US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

What Happened To States Rights?

This is a discussion on What Happened To States Rights? within the History forums, part of the US Discussion category; 1. “Efficiency of state governments is impaired as they relinquish and turn over to the federal government responsibilities which are rightfully theirs.” Calvin Coolidge, PART ...


Go Back   US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum > US Discussion > History

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2010, 02:27 PM
PoliticalChic's Avatar
Fighting Thugs and Libs
Member #12394
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 31,035
Thanks: 3,727
Thanked 10,797 Times in 6,308 Posts
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 22955
PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati
PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati
What Happened To States Rights?

1. “Efficiency of state governments is impaired as they relinquish and turn over to the federal government responsibilities which are rightfully theirs.” Calvin Coolidge, PART TWO: Unease in the Golden Age (Page 1 of 3) - "Clearly Vicious as a Matter of Policy": The Fight Against Federal-Aid - Highway History - FHWA

2. The Founders envisioned a decentralized political arrangement, one which empowers individuals because it dispersed power, rather than amassing it in one place. Read the Tenth Amendment, ratified in 1791:

a. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

b. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis referred to the state legislatures as "laboratories of democracy" willing to tackle new and innovative approaches in meeting the needs of society.

3. Referred to as ‘federalism,’ it was a relationship between the central authority and states, discussed in Federalist #39, by Madison. ‘ Citizens of each State had a duty to insure their States retained their constitutional sovereignty, a duty to support legislators who put a check on general power, who interposed on the citizens behalf. It is for this reason James Madison words make sense when writing, in Federalist 39, “Each State, in ratifying the Constitution, is considered as a sovereign body, independent of all others, and only to be bound by its own voluntary act. In this relation, then, the new Constitution will, if established, be a FEDERAL, and not a NATIONAL constitution.” Even those who disagreed agreed on federalism – Tenth Amendment Center

a. “FEDERALISM-THE IDEA THAT our central government's powers are delegated to it by the states and are therefore limited is a rare and delicate flower that blooms briefly in election years.” http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/regv7n3/v7n3-7.pdf

b. Indicia of the intentions of the Founders can be found in the existence of the electoral college rather than a majority-rule system, and the statement in Article VI that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land, and that includes the Tenth Amendment.


4. Further, the distance of the decision makers from the locale of the problem is inversely proportional to the chance of satisfaction. Professor Lino Graglia, University of Texas, explained that decentralizing power “controls the tyranny:” "It can be shown arithmetically that if an issue is decided by larger units, involving more people,
the likelihood increases that fewer people will obtain their preference and more will be disappointed... .As the power source is farther removed from the individuals
affected, what might be called dissonance or interference in transmission-in communication and responsiveness--increases....” http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/regv7n3/v7n3-7.pdf

a. Another reason why federalism is the best approach, is that it allows folks to “vote with their feet,” and if they are unhappy with one jurisdiction, move to one more in line with their wishes. This mirrors the free-market system with businesses competing for customers. Where the federal government is a monopoly, federalism is a vehicle for freedom.

b. But the federalism is a problem for progressives, as states have less of a progressive tax system: property taxes and sales taxes tend to be less graduated, and some states have no income tax, as well. Redistribution is slowed to a trickle.

5. Careful consideration should be used before assigning jurisdiction to the federal government, rather than local authorities. National security, judiciary, international relations, and patents and copyrights are properly within federal purview. Beyond those areas, hegemony lies with the states and the people.

a. Before the Civil War, petitions to the federal government for aid of for subsidies were rarely approved. In 1817, Madison vetoed a road and canal construction bill as unconstitutional. In 1832, Andrew Jackson vetoed a bill to improve harbors and rivers as it would have meant “…a principle that concedes to the General Government an unlimited power over the subject of internal improvements,…” Andrew Jackson: Veto Message

