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07-19-2009, 10:02 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Care4all  ok...i concede that preexisting conditions probably would have been singled out, though as i explained, variations in categories of the family could be variations of risk categories....?
crap
it'd be nice to be able to read a law or reg and actually understand it without these acrobatic exercises!
what do you think 'variations in categories' means JR? I believe it is referring to familial status...variations in familial categories.
But it is as clear as mud...
__________________
Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.
Will Rogers
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel or envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
Winston Churchill
And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country.
JFK
No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session. -- Mark Twain |
07-19-2009, 10:59 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Navy1960 (b) REQUIREMENTS FOR QUALIFIED HEALTH BENE2
FITS PLANS.— On or after the first day of Y1, a health
3 benefits plan shall not be a qualified health benefits plan
4 under this division unless the plan meets the applicable
5 requirements of the following subtitles for the type of plan
6 and plan year involved:
7 (1) Subtitle B (relating to affordable coverage).
8 (2) Subtitle C (relating to essential benefits).
9 (3) Subtitle D (relating to consumer protec10
tion). http://energycommerce.house.gov/Pres...0714/aahca.pdf
It is my intention to comb through this entire bill and point out the holes in it. Starting with this one, qualified plans, if a plan does not meet the qualifications then you will be cancelled, so much for the *If you like your insurance you can keep it* Are you planning to comb through all 16 health care proposals now before Congress?
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Partisanship should be used to define issues;
bipartisanship to resolve them.
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07-19-2009, 11:00 AM
| | Registered User Member #8708 | | Join Date: Feb 2008
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Quote: Originally Posted by MaggieMae
Quote: Originally Posted by Navy1960 (b) REQUIREMENTS FOR QUALIFIED HEALTH BENE2
FITS PLANS.— On or after the first day of Y1, a health
3 benefits plan shall not be a qualified health benefits plan
4 under this division unless the plan meets the applicable
5 requirements of the following subtitles for the type of plan
6 and plan year involved:
7 (1) Subtitle B (relating to affordable coverage).
8 (2) Subtitle C (relating to essential benefits).
9 (3) Subtitle D (relating to consumer protec10
tion). http://energycommerce.house.gov/Pres...0714/aahca.pdf
It is my intention to comb through this entire bill and point out the holes in it. Starting with this one, qualified plans, if a plan does not meet the qualifications then you will be cancelled, so much for the *If you like your insurance you can keep it* Are you planning to comb through all 16 health care proposals now before Congress? Maybe could you post all of them?
__________________
Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.
Will Rogers
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel or envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
Winston Churchill
And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country.
JFK
No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session. -- Mark Twain |
07-19-2009, 11:03 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Navy1960 I was beginning to wonder if anyone was ever going to notice this thread jr, as this thread from the actual bill. All the talk aside, about " you like your healthcare you can keep it" there is is in black and white for all to see. When a Govt. starts to mandate things and punish those who choose not to enroll it and clearly this bill intends to take away coverage on those people in plans it does not like. The intent is clear , and it's obvious that the sheer cost of doing this will bankrupt this nation. As for the Illegal Alein healthcare issue, what do you suppose the message will be to others wishing to enter the country illegally now? Navy, you are quoting ONLY from the House version. The Senate has yet to pass anything, even out of committee, after which the agreed-upon FINAL DRAFT will go to conference committee (between the House and the Senate) for a final version. Go here to see where it's at, right now.
Please stop SCARING people into believing this is a DONE DEAL. IT IS NOT!!!! Health Care for America NOW - Steps To Win
__________________ ***
Partisanship should be used to define issues;
bipartisanship to resolve them.
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07-19-2009, 11:05 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Care4all
Quote: Originally Posted by Navy1960 ‘‘(4) INDIVIDUALS RESIDING IN POSSESSIONS
12 OF THE UNITED STATES.—Any individual who is a
13 bona fide resident of any possession of the United
14 States (as determined under section 937(a)) for any
15 taxable year (and any qualifying child residing with
16 such individual) shall be treated for purposes of this
17 section as covered by acceptable coverage during
18 such taxable year.
In case you were wondering if Illegal Aliens were covered under this, the answer is yes. what is a possession of the united states described in 937a? are you really sure this relates to illegal aliens in the continental usa? Operative words. Illegal aliens will NOT be automatically covered.
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Partisanship should be used to define issues;
bipartisanship to resolve them.
