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Is This What The US Wants? Really?

This is a discussion on Is This What The US Wants? Really? within the Healthcare/Insurance/Govt Healthcare forums, part of the US Discussion category; There are many links at site. Let that be the beginning of convo: The Sadistic Brutality of England’s Government-Run Healthcare « International Liberty The Sadistic ...


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Old 12-02-2012, 01:31 AM
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Is This What The US Wants? Really?

There are many links at site. Let that be the beginning of convo:

The Sadistic Brutality of England’s Government-Run Healthcare « International Liberty

Quote:
The Sadistic Brutality of England’s Government-Run Healthcare

December 1, 2012 by Dan Mitchell

I’m not easily grossed out or nauseated. Heck, I’m on email lists for a half-dozen softball teams and you can only imagine the strange/filthy/nasty things that guys send to each other.

But I read a story about the death panels in the United Kingdom that left me discombobulated. I can’t even begin to describe how I feel.

Here’s the intro of a disturbing report in the Daily Mail.

Sick children are being discharged from NHS hospitals to die at home or in hospices on controversial ‘death pathways’. Until now, end of life regime the Liverpool Care Pathway was thought to have involved only elderly and terminally-ill adults. But the Mail can reveal the practice of withdrawing food and fluid by tube is being used on young patients as well as severely disabled newborn babies.

And here are some of the horrifying details. Read at your own risk.

One doctor has admitted starving and dehydrating ten babies to death in the neonatal unit of one hospital alone. Writing in a leading medical journal, the physician revealed the process can take an average of ten days during which a baby becomes ‘smaller and shrunken’. The LCP – on which 130,000 elderly and terminally-ill adult patients die each year – is now the subject of an independent inquiry ordered by ministers. …Earlier this month, an un-named doctor wrote of the agony of watching the protracted deaths of babies. …‘I know, as they cannot, the unique horror of witnessing a child become smaller and shrunken, as the only route out of a life that has become excruciating to the patient or to the parents who love their baby.’ Grim Reaper with Kid…Bernadette Lloyd, a hospice paediatric nurse, has written to the Cabinet Office and the Department of Health to criticise the use of death pathways for children. She said: ‘The parents feel coerced, at a very traumatic time, into agreeing that this is correct for their child whom they are told by doctors has only has a few days to live. It is very difficult to predict death. I have seen a “reasonable” number of children recover after being taken off the pathway. …‘I have also seen children die in terrible thirst because fluids are withdrawn from them until they die. ‘I witnessed a 14 year-old boy with cancer die with his tongue stuck to the roof of his mouth when doctors refused to give him liquids by tube. His death was agonising for him, and for us nurses to watch. This is euthanasia by the backdoor.’

My first reaction is to hope that this story is wildly wrong, filled with exaggerations and lies.

My second reaction (and this is why I got so agitated) is to imagine what it must be like for the parents. They get talked into letting their kids die, which must be agonizing, and then (assuming they stick around) they have to watch them slowly starve to death or die of thirst. Wouldn’t it be better to just give your kid a fatal injection? Setting aside the moral issue of deciding to let a kid die because he’s disabled or something like that, doesn’t simple decency mean that death should be painless rather than agonizing?

My final reaction is to wonder what Paul Krugman would say about this scandalous neglect and mistreatment. During the Obamacare debate, he told us we could ignore stories about what was happening across the ocean, writing that “In Britain, the government itself runs the hospitals and employs the doctors. We’ve all heard scare stories about how that works in practice; these stories are false.” So I guess starving children don’t qualify as a scare story.

P.S. If you want more horror stories about government-run healthcare in the United Kingdom click here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here.
t
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:42 AM
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There are many links at site. Let that be the beginning of convo:

The Sadistic Brutality of England’s Government-Run Healthcare « International Liberty

Quote:
The Sadistic Brutality of England’s Government-Run Healthcare

December 1, 2012 by Dan Mitchell

I’m not easily grossed out or nauseated. Heck, I’m on email lists for a half-dozen softball teams and you can only imagine the strange/filthy/nasty things that guys send to each other.

But I read a story about the death panels in the United Kingdom that left me discombobulated. I can’t even begin to describe how I feel.

Here’s the intro of a disturbing report in the Daily Mail.

