reverse Franks's troop drawdown order, there's no telling how much more damage would have been done.

In the meantime, hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars were unnecessarily spent, and worse yet, too many of our most precious military resource, our American soldiers, were unnecessarily wounded, maimed, and killed as a result. In my mind, this action by the Bush administration amounts to gross incompetence and dereliction of duty.
/QUOTE]


http://tinyurl.com/63xzrq

http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...6831-1,00.html

Let me get this right? You do not want us there and think we should have just pulled out or should now BUT are complaining cause the plan originally was to pull out in 2 years?

Idiot. You sure you were a Col? You are aware no plan survives intact once fighting starts?

__________________
The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd. Indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.

-Bertrand Russell

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable

-Laurence J. Peters

I never said that you had no right to have an opinion. I just said that it was, in fact, worth nothing.

-Maineman ( on 12 June 2007)

cccccc

C'mon RGS, of course he was an officer. That's why he doesn't have a fucking clue as to how things really work. You know, the officer briefs his plan, the NCO "tweaks" it into a functional real plan and the officer claims credit when everything goes great. If it fails, the officer claims that the NCO didn't follow the plan.

__________________
The greatest happiness is to vanquish your enemies, to chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth, to see those dear to them bathed in tears, to clasp to your bosom their wives and daughters.

Genghis Khan

Leroy Green: The truth will be revealed only to eyes unclouded by desire.
Sho'nuff: It's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinkin' they the Last Dragon that gives kung-fu a bad name.

If you were unfortunate enough to work with such assholes, sorry about that.

I didn't, I wasn't. I also was privileged to work with some very good Senior SNCOs and junior troops. Maybe, we sometimes attract what we are.

Please explain why they shit canned the plans for what would have to be done after the initial invasion to counter the insurgency they knew would happen.

You are saying that this was good planning? If you are, you really shouldn't be criticizing my statement, my friend.

Put aside the partisan crap for a second. They had a complete plan to deal with what actually happened and they got rid of it. This put Sanchez in a position that he and his troops were not prepared for. That is good planning.

Rummy knew about the plan and it being shit canned.

Why would anyone "put aside the partisan crap" when talking to you? It is ALL you have. Every post every thread, you attack anyone that does not lean so far left the are off the map. You make bald faced lies and can not back them up, then you play Rodney King and ask " Can we not all just get along?"

You are a Hypocrite of the worst sort.

__________________
The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd. Indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.

-Bertrand Russell

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable

-Laurence J. Peters

I never said that you had no right to have an opinion. I just said that it was, in fact, worth nothing.

-Maineman ( on 12 June 2007)

You are so full of crap, Retired. Please point out all the ball faced lies I have posted.

I don't have to resort to your level of name calling. That in itself says something about the strength of your arguments.

I CRITICIZE BUSH. I WILL CONTINUE TO AS LONG AS OUR TROOPS ARE DYING FOR NOTHING IN IRAQ. YOU MAY BE A TRUE BUSH BELIEVER, I AM NOT. WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU EXPECT? THAT I PRAISE SOMEONE I CONSIDER A MURDERER?

I don't blanket curse the right like you do the left. So get off you high horse and face reality. Your partisanship exceeds mine.

Yup, calling the President a murderer sure proves the point doesn't it?

__________________
The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd. Indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.

-Bertrand Russell

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable

-Laurence J. Peters

I never said that you had no right to have an opinion. I just said that it was, in fact, worth nothing.

-Maineman ( on 12 June 2007)

And you could have made that point without all of the partisan comments you claim to hate so much. You of all people should know how fucked up things get when the civilians get involved in military planning. Wasn't it LBJ that was actually picking bombing targets in Vietnam? Wasn't it Bill Clinton's administration that denied the request for armor in Somalia? Face facts, it ain't one side or the other that has a claim on fucking up the military plans. They both suck at it. Should just tell the military what they want done and let the military go handle it.

__________________
The greatest happiness is to vanquish your enemies, to chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth, to see those dear to them bathed in tears, to clasp to your bosom their wives and daughters.

Genghis Khan

Leroy Green: The truth will be revealed only to eyes unclouded by desire.
Sho'nuff: It's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinkin' they the Last Dragon that gives kung-fu a bad name.

That's my point. Right now it's the Bush boys. So who should I criticize now? LBJ. I already did that for Vietnam.

Retired, you attack the left en masse. I attack you statments and Bush. There is a difference that you can't quite grasp.

I grasp it just fine. All of your statements can't be made without some dig at either Bush or McCain because you hate the republicans so much. What happened, you get riffed by Bush and that's why you're all pissy with him?

__________________
The greatest happiness is to vanquish your enemies, to chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth, to see those dear to them bathed in tears, to clasp to your bosom their wives and daughters.

Genghis Khan

Leroy Green: The truth will be revealed only to eyes unclouded by desire.
Sho'nuff: It's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinkin' they the Last Dragon that gives kung-fu a bad name.

[QUOTEyou hate the republicans so much.][/quote]

Not really, not all republicans. I actually have some relatives who are so misleaded.

You can't grasp that I can totally disdain bush and his NeoCon dimwads and still not hate all republicans. It seems that hate is too common a word in your lexicon.

I get the feelilng some follks like you and retired hate all leftties and thus automactically believe anyone who is on the left must hate all those on the right. That's your perpespective of life, not mine.

I might have voted for McCain 8 years ago. He was, or at least, came across as a different person. Today he has sold his soul to get this job.

I actually like some of the moderate Republicans in office.