The states should reclaim the power that the progressive century has abbreviated.
__________________
People are most conservative on issues that they know most about. --Ann Coulter
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
USMessageBoard.com is the premier Political Forum Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see these ads. Please Register - It's Free!
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2010, 02:37 PM
uscitizen's Avatar
unregistered user
Member #5174
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: My Shack
Posts: 45,943
Thanks: 7,022
Thanked 9,092 Times in 6,629 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 2663
uscitizen has disabled reputation
What happened to states rights? both party's have whittled them down.
And the partisan hacks of both sides supported the moves and mostly still do.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2010, 02:48 PM
PoliticalChic's Avatar
Fighting Thugs and Libs
Member #12394
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 31,035
Thanks: 3,727
Thanked 10,797 Times in 6,308 Posts
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 22955
PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati
PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati PoliticalChic gives orders to the Illuminati
Quote: Originally Posted by uscitizen View Post
What happened to states rights? both party's have whittled them down.
And the partisan hacks of both sides supported the moves and mostly still do.
Hey, good to see you back!

Sadly, you are right in the post.
__________________
People are most conservative on issues that they know most about. --Ann Coulter
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2010, 02:55 PM
manifold's Avatar
boorish no buddy
Member #8806
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: in your dreams
Posts: 37,580
Thanks: 5,319
Thanked 8,372 Times in 5,866 Posts
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 1631
manifold has a reputation beyond repute manifold has a reputation beyond repute
manifold has a reputation beyond repute manifold has a reputation beyond repute manifold has a reputation beyond repute manifold has a reputation beyond repute manifold has a reputation beyond repute manifold has a reputation beyond repute manifold has a reputation beyond repute manifold has a reputation beyond repute manifold has a reputation beyond repute manifold has a reputation beyond repute manifold has a reputation beyond repute manifold has a reputation beyond repute
Abe Lincoln --> <-- State's rights
__________________
For more information, email me at: lewzaar@yahoo.com
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2010, 02:58 PM
Big Black Dog's Avatar
Good doggie
Member #19441
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Northwestern Illinois
Posts: 21,443
Thanks: 4,977
Thanked 9,406 Times in 5,178 Posts
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 10314
Big Black Dog gives orders to the Illuminati Big Black Dog gives orders to the Illuminati Big Black Dog gives orders to the Illuminati
Big Black Dog gives orders to the Illuminati Big Black Dog gives orders to the Illuminati Big Black Dog gives orders to the Illuminati Big Black Dog gives orders to the Illuminati Big Black Dog gives orders to the Illuminati Big Black Dog gives orders to the Illuminati Big Black Dog gives orders to the Illuminati Big Black Dog gives orders to the Illuminati Big Black Dog gives orders to the Illuminati Big Black Dog gives orders to the Illuminati Big Black Dog gives orders to the Illuminati Big Black Dog gives orders to the Illuminati Big Black Dog gives orders to the Illuminati Big Black Dog gives orders to the Illuminati
What Happened To States Rights?

It turned into States "Left".
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2010, 05:35 AM
Registered User
Member #13758
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Portland, Ore.
Posts: 32,069
Thanks: 12,396
Thanked 6,486 Times in 4,814 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 2654
Old Rocks has a reputation beyond repute Old Rocks has a reputation beyond repute Old Rocks has a reputation beyond repute Old Rocks has a reputation beyond repute
Old Rocks has a reputation beyond repute Old Rocks has a reputation beyond repute Old Rocks has a reputation beyond repute Old Rocks has a reputation beyond repute Old Rocks has a reputation beyond repute Old Rocks has a reputation beyond repute
What happened to states rights? We became a nation, and the time to cross this nation dropped from months to hours, and the time to communicate from coast to coast, from weeks to instantly. The world became very much smaller through communication and modern technology. States essentially are no more useful as major units than counties were previously. Just a fact of life, a reality the Conservatives would love to ignore.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2010, 05:49 AM
RetiredGySgt's Avatar
Registered User
Member #5176
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 33,697
Thanks: 40
Thanked 6,514 Times in 4,019 Posts
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 3218
RetiredGySgt has a reputation beyond repute RetiredGySgt has a reputation beyond repute RetiredGySgt has a reputation beyond repute RetiredGySgt has a reputation beyond repute
RetiredGySgt has a reputation beyond repute RetiredGySgt has a reputation beyond repute RetiredGySgt has a reputation beyond repute RetiredGySgt has a reputation beyond repute RetiredGySgt has a reputation beyond repute RetiredGySgt has a reputation beyond repute RetiredGySgt has a reputation beyond repute RetiredGySgt has a reputation beyond repute RetiredGySgt has a reputation beyond repute RetiredGySgt has a reputation beyond repute RetiredGySgt has a reputation beyond repute RetiredGySgt has a reputation beyond repute RetiredGySgt has a reputation beyond repute RetiredGySgt has a reputation beyond repute RetiredGySgt has a reputation beyond repute
Quote: Originally Posted by Old Rocks View Post
What happened to states rights? We became a nation, and the time to cross this nation dropped from months to hours, and the time to communicate from coast to coast, from weeks to instantly. The world became very much smaller through communication and modern technology. States essentially are no more useful as major units than counties were previously. Just a fact of life, a reality the Conservatives would love to ignore.
You prove just how fucking stupid you are with every post.
__________________
The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd. Indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.
-Bertrand Russell

