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If Jefferson founded the Republican Party what place do Democrats have in America?

This is a discussion on If Jefferson founded the Republican Party what place do Democrats have in America? within the History forums, part of the US Discussion category; Quote: Originally Posted by EdwardBaiamonte Quote: Originally Posted by code1211 Did you find any quotes from Jefferson regarding racking up 5 Trillion dollars of debt ...


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  #361 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2012, 04:39 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by EdwardBaiamonte View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
Did you find any quotes from Jefferson regarding racking up 5 Trillion dollars of debt in three years?

Jefferson wrote his letter to long time friend John Taylor,dated NOv.26, 1798, which was in fact advocating that such an amendment be added to the Constitution.Thomas Jefferson who, just two years after the Constitution had been in effect, argued for a Constitutional amendment: “I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our Constitution. I would be willing to depend on that alone for the reduction of the administration of our government to the genuine principles of its Constitution; I mean an article, taking from the Federal government the power of borrowing.”

Thomas Jefferson, letter to Judge Spencer Roane, September 6, 1819

The principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.


When Jefferson assumed the Presidency, the crisis in France had passed. He slashed Army and Navy expenditures, cut the budget, eliminated the tax on whiskey so unpopular in the West, yet reduced the national debt by a third. He also sent a naval squadron to fight the Barbary pirates, who were harassing American commerce in the Mediterranean
Jefferson was a great liberal, in fact, America's first liberal president. But then as most politicians when they gain office he seemed to lose his fear of govenment. I guess if one is president he automatically loses some fears. Jefferson also borrowed some 15 million dollars to buy Lousiana and try as he might, could find nothing in the Constitution that allowed a president to buy foreign land and so Jefferson now like Hamilton was embarked on a loose interpretation of the Constitution.
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  #362 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2012, 05:11 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by regent View Post
Jefferson was a great liberal, in fact, America's first liberal president.
of course thats perfectly idiotic since Jefferson came after the liberal Federalists, Washington and Adams, whom he defeated over the issue of limited government.


Quote: Originally Posted by regent View Post
But then as most politicians when they gain office he seemed to lose his fear of govenment.
100% idiotic of course. He was opposed to big government, not to a big country geographically



Quote: Originally Posted by regent View Post
I guess if one is president he automatically loses some fears. Jefferson also borrowed some 15 million dollars to buy Lousiana and try as he might, could find nothing in the Constitution that allowed a president to buy foreign land and so Jefferson now like Hamilton was embarked on a loose interpretation of the Constitution.
it was loose for sure but it was a one-off, non ideological event that all sides agreed was incredibly good for the country. It had nothing to do with his ideology.
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  #363 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2012, 06:59 PM
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You have your history and the historians have theirs. That's got to be a real decider.
Anyway it seems you are saying that if both sides agree that something is good for the country the Constitution is immaterial. Good idea.
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  #364 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2012, 07:15 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by regent View Post

You have your history and the historians have theirs.
know idea what your subject is

Quote: Originally Posted by regent View Post

That's got to be a real decider.
that???? whats that you boob!!

Quote: Originally Posted by regent View Post
Anyway it seems you are saying that if both sides agree that something is good for the country the Constitution is immaterial. Good idea.
as long as its non ideological, happens once a century or less, and looks to return $trillions and trillions and $trillions as the Purchase did, why not!!
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  #365 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2012, 07:54 PM
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[quote=EdwardBaiamonte;4991486]
Quote: Originally Posted by regent View Post

You have your history and the historians have theirs.
know idea what your subject is

Quote: Originally Posted by regent View Post

That's got to be a real decider.
that???? whats that you boob!!

[quote=regent;4991401]

Good deal or not, the conservatives screamed, violation of the Constitution, a waste of money, and worse they knew that soon that section would be sending liberals to the Congress.
When the vote for money came up in the House the vote was 59 for, and 57 against, seems close?
But I guess that a precedent had been set, if it's a good deal, the Constitution can be by-passed. And Jefferson probably feared government even less after the purchase. Why fear government when you are the government.
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  #366 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2012, 04:27 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by regent View Post
You have your history and the historians have theirs. That's got to be a real decider.
Anyway it seems you are saying that if both sides agree that something is good for the country the Constitution is immaterial. Good idea.


By what means were the funds approved to be spent?

By any measure, this was a good deal from our side and the French just wanted to be shed of it. The legal transfer avoided a possible war with Britain which was spoiling for a fight already.

Did jeferson end up with a deficit or a surplus or a balance?
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  #367 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2012, 04:28 PM
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[quote=regent;4991690][quote=EdwardBaiamonte;4991486]
Quote: Originally Posted by regent View Post

You have your history and the historians have theirs.
know idea what your subject is



that???? whats that you boob!!

Quote: Originally Posted by regent View Post

Good deal or not, the conservatives screamed, violation of the Constitution, a waste of money, and worse they knew that soon that section would be sending liberals to the Congress.
When the vote for money came up in the House the vote was 59 for, and 57 against, seems close?
But I guess that a precedent had been set, if it's a good deal, the Constitution can be by-passed. And Jefferson probably feared government even less after the purchase. Why fear government when you are the government.

