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12-02-2008, 06:22 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Neubarth It is not the same damn god. They are totally different and spiritual opposites. Ask any fundamentalist Christian and they will tell you that Allah is Satan. There are no ifs, ands or buts about it. I was a fundamentalist Christian for many years. So I know exactly how they think and what they say about Islam, Muhammad, Allah, and the Quran.
Just because they are told that Allah is satan or Jehovah and Allah are not the same diety, doen't make it a fact.
They need to compare what the Bible says, and then compare it with what the Quran says on the issue.
I think many of them will be surprised at what they find.
Last edited by Sunni Man; 12-02-2008 at 07:17 AM.
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12-02-2008, 06:38 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by editec You're not a Jew Hater?
I rather doubt that.
Hypothetical question:
Your son comes home from college with his Jewish fiance.
Are you:
1. Happy he found somebody to love?
2. Unhappy that your grandchildren will be Jews?
Tell us, non-Jew hater who believes that millions of Jews and non-Jews alike are lying about the holocaust...what is your sentiment when you son marries a Jewess? If my son wanted to marry a Jewish girl. It would be absolutely fine with me.
One of the Prophet Muhammad's wives was a Jewish woman.
The Quran says Muslim men are allowed to marry from "People of the Book"
This meaning Christians and Jews.
I would hope the religion they chose for the children would be Islam. But that's not my decision. It would be theirs to decide.
Last edited by Sunni Man; 12-02-2008 at 06:39 AM.
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12-02-2008, 08:09 AM
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A big problem for your basic premise, Sunni? | 
12-02-2008, 08:16 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Sunni Man If my son wanted to marry a Jewish girl. It would be absolutely fine with me.
One of the Prophet Muhammad's wives was a Jewish woman.
The Quran says Muslim men are allowed to marry from "People of the Book"
This meaning Christians and Jews.
I would hope the religion they chose for the children would be Islam. But that's not my decision. It would be theirs to decide.  ahuh, OK | 
12-02-2008, 12:29 PM
|  | Me @ age 38 in '86. Member #14214 | | Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sandy Ego, Ca
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Quote: Originally Posted by Sunni Man I was a fundamentalist Christian for many years. So I know exactly how they think and what they say about Islam, Muhammad, Allah, and the Quran.
Just because they are told that Allah is satan or Jehovah and Allah are not the same diety, doen't make it a fact.
They need to compare what the Bible says, and then compare it with what the Quran says on the issue.
I think many of them will be surprised at what they find.  Do you really want us to do that? OK.
The Qur'an says Allah tells Muslims to do all the following to unbelievers:
Kill unbelievers wherever they find them (Qur'an 2:191);
murder them and treat them harshly (Qur'an 9:123);
fight them (Qur'an 8:65) until no other religion than Islam is left (Qur'an 2:193);
humiliate them and impose on them a penalty tax if they are Christians or Jews (Qur'an 9:29);
slay them if they are pagans (unbelievers) (Qur'an 9:5);
crucify, or cut off their hands and feet, and expel them from the land in disgrace.
Muslims are told that unbelievers "shall have a great punishment in world hereafter" (Qur'an 5:34);
Muslims are not to befriend their own fathers or brothers if they are not believers (Qur'an 3:28, 9:23);
Muslims are to kill their own family in the battles of Badr and Uhud, and to "strive against the unbelievers with great endeavor" (Qur'an 25:52);
Muslims are to be stern with them because they belong to hell (Qur'an 47:4).
Allah says all those who do not believe will go to hell (Qur'an 5:11).
Allah is a bit kinky in the following quotation, "As for the unbelievers, for them garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowls and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods" (Qur'an 22:9)
I could go on and on and on and on and on, but you can clearly see that the teachings of Allah are totally different from the teachings of Jehovah Jireh, my provider.
Nowhere in the Quran does it say that "Allah loves" his followers, but it constantly says that Allah is going to kill and butcher and maim and hurt and damn people who are not in submission to him. That comes across to me as a very perverted and psychotic religion.
The Christian Bible says that God is not willing thay any shall perish but that all come to salvation through Him.
Sunni, I thank God that you are not a Shitti, but now I pray that you consider the history of Islam and run like hell back to the real God because Allah is trying to delude you into worshipping Satan.
__________________ Oh Boy! What a horrible mess our economy is in. Fat cat bankers have been ruining everything with their self serving greed. That is akin to raping the country and so far nobody is doing anything about putting a stop to it. It is time to wake up America and put all of the crooks in prison where they belong. | 
12-02-2008, 05:54 PM
|  | Me @ age 38 in '86. Member #14214 | | Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sandy Ego, Ca
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Rep Power: 7 | | | Oh, and Sunni, you were a Fundamentalist Christian before you became a follower of Allah. I was a follower of Satanic immoral influence before I became a Christian, and I had a hell of a good time before I sought after God. As a young man, I was damned good looking and women appreciated me and my body.