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07-19-2009, 11:16 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by jreeves
Quote: Originally Posted by Care4all
Quote: Originally Posted by jreeves
Should US taxpayers have to provide free health care to non citizens?
If they are here legally and are paying taxes on all that they are earning while here jr, then I do not see a problem with them being able to be a part of this program. So all the workers that travel over the Mexican border to work in the US shouldn't be covered under UHC, correct? Since, they don't pay US income taxes.... First off, quit referring to ANYTHING CURRENTLY BEING DEBATED IN WASHINGTON as "UHC" (Universal Health Care). This continues to be distorted in the hopes that you'll get the masses of the clueless to believe it.
Second, determining whether or not a resident of Mexico with a LEGAL work visa will probably be considered on an individual basis, with consideration giving to whether that person actually did pay into our tax system, which is frankly highly doubtful. Those are points that ultimately will need to be worked out, and not points that are major enough in context to determine the character of the broader bill.
__________________ ***
Partisanship should be used to define issues;
bipartisanship to resolve them.
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07-19-2009, 11:18 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by MaggieMae
Quote: Originally Posted by Navy1960 I was beginning to wonder if anyone was ever going to notice this thread jr, as this thread from the actual bill. All the talk aside, about " you like your healthcare you can keep it" there is is in black and white for all to see. When a Govt. starts to mandate things and punish those who choose not to enroll it and clearly this bill intends to take away coverage on those people in plans it does not like. The intent is clear , and it's obvious that the sheer cost of doing this will bankrupt this nation. As for the Illegal Alein healthcare issue, what do you suppose the message will be to others wishing to enter the country illegally now? Navy, you are quoting ONLY from the House version. The Senate has yet to pass anything, even out of committee, after which the agreed-upon FINAL DRAFT will go to conference committee (between the House and the Senate) for a final version. Go here to see where it's at, right now.
Please stop SCARING people into believing this is a DONE DEAL. IT IS NOT!!!! Health Care for America NOW - Steps To Win Navy is actually posting words from the original House bill, yet you post this trash, how becoming of you....
A little about Health Care for America Now(then you wonder why people question your credibility)... Profile: Health Care for America Now : NPR
Health Care for America Now is a coalition of prominent labor unions and liberal advocacy groups pushing for affordable health care and stricter regulation of the health insurance industry.
Funders: The coalition's steering committee members commit at least $500,000 to the effort. Members include: ACORN, AFSCME, Americans United for Change, Campaign for America's Future, Center for American Progress Action Fund, MoveOn.org, National Council of La Raza, National Education Association, Planned Parenthood Federation of America, Service Employees International Union, United Food and Commercial Workers, and USAction.
__________________
Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.
Will Rogers
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel or envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
Winston Churchill
And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country.
JFK
No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session. -- Mark Twain |
07-19-2009, 11:19 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Terry Yeah, I always go to YouTube or Twitter for my facts. I'd much rather my information come from more reliable, less partisan, sources. Mythbusting Canadian Health Care -- Part I | OurFuture.org
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Partisanship should be used to define issues;
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07-19-2009, 11:22 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by MaggieMae
Quote: Originally Posted by jreeves
Quote: Originally Posted by Care4all
If they are here legally and are paying taxes on all that they are earning while here jr, then I do not see a problem with them being able to be a part of this program.
So all the workers that travel over the Mexican border to work in the US shouldn't be covered under UHC, correct? Since, they don't pay US income taxes.... First off, quit referring to ANYTHING CURRENTLY BEING DEBATED IN WASHINGTON as "UHC" (Universal Health Care). This continues to be distorted in the hopes that you'll get the masses of the clueless to believe it.
Second, determining whether or not a resident of Mexico with a LEGAL work visa will probably be considered on an individual basis, with consideration giving to whether that person actually did pay into our tax system, which is frankly highly doubtful. Those are points that ultimately will need to be worked out, and not points that are major enough in context to determine the character of the broader bill. Considering advocates of UHC include the nearly 10 million non-Americans as among the 47 million Americans who are uninsured, yes I think they will be covered by this or any other version of UHC. So 10 million people's health care is not major enough?
__________________
Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.
Will Rogers
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel or envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
Winston Churchill
And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country.