Sick children are being discharged from NHS hospitals to die at home or in hospices on controversial ‘death pathways’. Until now, end of life regime the Liverpool Care Pathway was thought to have involved only elderly and terminally-ill adults. But the Mail can reveal the practice of withdrawing food and fluid by tube is being used on young patients as well as severely disabled newborn babies.

And here are some of the horrifying details. Read at your own risk.

One doctor has admitted starving and dehydrating ten babies to death in the neonatal unit of one hospital alone. Writing in a leading medical journal, the physician revealed the process can take an average of ten days during which a baby becomes ‘smaller and shrunken’. The LCP – on which 130,000 elderly and terminally-ill adult patients die each year – is now the subject of an independent inquiry ordered by ministers. …Earlier this month, an un-named doctor wrote of the agony of watching the protracted deaths of babies. …‘I know, as they cannot, the unique horror of witnessing a child become smaller and shrunken, as the only route out of a life that has become excruciating to the patient or to the parents who love their baby.’ Grim Reaper with Kid…Bernadette Lloyd, a hospice paediatric nurse, has written to the Cabinet Office and the Department of Health to criticise the use of death pathways for children. She said: ‘The parents feel coerced, at a very traumatic time, into agreeing that this is correct for their child whom they are told by doctors has only has a few days to live. It is very difficult to predict death. I have seen a “reasonable” number of children recover after being taken off the pathway. …‘I have also seen children die in terrible thirst because fluids are withdrawn from them until they die. ‘I witnessed a 14 year-old boy with cancer die with his tongue stuck to the roof of his mouth when doctors refused to give him liquids by tube. His death was agonising for him, and for us nurses to watch. This is euthanasia by the backdoor.’

My first reaction is to hope that this story is wildly wrong, filled with exaggerations and lies.

My second reaction (and this is why I got so agitated) is to imagine what it must be like for the parents. They get talked into letting their kids die, which must be agonizing, and then (assuming they stick around) they have to watch them slowly starve to death or die of thirst. Wouldn’t it be better to just give your kid a fatal injection? Setting aside the moral issue of deciding to let a kid die because he’s disabled or something like that, doesn’t simple decency mean that death should be painless rather than agonizing?

My final reaction is to wonder what Paul Krugman would say about this scandalous neglect and mistreatment. During the Obamacare debate, he told us we could ignore stories about what was happening across the ocean, writing that “In Britain, the government itself runs the hospitals and employs the doctors. We’ve all heard scare stories about how that works in practice; these stories are false.” So I guess starving children don’t qualify as a scare story.

P.S. If you want more horror stories about government-run healthcare in the United Kingdom click here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here.
t
The process is called the "Liverpool Pathways". It's been a hard go but I have a lot of data that I am about to send to an important political figure who has been on this from the get go on this side of the pond. .

Only a few more days dear heart, only a few more days. The scandal will go crazy over the "Pathways".

For those that don't understand Pathway is the nice way of saying we choose to "off" you in Britain in your health care system.
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:59 AM
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There is already a thread on this, Annie.
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Old 12-02-2012, 02:08 AM
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There is already a thread on this, Annie.
Ok, can you link it?
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Old 12-02-2012, 02:18 AM
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There are many links at site. Let that be the beginning of convo:

The Sadistic Brutality of England’s Government-Run Healthcare « International Liberty

Quote:
The Sadistic Brutality of England’s Government-Run Healthcare

December 1, 2012 by Dan Mitchell

I’m not easily grossed out or nauseated. Heck, I’m on email lists for a half-dozen softball teams and you can only imagine the strange/filthy/nasty things that guys send to each other.

But I read a story about the death panels in the United Kingdom that left me discombobulated. I can’t even begin to describe how I feel.

Here’s the intro of a disturbing report in the Daily Mail.

Sick children are being discharged from NHS hospitals to die at home or in hospices on controversial ‘death pathways’. Until now, end of life regime the Liverpool Care Pathway was thought to have involved only elderly and terminally-ill adults. But the Mail can reveal the practice of withdrawing food and fluid by tube is being used on young patients as well as severely disabled newborn babies.

And here are some of the horrifying details. Read at your own risk.