I was raised by an Atheist/Agnostic father and a mother who was totally indifferent to God. Consequently after I left home and made my way in life, I was a hard drinking and fighting sailor for six years. I was a womanizer and liked my women naked from the head down. They liked me, too, but after years of living like that, I came to the conclusion that perhaps my life needed to be changed if I was ever to settle down and raise a family. There were decent women out there, but they were not interested in me as I was not the type of guy you brought home to Mom and Dad.
I searched and searched for meaning in life and eventually came to the conclusion that there had to be a God or supreme entity that shaped the Universe.
Exactly who or what he or she was, I did not have a clue, but I knew that I was going to find Him or Her. One thing that was obvious to me was that whenever men looked for God, they always came away with the impression that they were not worthy in some way or another. Those who sought God always tried to improve themselves. I wondered why. Why did we have this feeling that we were not good enough? What was up with that?
There were many religions that taught self perfection in this life in order to enter a higher plain in the next. That just did not seem right, but I did not know why. So I wondered and wondered and contined searching. It seemed to me that if there was a supreme being HE or SHE could or should help me to improve to those improved standards that all men were seeking after.
Now, I tried the Bahai faith and listened to their representatives. I researched the Moslim faith. I listened to the guys with the bicycles and decided they were nutz. I listened to the Magic Kingdom Club members when they told me I needed to Awake to their reality. I studied Buddhism and a little of the philosophy of the Hindu faith (I have to admit that I got lost in all of those gods, but was a strong fan of Shiva. There was something about a kickass God that really appealed to me, probably because of my past.) I even studied a little about Jewish faith, but got lost on the necessary blood sacrifice at the temple that was no longer standing. How can you atone for sin if you could no longer offer ritual blood sacrifice for this concept of sin at the Temple that was no longer standing? Something was really missing there (The Temple). Their religion was missing the main ingredient for self correction though I liked their community projects and high rate of donating to the common welfare. The Jews were the most giving people that I had met.
Still, no religion seemed right for me until I walked past the open door of a small neighborhood semi Baptist church and they were singing, "Just as I am, without one plea, but that Thy Blood was shed for me."
Now, I did not have an epiphany at that moment, but the words kept repeating themselves in my mind. Those Baptists believed that you could go to God just as you were! There were no preconditions. No self perfections were necessary. Shoot, I didn't even have to ritually wash before praying. I just had to ask God for help and for forgiveness for the wrong that I had done in life. I got a free Bible and immediately got lost in all the writing that I did not understand. Hummmm? I felt I wasn't worthy, so stayed away, but did have some interest simmering on a far back burner.
A short time later, I was given the book, The Late Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsey. It was about prophecy coming true in the end days of the Earth. That was the first time in my life that somebody made the Bible make sense. Even more important than that, Hal took the Bible seriously as if all those words could be applied to a real human life. THAT was my epiphany.
I read the book and about half way through, just as I was, in my college apartment bedroom, I knelt down beside my bed and asked God to come into my life and remake me. Now, that womanizing stuff was hard for me to get over, and I still liked to drink now and then, but gradually God helped change my ways and turned me into a better man.
He didn't make me instantly perfect, but after all, that would have taken a miracle and God does not do those miracle things that often, but he did bring me along to the point that I became a good family man, faithful to a Christian wife and a devoted father to thirty.
Am I perfect? Hell no! But I am obedient to a God that I now know and trust in, and I know He is there to help me if I ask Him to. I've asked Him to help me with a lot of things, and He has never failed me.
Anybody can really reach out to that God. They just need to remove the barriers that they have set up, or those barriers can keep them from accepting God into their lives. The Barriers do not keep God away from you, but they do keep you from accepting God.
Case in point, the best bumper sticker that I ever read asked two simple questions. They were:
FEEL FAR FROM GOD?
GUESS WHO MOVED?
__________________ Oh Boy! What a horrible mess our economy is in. Fat cat bankers have been ruining everything with their self serving greed. That is akin to raping the country and so far nobody is doing anything about putting a stop to it. It is time to wake up America and put all of the crooks in prison where they belong.
Last edited by Neubarth; 12-02-2008 at 06:17 PM.
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12-03-2008, 10:45 AM
|  | Me @ age 38 in '86. Member #14214 | | Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sandy Ego, Ca
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Yep, the question is not restricted to one religion or sect. I am a firm believer that if people earnestly seek after the God of love they will find Him. It takes a pure heart and a desire to tap into the spirit of good that a good deity projects. Those bad Deities in history just need to be put behind us. We need to move on to the Bright side of the Force (Presence/Glory/Universal Love.......ad infinitum.)