JFK
No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session. -- Mark Twain |
07-19-2009, 11:23 AM
|  | Registered User Member #11841 | | Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Arizona
Posts: 4,398
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Quote: Originally Posted by MaggieMae
Quote: Originally Posted by Navy1960 (b) REQUIREMENTS FOR QUALIFIED HEALTH BENE2
FITS PLANS.— On or after the first day of Y1, a health
3 benefits plan shall not be a qualified health benefits plan
4 under this division unless the plan meets the applicable
5 requirements of the following subtitles for the type of plan
6 and plan year involved:
7 (1) Subtitle B (relating to affordable coverage).
8 (2) Subtitle C (relating to essential benefits).
9 (3) Subtitle D (relating to consumer protec10
tion). http://energycommerce.house.gov/Pres...0714/aahca.pdf
It is my intention to comb through this entire bill and point out the holes in it. Starting with this one, qualified plans, if a plan does not meet the qualifications then you will be cancelled, so much for the *If you like your insurance you can keep it* Are you planning to comb through all 16 health care proposals now before Congress? short answer would be yes! Maggie this one happens to be the working version that Waxman's committee is working on.
__________________
God grant me the courage not to give up what I think is right even though I think it is hopeless.
Chester W. Nimitz |
07-19-2009, 11:27 AM
| | Registered User Member #8708 | | Join Date: Feb 2008
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Rep Power: 90 | | LMAO... Sara Robinson | OurFuture.org
Sara has blogged on authoritarian and extremist movements at Orcinus since 2006; and is a founding member of Group News Blog, the successors to Steve Gilliard's original News Blog, where she still posts occasional lighter and more personal pieces. Her recent work has also appeared online at Firedoglake, DailyKos, OpenLeft, and Alternet; and in print at The Progressive Christian and Survival: The Journal of the International Institute of Strategic Studies. She is a consulting partner with the Cognitive Policy Works in Seattle, and a Fellow at the Campaign for America's Future.
__________________
Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.
Will Rogers
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel or envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
Winston Churchill
And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country.
JFK
No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session. -- Mark Twain |
07-19-2009, 11:29 AM
| | Registered User Member #11841 | | Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Arizona
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Quote: Originally Posted by MaggieMae
Quote: Originally Posted by Navy1960 I was beginning to wonder if anyone was ever going to notice this thread jr, as this thread from the actual bill. All the talk aside, about " you like your healthcare you can keep it" there is is in black and white for all to see. When a Govt. starts to mandate things and punish those who choose not to enroll it and clearly this bill intends to take away coverage on those people in plans it does not like. The intent is clear , and it's obvious that the sheer cost of doing this will bankrupt this nation. As for the Illegal Alein healthcare issue, what do you suppose the message will be to others wishing to enter the country illegally now? Navy, you are quoting ONLY from the House version. The Senate has yet to pass anything, even out of committee, after which the agreed-upon FINAL DRAFT will go to conference committee (between the House and the Senate) for a final version. Go here to see where it's at, right now.
Please stop SCARING people into believing this is a DONE DEAL. IT IS NOT!!!! Health Care for America NOW - Steps To Win
You mean like how cap and trade changed during the conference right? you mean I should wait and not inform people and let people listen to the propaganda comming from the President on this issue rather than the actual bill that is before the house? No thank you I would rather work from the actual legislation they are talking about rather than listen to the person that has made claims such as "unplolyment will not rise above 8.5% with the passage of this bill". If you find this scarry then good Maggie , you should find it scarry because it is. If you have not noticed our nation is deep in dept and with the advent of proposals like this , in an effort to socially norm everyone, some would take this nation down the same path that states like Ca. have already traveled. Perhaps you may one day like to receive a IOU from social security after you spent years paying into it, but personally I don't. So I will continue to post the REAL legislation and NOT the marketing version that the President would have people believe.
__________________
God grant me the courage not to give up what I think is right even though I think it is hopeless.
Chester W. Nimitz |
07-19-2009, 11:35 AM
| | Registered User Member #11841 | | Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Arizona
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Quote: Originally Posted by MaggieMae
Quote: Originally Posted by Care4all
Quote: Originally Posted by Navy1960 ‘‘(4) INDIVIDUALS RESIDING IN POSSESSIONS
12 OF THE UNITED STATES.—Any individual who is a
13 bona fide resident of any possession of the United
14 States (as determined under section 937(a)) for any
15 taxable year (and any qualifying child residing with
16 such individual) shall be treated for purposes of this
17 section as covered by acceptable coverage during
18 such taxable year.