One doctor has admitted starving and dehydrating ten babies to death in the neonatal unit of one hospital alone. Writing in a leading medical journal, the physician revealed the process can take an average of ten days during which a baby becomes ‘smaller and shrunken’. The LCP – on which 130,000 elderly and terminally-ill adult patients die each year – is now the subject of an independent inquiry ordered by ministers. …Earlier this month, an un-named doctor wrote of the agony of watching the protracted deaths of babies. …‘I know, as they cannot, the unique horror of witnessing a child become smaller and shrunken, as the only route out of a life that has become excruciating to the patient or to the parents who love their baby.’ Grim Reaper with Kid…Bernadette Lloyd, a hospice paediatric nurse, has written to the Cabinet Office and the Department of Health to criticise the use of death pathways for children. She said: ‘The parents feel coerced, at a very traumatic time, into agreeing that this is correct for their child whom they are told by doctors has only has a few days to live. It is very difficult to predict death. I have seen a “reasonable” number of children recover after being taken off the pathway. …‘I have also seen children die in terrible thirst because fluids are withdrawn from them until they die. ‘I witnessed a 14 year-old boy with cancer die with his tongue stuck to the roof of his mouth when doctors refused to give him liquids by tube. His death was agonising for him, and for us nurses to watch. This is euthanasia by the backdoor.’

My first reaction is to hope that this story is wildly wrong, filled with exaggerations and lies.

My second reaction (and this is why I got so agitated) is to imagine what it must be like for the parents. They get talked into letting their kids die, which must be agonizing, and then (assuming they stick around) they have to watch them slowly starve to death or die of thirst. Wouldn’t it be better to just give your kid a fatal injection? Setting aside the moral issue of deciding to let a kid die because he’s disabled or something like that, doesn’t simple decency mean that death should be painless rather than agonizing?

My final reaction is to wonder what Paul Krugman would say about this scandalous neglect and mistreatment. During the Obamacare debate, he told us we could ignore stories about what was happening across the ocean, writing that “In Britain, the government itself runs the hospitals and employs the doctors. We’ve all heard scare stories about how that works in practice; these stories are false.” So I guess starving children don’t qualify as a scare story.

P.S. If you want more horror stories about government-run healthcare in the United Kingdom click here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here.
t
Nice....................quoting a British blog to tell us what the lawmakers in the U.S. are going to do.

Stuck in a bubble much?
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Old 12-02-2012, 02:47 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ABikerSailor Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see images.
There are many links at site. Let that be the beginning of convo:

The Sadistic Brutality of England’s Government-Run Healthcare « International Liberty

Quote:
The Sadistic Brutality of England’s Government-Run Healthcare

December 1, 2012 by Dan Mitchell

I’m not easily grossed out or nauseated. Heck, I’m on email lists for a half-dozen softball teams and you can only imagine the strange/filthy/nasty things that guys send to each other.

But I read a story about the death panels in the United Kingdom that left me discombobulated. I can’t even begin to describe how I feel.

Here’s the intro of a disturbing report in the Daily Mail.

Sick children are being discharged from NHS hospitals to die at home or in hospices on controversial ‘death pathways’. Until now, end of life regime the Liverpool Care Pathway was thought to have involved only elderly and terminally-ill adults. But the Mail can reveal the practice of withdrawing food and fluid by tube is being used on young patients as well as severely disabled newborn babies.

And here are some of the horrifying details. Read at your own risk.

One doctor has admitted starving and dehydrating ten babies to death in the neonatal unit of one hospital alone. Writing in a leading medical journal, the physician revealed the process can take an average of ten days during which a baby becomes ‘smaller and shrunken’. The LCP – on which 130,000 elderly and terminally-ill adult patients die each year – is now the subject of an independent inquiry ordered by ministers. …Earlier this month, an un-named doctor wrote of the agony of watching the protracted deaths of babies. …‘I know, as they cannot, the unique horror of witnessing a child become smaller and shrunken, as the only route out of a life that has become excruciating to the patient or to the parents who love their baby.’ Grim Reaper with Kid…Bernadette Lloyd, a hospice paediatric nurse, has written to the Cabinet Office and the Department of Health to criticise the use of death pathways for children. She said: ‘The parents feel coerced, at a very traumatic time, into agreeing that this is correct for their child whom they are told by doctors has only has a few days to live. It is very difficult to predict death. I have seen a “reasonable” number of children recover after being taken off the pathway. …‘I have also seen children die in terrible thirst because fluids are withdrawn from them until they die. ‘I witnessed a 14 year-old boy with cancer die with his tongue stuck to the roof of his mouth when doctors refused to give him liquids by tube. His death was agonising for him, and for us nurses to watch. This is euthanasia by the backdoor.’