__________________ Oh Boy! What a horrible mess our economy is in. Fat cat bankers have been ruining everything with their self serving greed. That is akin to raping the country and so far nobody is doing anything about putting a stop to it. It is time to wake up America and put all of the crooks in prison where they belong. | 
12-03-2008, 01:27 PM
|  | Aristotle Member #5035 | | Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Chicago
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Rep Power: 52 | | | Many people over look the fact that Iran and Persia have been by far the best people ever to the Jews!
After the Babolyians conquerred Israel, destroyed the first great temple and expelled the Jews, it was Persia, Cyrus the Great, the help the Jews take back Israel, rebuild the temple, to which part of it still stands today, and get basically an self-ruling government back! In fact around this time Jews made up btw 10-20% of the Persian Empire
It was the Persians once again retake Israel (which was renamed Palestine years before by the Romans) from the Byzantine Empire. Although it was for only a few years, they still help the Jews get their homeland back for a short period of time.
During WW II the Iranians treated the Jews a heck of a lot better than the Arabs did.
In '48 the Jews weren't expelled from Iran like they were from the Arab states.
In '79 Khomeini gave a fatwa protecting the Jews
The Shah recognized Israel and maintained an friendly relationship. From '53-'79 was the golden area of the Iranian Jews
There are Jewish Community Centers, 8 Schools (although they are scrutinized and regulated and watched and dictated to on what they can teach - even required to be open on Satur), 2 Kosher stores and 25 Synagogues (11 of them functioning). In fact in the Iranian constitution it is delegated that at least 1 Jew must be elected to Parliament and are a protected class of people. They also have a Jewish cementry, library, hospital (Spair Jewish Hospital) and newspaper (Ofogh-e-Bina)
I have also met some Iranian American Jews. All have stated a similar tune. The average (some) Iranian is discriminatory and hateful towards them (think like whites towards blacks in the '60s, the police are let's just say less than helpful, Muslim kids are not so nice to their kids, employers discriminate, landlords discriminate, schools discrimated etc. Jews are not allowed to serve in the military and are de facto'ly not allowed in the government, other than their 1 parliament seat. Also they stated the Iranian Jews suffer from the poor economy just like anyone else. Jews get harsher punishment and stricter fines. The courts also discriminate. A Jew has a snowballs chance in hell to successful sue a Muslim and nearly always loses when they are sued or on trial for a crime (think of blacks in America around the turn of the century). However, they do say that Arab Muslim Iranians get treated a heck of a lot worse.
I would never characterize the Iranian Jews as happy!
Regardless of the Iranian Jews, the big problem for Israel is the fact that Alamdouchebag is make genocidal threats against Israel and has attacked Jews, Not Israelis, in Argentina!
__________________ The difference - Hamas/Hezbollah/Islamic Jihad/Al Qaeda/ Kalam hide behind civilians using them as human shields and Israel stands in front of them protecting them like shields!
Help Win the Trade War with China, Japan, India and the 3rd World! Join the Fair Tax Coalition - Repeal the 16h Amendment! http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServ...name=about_faq
Anti-zionism morphs into anti-semitism 100% of the time!
"When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews - this is God's own truth." - MLK Jr.
Beer, the problem and the solution to all of life's daily problems. - Homer Simpson | 
12-03-2008, 01:34 PM
|  | Free: Mudholes Stomped Member #3896 | | Join Date: Jan 2007
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Rep Power: 276 | | | Iranian jews were happy enough to tell israel to take their right of return and shove it up a kosher camels ass.
Dont let that keep you from propagating the stale misquote though. Actual translations are clearly jew hating antisemites. | 
12-03-2008, 02:14 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Sunni Man What, no comment from the Zionists on the forum? It is also going to be very tough for you to get anyone to want respond when you use a known anti-semite like Jonathan Cook, who claims to be impartial, but writes highly inaccurate propaganda that would make Hitler proud!
__________________ The difference - Hamas/Hezbollah/Islamic Jihad/Al Qaeda/ Kalam hide behind civilians using them as human shields and Israel stands in front of them protecting them like shields!
Help Win the Trade War with China, Japan, India and the 3rd World! Join the Fair Tax Coalition - Repeal the 16h Amendment! http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServ...name=about_faq
Anti-zionism morphs into anti-semitism 100% of the time!
"When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews - this is God's own truth." - MLK Jr.
Beer, the problem and the solution to all of life's daily problems. - Homer Simpson | 
12-03-2008, 02:17 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by jillian That would require you raise an intelligent point. Not lies which, as gunny said, have already been disproven.
Besides, holocaust deniers are too stupid and hateful to discuss anything with.
put that in your hookah and smoke it. I don't put this conversation in the same light!
Quote: Originally Posted by Sunni Man I thought the article was very interesting and might lead to intelligent discussion.
Not name calling and derision. I agree with Sunni man, on this topic its not worth just blindly attacking him on!