In case you were wondering if Illegal Aliens were covered under this, the answer is yes. what is a possession of the united states described in 937a? are you really sure this relates to illegal aliens in the continental usa? Operative words. Illegal aliens will NOT be automatically covered. Maggie, I think I have pointed out where in the legislation that Illegal Immigrants will be covered under this bill. In fact in the bill EVERYONE is considered automatically covered if they do not opt for a plan and there is NO proof of residence required in it. See ( Medicare/Medicade Section) As I have pointed out to you and others on here many times when there is a LACK of legislation to the contrary it is up to the commissioner to make the decision on who is covered. Further, when there is no legislation to the contrary it is assumed in the affirmitive.
__________________
God grant me the courage not to give up what I think is right even though I think it is hopeless.
Chester W. Nimitz |
07-19-2009, 11:38 AM
| | Different perspectives Member #18998 | | Join Date: Apr 2009
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Quote: Originally Posted by jreeves
Quote: Originally Posted by MaggieMae
Quote: Originally Posted by Navy1960 (b) REQUIREMENTS FOR QUALIFIED HEALTH BENE2
FITS PLANS.— On or after the first day of Y1, a health
3 benefits plan shall not be a qualified health benefits plan
4 under this division unless the plan meets the applicable
5 requirements of the following subtitles for the type of plan
6 and plan year involved:
7 (1) Subtitle B (relating to affordable coverage).
8 (2) Subtitle C (relating to essential benefits).
9 (3) Subtitle D (relating to consumer protec10
tion). http://energycommerce.house.gov/Pres...0714/aahca.pdf
It is my intention to comb through this entire bill and point out the holes in it. Starting with this one, qualified plans, if a plan does not meet the qualifications then you will be cancelled, so much for the *If you like your insurance you can keep it* Are you planning to comb through all 16 health care proposals now before Congress? Maybe could you post all of them? I don't care, since they get red-lined and redrafted every passing minute. I won't care until something is finalized. We basically know what the issues are, the prime one being how to pay for any of it. Even the latest Republican plan will cost a trillion or so due to loss of revenue (tax cuts/credits) and offering primarily the same type of "reform" currently offered in the various other proposals at the same time.
__________________ ***
Partisanship should be used to define issues;
bipartisanship to resolve them.
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07-19-2009, 11:42 AM
| | Different perspectives Member #18998 | | Join Date: Apr 2009
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Quote: Originally Posted by jreeves
Quote: Originally Posted by MaggieMae
Quote: Originally Posted by Navy1960 I was beginning to wonder if anyone was ever going to notice this thread jr, as this thread from the actual bill. All the talk aside, about " you like your healthcare you can keep it" there is is in black and white for all to see. When a Govt. starts to mandate things and punish those who choose not to enroll it and clearly this bill intends to take away coverage on those people in plans it does not like. The intent is clear , and it's obvious that the sheer cost of doing this will bankrupt this nation. As for the Illegal Alein healthcare issue, what do you suppose the message will be to others wishing to enter the country illegally now? Navy, you are quoting ONLY from the House version. The Senate has yet to pass anything, even out of committee, after which the agreed-upon FINAL DRAFT will go to conference committee (between the House and the Senate) for a final version. Go here to see where it's at, right now.
Please stop SCARING people into believing this is a DONE DEAL. IT IS NOT!!!! Health Care for America NOW - Steps To Win Navy is actually posting words from the original House bill, yet you post this trash, how becoming of you....
A little about Health Care for America Now(then you wonder why people question your credibility)... Profile: Health Care for America Now : NPR
Health Care for America Now is a coalition of prominent labor unions and liberal advocacy groups pushing for affordable health care and stricter regulation of the health insurance industry.
Funders: The coalition's steering committee members commit at least $500,000 to the effort. Members include: ACORN, AFSCME, Americans United for Change, Campaign for America's Future, Center for American Progress Action Fund, MoveOn.org, National Council of La Raza, National Education Association, Planned Parenthood Federation of America, Service Employees International Union, United Food and Commercial Workers, and USAction. Yo, genius, the House of Representatives does not ENACT LAW. What Navy is quoting from is THEIR VERSION of what will be torn apart by the Senate, as it already is even as we speak, then returned to conferences between the two chambers. Try learning some basic lessons in civics for a change instead of bellowing your obvious lack of knowledge. The link was not posted for partisan purposes, but to TEACH YOU the process, asshole.
__________________ ***
Partisanship should be used to define issues;
bipartisanship to resolve them.
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