US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Affordable Care Act saving taxpayer money at record pace

This is a discussion on Affordable Care Act saving taxpayer money at record pace within the Healthcare/Insurance/Govt Healthcare forums, part of the US Discussion category; Quote: Originally Posted by Bfgrn Quote: Originally Posted by Quantum Windbag Quote: Originally Posted by Bfgrn Oh, we agree you deduced? How so? So, you ...


Go Back   US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum > US Discussion > Healthcare/Insurance/Govt Healthcare

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #121 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2012, 01:07 PM
Quantum Windbag's Avatar
Thou art God.
Member #23420
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 52,929
Thanks: 10,893
Thanked 12,391 Times in 8,954 Posts
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 8479
Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow
Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow
Quote: Originally Posted by Bfgrn View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Quantum Windbag View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Bfgrn View Post

Oh, we agree you deduced? How so? So, you want the government to turn health care back over to Wall Street, so stockholders can put their profits before patients, who are STAKEholders in our health care system. The 'market' has/had TOO much control withOUT government regulation and oversight.

Now, do we still agree???
Hey, genius, please explain why you think market means Wall Street. Is it because you still do not understand the difference between crony capitalism and the free market?
It's because you didn't watch the fucking interview with a 15 year executive with CIGNA who identified WALL STREET. Instead you use idiotic catch phrases like 'crony capitalism' which doesn't apply to the problem. It all has to do with your dogmatic ignorance. You have found 'religion'...you're are a Marketist. No different than a Marxist.

Here is an apology by the same CIGNA executive VP. READ IT, and educate yourself. Shed your fucking ignorance. Become a thinking person, not a fucking parrot!

Wendell Potter: Rally Against Wall Street's Health Care Takeover


I would like to begin by apologizing to all of you for the role I played 15 years ago in cheating you out of a reformed health care system. Had it not been for greedy insurance companies and other special interests, and their army of lobbyists and spin-doctors like I used to be, we wouldn't be here today.

I'm ashamed that I let myself get caught up in deceitful and dishonest PR campaigns that worked so well, hundreds of thousands of our citizens have died, and millions of others have lost their homes and been forced into bankruptcy, so that a very few corporate executives and their Wall Street masters could become obscenely rich.

But it was only during the last few years of my career that I came to realize the full scope of the harm my colleagues and I had caused, and the lengths that insurance companies will go to increase their profits at the expense of working families.

As I told the Senate Commerce Committee two months ago, the higher up the corporate ladder I climbed, the more I could see how insurance companies confuse their customers and dump the sick – all so they can satisfy those Wall Street masters.

I described for the senators how insurers make promises they have no intention of keeping, how they flout regulations designed to protect consumers, and how they make it nearly impossible to understand -- or even to obtain -- information consumers need.

I also told the Committee how the industry has conducted duplicitous and well-financed PR and lobbying campaigns every time Congress has tried to reform our health care system -- and how its current behind-scenes-efforts may well shape reform in a way that benefits Wall Street far more than average Americans.

I noted that, just as the industry did 15 years ago when it led the effort to kill the Clinton reform plan, it is using shills and front groups to spread lies and disinformation to scare Americans away from the very reform that would benefit them most.

Make no mistake, the industry, despite its public assurances to be good-faith partners with the President and Congress, has been at work for years laying the groundwork for devious and often sinister campaigns to manipulate public opinion.

The industry goes to great lengths to keep its involvement in these campaigns hidden from public view. But I know from having served on many trade group committees that industry leaders are always full partners in developing strategies to derail any reform that might interfere with their ability to increase their companies' profits.
Let me try this one more time, Wall Street and Congress are in bed together. Pointing at Wall Street as the problem is no different tan pointing at Congress as the problem. Wall Street is the ultimate symbol of crony capitalism, not the ultimate symbol of the free market. If the government did not support the efforts of the insurance industry to get away with all the things you keep complaining about the undustry would not get away with them.

In other words, you are the problem because you are one of the idiots that keep saying that the problem is something that does not exist and then you demand that the actual problem step in and fix the problem.
__________________
I will accept the rules that you feel necessary to your freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know, the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything -- you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
USMessageBoard.com is the premier Political Forum Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see these ads. Please Register - It's Free!
  #122 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2012, 01:32 PM
Registered User
Member #19187
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 7,437
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,051 Times in 852 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 55
LilOlLady kicks locomotives off the tracks LilOlLady kicks locomotives off the tracks LilOlLady kicks locomotives off the tracks LilOlLady kicks locomotives off the tracks LilOlLady kicks locomotives off the tracks LilOlLady kicks locomotives off the tracks LilOlLady kicks locomotives off the tracks
[quote=Quantum Windbag;4885958][quote=Star;4881742]
Quote: Originally Posted by Quantum Windbag View Post



Actually, I think you are confusing access to health care with health care. I would rather have a system that allows people to pay for extra coverage they want than one that only gives extra coverage to those the state approves of. One is about freedom, the other is about control.
You don't seem to realize that most Americans cannot pay for what they need and what they want is a luxury only the elite can afford.