__________________ The difference - Hamas/Hezbollah/Islamic Jihad/Al Qaeda/ Kalam hide behind civilians using them as human shields and Israel stands in front of them protecting them like shields!
Help Win the Trade War with China, Japan, India and the 3rd World! Join the Fair Tax Coalition - Repeal the 16h Amendment! http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServ...name=about_faq
Anti-zionism morphs into anti-semitism 100% of the time!
"When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews - this is God's own truth." - MLK Jr.
Beer, the problem and the solution to all of life's daily problems. - Homer Simpson | 
12-03-2008, 02:24 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Shogun
And don't try to play semantics with me. Hating Zionists and Israel is hating Jews. I just skinned the veneer off for you.
I have no interest in defending Sunni in any single thread BUT that statement is a load of bullshit. Was it possible to hate Nazis and not Germans? Leaping strait to the Antisemite label totally avoids discussion about Iran's population of jews who, ironically, REFUSED their ethnic right of return to israel. Hell, they ARE the second largest population of jews in the middle east.
Iran's proud but discreet Jews
Although Iran and Israel are bitter enemies, few know that Iran is home to the largest number of Jews anywhere in the Middle East outside Israel.
About 25,000 Jews live in Iran and most are determined to remain no matter what the pressures - as proud of their Iranian culture as of their Jewish roots. BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iran's proud but discreet Jews
So, in essence, beyond all the predictable zionist label machine bullshit... Sunni's point stands. Fricking douchebag! Don't even try to speak on the subject of separating anti-zionism and anti-semitism, because you are a blind racist to the core!
__________________ The difference - Hamas/Hezbollah/Islamic Jihad/Al Qaeda/ Kalam hide behind civilians using them as human shields and Israel stands in front of them protecting them like shields!
Help Win the Trade War with China, Japan, India and the 3rd World! Join the Fair Tax Coalition - Repeal the 16h Amendment! http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServ...name=about_faq
Anti-zionism morphs into anti-semitism 100% of the time!
"When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews - this is God's own truth." - MLK Jr.
Beer, the problem and the solution to all of life's daily problems. - Homer Simpson | 
12-03-2008, 02:27 PM
|  | Aristotle Member #5035 | | Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Chicago
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Quote: Originally Posted by Sunni Man That's true!!
Ahmadinejad is one of the best Leaders in the world today! You have to be kidding me! Besides starting a propaganda fight that he can't win. He has set back the Iranian economy for years. His own people hate him, his approval rating are similar to George Bush!
__________________ The difference - Hamas/Hezbollah/Islamic Jihad/Al Qaeda/ Kalam hide behind civilians using them as human shields and Israel stands in front of them protecting them like shields!
Help Win the Trade War with China, Japan, India and the 3rd World! Join the Fair Tax Coalition - Repeal the 16h Amendment! http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServ...name=about_faq
Anti-zionism morphs into anti-semitism 100% of the time!
"When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews - this is God's own truth." - MLK Jr.
Beer, the problem and the solution to all of life's daily problems. - Homer Simpson | 
12-03-2008, 02:29 PM
|  | Registered User Member #11674 | | Join Date: Aug 2008
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Rep Power: 73 | | Things have settled down since the tumultuous times of the Islamic Revolution, when tens of thousands of Jews left for Israel, Western Europe or America. The community has stabilized; new births are keeping up with deaths and emigration. At weddings, the congregants in Tehran or Isfahan will chip in to bring up the rabbi from Shiraz. In the religious atmosphere of the Islamic Republic, intermarriages are not an issue. As long as the Jews keep a low profile, the government does not harass them. Thus, while synagogues thrive, no signs appear on the street to advertise their presence. Sometimes the synagogues are distinguished by faded "Death to Israel" graffiti on the walls, but more often than not a visitor must ask residents where the "Jewish mosque" is.
After 17 years of life in the Islamic Republic, the Jewish community in Iran has achieved a balance. Theocratic Iran is not totalitarian Syria. The Jews have breathing space and freedom between well-defined limits. Scapegoating for political and religious reasons has been declining. Many young Jews talk of leaving, but many others have the opportunity to emigrate and decided against it. Nevertheless, tension is growing about the future, with President Rafsanjani currently barred by the constitution from serving a third term and the hard-line Majlis- speaker, Nateq Nouri, poised to replace him. After more than 2,000 years of both tolerance and oppression in Iran, the Jewish community looks as if it will weather the storm. Jews in contemporary Iran | 
12-03-2008, 02:32 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by GHook93 You have to be kidding me! Besides starting a propaganda fight that he can't win. He has set back the Iranian economy for years. His own people hate him, his approval rating are similar to George Bush! According to the Western press. What you are saying is true.
But I for one, don't believe CNN, Fox, MSNBC, or the rest of the American media. |  | |
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