My first reaction is to hope that this story is wildly wrong, filled with exaggerations and lies.

My second reaction (and this is why I got so agitated) is to imagine what it must be like for the parents. They get talked into letting their kids die, which must be agonizing, and then (assuming they stick around) they have to watch them slowly starve to death or die of thirst. Wouldn’t it be better to just give your kid a fatal injection? Setting aside the moral issue of deciding to let a kid die because he’s disabled or something like that, doesn’t simple decency mean that death should be painless rather than agonizing?

My final reaction is to wonder what Paul Krugman would say about this scandalous neglect and mistreatment. During the Obamacare debate, he told us we could ignore stories about what was happening across the ocean, writing that “In Britain, the government itself runs the hospitals and employs the doctors. We’ve all heard scare stories about how that works in practice; these stories are false.” So I guess starving children don’t qualify as a scare story.

P.S. If you want more horror stories about government-run healthcare in the United Kingdom click here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here.
t
Nice....................quoting a British blog to tell us what the lawmakers in the U.S. are going to do.

Stuck in a bubble much?
yet the model Obama is cloning is that of Europe. Go figure.
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:58 AM
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yet the model Obama is cloning is that of Europe. Go figure.
The model for Obama's health care plan was Mitt Romney's program in Massachusetts, not any country in Europe.

The ACA is not anything like health care in Europe. US health care is unique in that it's pretty much run by your insurance companies and big pharma. It's expensive, and really, it's not worth it. Other countries get much more for their money on a per capita basis, and longer life expectancy and lower infant mortality rates than the US.

46% of all personal bankruptcies in the US are related to unpaid medical expenses, and a lot of those people had insurance, but their bills went over the caps. God help you if you have a long-term catastrophic illness because you insurance company won't.

And the lies that are spread about health care in other countries are just unreal. The government doesn't pick our doctors, we do. There are no death panels. There are no long waits for treatment, except for hip replacements and that's because of the shortage of orthopedic surgeons.

Of course the medical lobby doesn't want you to know how much better off you'd be with Canadian health care. So they tell you how horrible it is, how long the waits are, and how Canadians come to the US for treatment. Yes, they do sometimes, but not that often. And sometimes Americans come to Canada for treatment. Because it's just as good and it's cheaper.

You would have been so much better off with a single payer system, but I can see how that wouldn't have been possible. It's just too bad the government option was taken off the table.
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:15 AM
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Yes, it is what the US really wants. An essential part of government health care is the elimination of the sick who require expensive treatment.

For every person touting the benefits of government controlled health care, there are 100 or more telling the truth. Everyone is lying except the propagandist.

The reason why Romney's health care plan works in Massachusetts is because it was narrowly tailored to benefit the people of Massachusetts. That doesn't mean the same plan would work in New Mexico.

There is hope, if China can start moving towards privatization of medical care, we can someday undo what obama has done too.
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:42 AM
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The reason why Romney's health care plan works in Massachusetts is because it was narrowly tailored to benefit the people of Massachusetts.
Meaning what?
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:58 AM
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Annie
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yet the model Obama is cloning is that of Europe. Go figure.
Please list the ways in which ACA is a clone of England/Europe. Your link certainly does not indicate that. The rw's just love this kind of brainless, dog whistle crap but not one of them can PROVE their opinion has any basis in fact.
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:06 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Greenbeard Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see images.
The reason why Romney's health care plan works in Massachusetts is because it was narrowly tailored to benefit the people of Massachusetts.
Meaning what?
Meaning that it was never designed to work everywhere.
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:10 AM
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Meaning that it was never designed to work everywhere.
Maybe not everywhere in the universe, but everywhere in the United States, sure.
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:23 AM
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The funny thing is that Republicans knew it would work and were in favor of it when Robert Dole first proposed it. And, Hawaii is very happy with it.

Why not the rest of the country?

Seriously, what is the difference between Mass, Hawaii, the rest of the country? EXACTLY what is this "narrow tailoring"?
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Pootarians: a small but vocal group of America-haters who side with Vladimir Putin over their own country.
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." ~~ John Stuart Mill
Advice to right wingers: Memorize the first five words of the First Amendment.
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