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable
-Laurence J. Peters
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2010, 05:56 AM
Registered User
Member #13758
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Portland, Ore.
Posts: 32,069
Thanks: 12,396
Thanked 6,486 Times in 4,814 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 2654
Old Rocks has a reputation beyond repute Old Rocks has a reputation beyond repute Old Rocks has a reputation beyond repute Old Rocks has a reputation beyond repute
Old Rocks has a reputation beyond repute Old Rocks has a reputation beyond repute Old Rocks has a reputation beyond repute Old Rocks has a reputation beyond repute Old Rocks has a reputation beyond repute Old Rocks has a reputation beyond repute
Po' widdle panties all in a knot? Conservatives and reality do not mix.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2010, 06:01 AM
Mr. Forgot-it-All
Member #11278
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Maine
Posts: 41,058
Thanks: 14,944
Thanked 9,343 Times in 6,628 Posts
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 3145
editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute
editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
What Happened To States Rights?

They became a burden thanks to the CSA's treason to the union.

Ever since that time the States rights issue has lost its luster.

Through in FEDERAL income tax and "revenue:" sharing and the states are appendages to the FED.



Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2010, 06:37 AM
zzzz's Avatar
Just a regular American
Member #24315
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Yountsville
Posts: 3,068
Thanks: 184
Thanked 836 Times in 644 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 262
zzzz may be on a path to greatness zzzz may be on a path to greatness zzzz may be on a path to greatness zzzz may be on a path to greatness zzzz may be on a path to greatness zzzz may be on a path to greatness zzzz may be on a path to greatness zzzz may be on a path to greatness zzzz may be on a path to greatness zzzz may be on a path to greatness zzzz may be on a path to greatness zzzz may be on a path to greatness
The constitution was a compromise between those states that wanted a strong central government and those that wanted a loose confederation. With only 13 states to deal with and the corresponding officials and legislatures it took a lot of hard bargaining to come up with a concept of a central government that would govern a group of states that everyone would vote for. Therefore certain state rights were given to a central government entity and the rest were retained. Over time as the country has grown and went through growing pains, including the disagreement in the 1860’s, the states have lost a great deal of their autonomy to the Federal government. The founders designed the constitution so that it would grow with the country providing an amendment process to change it and even allowing a constitution convention to make major changes if necessary. That process is what makes the constitution one of the most wonderful articles of governing in the world.

The argument about states’ rights is one that will last as long as this country exists under the constitution. The problem for those that call for the return of more power to the states is that it is very hard to get back what you have given away. Once politicos go to Washington they obtain the power of a strong central government and they see that if they give it away they will lose some of their power. They may have said previously that they were for state’s rights and even when they get there they may voice that opinion but in reality once there, it is just window dressing. Realistically the only way to for the states to regain those rights is through a constitutional convention.