Was the Louisiana Purchase ever challenged in the courts?
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  #368 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2012, 06:13 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by regent View Post
Why fear government when you are the government.
Obviously because in the future a liberal may be the government. The Constitution was designed to make liberal big government illegal.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." - Jefferson

Notice how liberty and government are presented as opposites. That is something a liberal lacks the IQ to understand.
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  #369 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2012, 06:30 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
Did jeferson end up with a deficit or a surplus or a balance?
Thomas Jefferson who, just two years after the Constitution had been in effect, argued for a Constitutional amendment: “I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our Constitution. I would be willing to depend on that alone for the reduction of the administration of our government to the genuine principles of its Constitution; I mean an article, taking from the Federal government the power of borrowing.”

Thomas Jefferson, letter to Judge Spencer Roane, September 6, 1819

The principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.


When Jefferson assumed the Presidency, the crisis in France had passed. He slashed Army and Navy expenditures, cut the budget, eliminated the tax on whiskey so unpopular in the West, yet reduced the national debt by a third. He also sent a naval squadron to fight the Barbary pirates, who were harassing American commerce in the Mediterranean.

"The path we have to pursue[when Jefferson was President ] is so quiet that we have nothing scarcely to propose to our Legislature."-Jefferson
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  #370 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2012, 06:44 PM
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Well if the Constitution was designed to make big liberal government illegal, it failed. But where in the Constitution does it say big liberal government is against the law, or big government or liberal government are unlawful? The Constitution was written with liberal ideas from the Age of Enlightenent and Reason, and those liberal ideas appear in the Declaration of Independence written by a liberal, Jefferson.
Government was limited in power, not in size, by the Constitution that gave the national government limited powers, other powers to the states. and and the Bill of Rights. The state powers were pretty much destroyed by the conservative Marshall Court with Marbury.
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  #371 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2012, 06:55 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by regent View Post
Well if the Constitution was designed to make big liberal government illegal, it failed.
yes Jefferson said the natural order was for liberty to lose ground and government to gain. This is the story of all of human history! Humans are sheep looking for a liberal Hitler, they are not individuals.

Quote: Originally Posted by regent View Post
But where in the Constitution does it say big liberal government is against the law, or big government or liberal government are unlawful?
the whole thing is designed to restrict government more than any other founding document in history. The Feds have a few enumerated powers only . BO calls it a document of negative liberties, i.e., it is about what the government cant do! Now you understand the American idea!


Quote: Originally Posted by regent View Post
The Constitution was written with liberal ideas from the Age of Enlightenent and Reason, and those liberal ideas appear in the Declaration of Independence written by a liberal, Jefferson.
they were liberal ideas in that they represented change, but it was change to very very limited Republican conservative government. This concept will be over a liberal's head. Don't even try to grasp it.


Quote: Originally Posted by regent View Post
Government was limited in power, not in size,
sadly for your ego power and size are about the same thing


Quote: Originally Posted by regent View Post

by the Constitution that gave the national government limited powers,
yes it, in effect, made liberalsim illegal


Quote: Originally Posted by regent View Post
The state powers were pretty much destroyed by the conservative Marshall Court with Marbury.
Jefferson despised Marshall who was a liberal Federalist. Marbury did not become an important case for almost 100 years.

Last edited by EdwardBaiamonte; 03-21-2012 at 06:57 PM.
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  #372 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2012, 08:30 PM
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Well if liberalism, big government and liberal government are illegal what in the world are conservatives so upset about? As for Marbury it might have beome important in 1810 with Fletcher v. Peck the beginning of states losing their powers, never to regain.
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  #373 (permalink)  
Old 03-22-2012, 03:16 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by regent View Post
Well if liberalism, big government and liberal government are illegal what in the world are conservatives so upset about?
murder is illegal, dear, but there is a lot of it
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  #374 (permalink)  
Old 03-22-2012, 04:31 PM
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You just can't make that Mickey Mouse history work can you?
Jefferson was liberal, his Democratic-Republican party was liberal, and his dislike for, and his relationship with Marshall has no bearing on anything. There are no Constitutional prohibitions against the size of government, or a liberal government, small government or conservative government. Article One, Section Eight is a list of things the government can do.
The United States began as a liberal nation and has become more democratic over the years and Mickey Mouse history can't change that.
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  #375 (permalink)  
Old 03-22-2012, 06:06 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by regent View Post

Jefferson was liberal,
you mean classical liberal, i.e., for very very limited government.

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves"-Jefferson


Quote: Originally Posted by regent View Post
his Democratic-Republican party was liberal,
if his Party was called Democratic-Republican in 18th Century I'll pay you $10,000. Bet??


Quote: Originally Posted by regent View Post
There are no Constitutional prohibitions against the size of government, or a liberal government, small government or conservative government.
idiot!!! if true then the document would mean nothing.

"Our peculiar security is in the possession of a written Constitution. Let us not make it a blank paper by construction."

Thomas Jefferson, letter to Wilson Nicholas, September 7, 1803


Quote: Originally Posted by regent View Post
Article One, Section Eight is a list of things the government can do.
yes Founders gave Feds a few enumerated power. You're of course a liberal and a pure idiot. BO was Constitutional law professor. He said it is document of negative liberties, i.e., about things governement cant do. NOw you know why liberals spied for Stalin and why BO voted to left of Bernie Sanders

Quote: Originally Posted by regent View Post
The United States began as a liberal nation
you mean classicial liberal,i.e., for change to very limited government


Quote: Originally Posted by regent View Post
and has become more democratic over the years .
what??????????
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