But what does state’s right mean? Just how much do you want the state to be able to control? Interstate commerce and national security of course is a federal thing. States could take over environmental issues, labor issues, education and other areas. Is this a good thing? It would certainly reduce the size of the federal government some but would it reduce your federal tax. It would certainly raise your state taxes. When you talk about state rights you need to look at the ramifications of state rights. Sure it sounds nice as a rallying point for politicos but look at what it means in real life terms.
__________________
Behind my smile is everything you’ll never understand..
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to zzzz For This Useful Post:
Old Rocks (12-30-2010), Talismen (12-29-2010)
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2010, 07:53 AM
Banned
Member #19207
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: everywhere and nowhere
Posts: 25,614
Thanks: 2,141
Thanked 2,360 Times in 1,857 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 0
JBeukema may be on a path to greatness JBeukema may be on a path to greatness JBeukema may be on a path to greatness JBeukema may be on a path to greatness JBeukema may be on a path to greatness JBeukema may be on a path to greatness JBeukema may be on a path to greatness JBeukema may be on a path to greatness JBeukema may be on a path to greatness JBeukema may be on a path to greatness JBeukema may be on a path to greatness JBeukema may be on a path to greatness JBeukema may be on a path to greatness
Quote:
What Happened To States Rights?
Texas v. White
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2010, 07:55 AM
iamwhatiseem's Avatar
Registered User
Member #24610
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9,426
Thanks: 1,631
Thanked 3,957 Times in 2,469 Posts
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 3730
iamwhatiseem has a reputation beyond repute
iamwhatiseem has a reputation beyond repute iamwhatiseem has a reputation beyond repute iamwhatiseem has a reputation beyond repute iamwhatiseem has a reputation beyond repute iamwhatiseem has a reputation beyond repute iamwhatiseem has a reputation beyond repute iamwhatiseem has a reputation beyond repute iamwhatiseem has a reputation beyond repute iamwhatiseem has a reputation beyond repute iamwhatiseem has a reputation beyond repute iamwhatiseem has a reputation beyond repute iamwhatiseem has a reputation beyond repute iamwhatiseem has a reputation beyond repute iamwhatiseem has a reputation beyond repute
States rights will be at an all time low by year end 2011-12.
Reason? The fed will bail out several states and will assume some supervisory roles because of it.
Just wait.
__________________
Craft beer: 1,000's of choices that are unique and made using the highest quality malts and grains
Corporate beer: A handful of choices that are almost impossible to tell apart, made using corn and rice
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to iamwhatiseem For This Useful Post:
editec (12-29-2010)
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2010, 07:59 AM
Sunni Man's Avatar
<< Hitler scare-jew
Member #11674
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Dar al Harb
Posts: 27,295
Thanks: 7,714
Thanked 6,381 Times in 4,185 Posts
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
States Rights were buried with Lincoln's victory in the War of Northern Aggression
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2010, 08:02 AM
Mr. Forgot-it-All
Member #11278
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Maine
Posts: 41,058
Thanks: 14,944
Thanked 9,343 Times in 6,628 Posts
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 3145
editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute
editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute editec has a reputation beyond repute
Quote: Originally Posted by iamwhatiseem View Post
States rights will be at an all time low by year end 2011-12.
Reason? The fed will bail out several states and will assume some supervisory roles because of it.
Just wait.
Perceptive.

Sadly this trend (of slowly making the states powerless by comparison to the FED, I mean) has been happening our entire lives.

Both the Dems and the Reps are behind it.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to editec For This Useful Post:
Sunni Man (12-29-2010)
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2010, 08:04 AM
Talismen's Avatar
Lady Templar & Kafir
Member #27315
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 343
Thanks: 444
Thanked 74 Times in 58 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 19
Talismen could own USMB Talismen could own USMB Talismen could own USMB Talismen could own USMB Talismen could own USMB Talismen could own USMB
States rights slowly die away, every time a state takes money from the fed, for some idiotic reason.

And, as with ANYONE or ANYTHING that takes money from the fed...Remember, now that you've received the money, they get to tell you what you can do, and not do, with it. Then, if you want more, they get to tell you what you can do, and not do, in order to get it.

The definition of dependence, and even political slavery...Personified.
__________________
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people’s minds."
-- Samuel Adams

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson
* * *
In the wake of the Arizona shootings and the nasty political aftermath, a disclaimer: For those interested in actually practicing "civil discourse" remember the following - Disagreement, in and of itself, is NOT "extremism". Pointing out differences is NOT "extremism". Favoring one system of government over another is NOT "extremism". Standing up for our military, our constitution, or a particular political ideology is NOT "extremism". Telling the truth and being able to factually prove it, about something or someone, is NOT "extremism".
Reply With Quote
Reply


Lower Navigation
Go Back   US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum > US Discussion > History
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:45 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.