Last edited by LilOlLady; 03-04-2012 at 01:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #123 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2012, 01:42 PM
Quantum Windbag's Avatar
Thou art God.
Member #23420
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 52,929
Thanks: 10,893
Thanked 12,391 Times in 8,954 Posts
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 8479
Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow
Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow
Quote: Originally Posted by LilOlLady View Post
You don't seem to realize that most Americans cannot pay for what they need and what they want is a luxury only the elite can afford.
You don't seem to realize that most people cannot afford a Rolls Royce either. Should the government force everyone to buy Kia's because some people can't afford a Rolls?
__________________
I will accept the rules that you feel necessary to your freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know, the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything -- you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him.
Reply With Quote
  #124 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2012, 02:44 PM
Bfgrn's Avatar
Registered User
Member #19018
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 13,653
Thanks: 1,638
Thanked 3,071 Times in 2,340 Posts
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 1472
Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court
Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court
Quote: Originally Posted by Quantum Windbag View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Bfgrn View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Quantum Windbag View Post

Hey, genius, please explain why you think market means Wall Street. Is it because you still do not understand the difference between crony capitalism and the free market?
It's because you didn't watch the fucking interview with a 15 year executive with CIGNA who identified WALL STREET. Instead you use idiotic catch phrases like 'crony capitalism' which doesn't apply to the problem. It all has to do with your dogmatic ignorance. You have found 'religion'...you're are a Marketist. No different than a Marxist.

Here is an apology by the same CIGNA executive VP. READ IT, and educate yourself. Shed your fucking ignorance. Become a thinking person, not a fucking parrot!

Wendell Potter: Rally Against Wall Street's Health Care Takeover


I would like to begin by apologizing to all of you for the role I played 15 years ago in cheating you out of a reformed health care system. Had it not been for greedy insurance companies and other special interests, and their army of lobbyists and spin-doctors like I used to be, we wouldn't be here today.

I'm ashamed that I let myself get caught up in deceitful and dishonest PR campaigns that worked so well, hundreds of thousands of our citizens have died, and millions of others have lost their homes and been forced into bankruptcy, so that a very few corporate executives and their Wall Street masters could become obscenely rich.

But it was only during the last few years of my career that I came to realize the full scope of the harm my colleagues and I had caused, and the lengths that insurance companies will go to increase their profits at the expense of working families.

As I told the Senate Commerce Committee two months ago, the higher up the corporate ladder I climbed, the more I could see how insurance companies confuse their customers and dump the sick – all so they can satisfy those Wall Street masters.

I described for the senators how insurers make promises they have no intention of keeping, how they flout regulations designed to protect consumers, and how they make it nearly impossible to understand -- or even to obtain -- information consumers need.

I also told the Committee how the industry has conducted duplicitous and well-financed PR and lobbying campaigns every time Congress has tried to reform our health care system -- and how its current behind-scenes-efforts may well shape reform in a way that benefits Wall Street far more than average Americans.

I noted that, just as the industry did 15 years ago when it led the effort to kill the Clinton reform plan, it is using shills and front groups to spread lies and disinformation to scare Americans away from the very reform that would benefit them most.

Make no mistake, the industry, despite its public assurances to be good-faith partners with the President and Congress, has been at work for years laying the groundwork for devious and often sinister campaigns to manipulate public opinion.

The industry goes to great lengths to keep its involvement in these campaigns hidden from public view. But I know from having served on many trade group committees that industry leaders are always full partners in developing strategies to derail any reform that might interfere with their ability to increase their companies' profits.
Let me try this one more time, Wall Street and Congress are in bed together. Pointing at Wall Street as the problem is no different tan pointing at Congress as the problem. Wall Street is the ultimate symbol of crony capitalism, not the ultimate symbol of the free market. If the government did not support the efforts of the insurance industry to get away with all the things you keep complaining about the undustry would not get away with them.

In other words, you are the problem because you are one of the idiots that keep saying that the problem is something that does not exist and then you demand that the actual problem step in and fix the problem.
And you're the idiot whose solution is the let Wall Street run free of any regulations...then SOMEHOW, they will become good boys and girls.

The core of the problem is health care will never fit a 'free market' solution. Anyone with an adult brain who understands the basics of a market based transaction can see that the incentives, stakes and leverage are fatally flawed...LITERALLY.
__________________
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
John Kenneth Galbraith
Reply With Quote
  #125 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2012, 03:32 PM
Quantum Windbag's Avatar
Thou art God.
Member #23420
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 52,929
Thanks: 10,893
Thanked 12,391 Times in 8,954 Posts
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 8479
Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow
Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow Quantum Windbag is cooler than the underside of a pillow
Quote: Originally Posted by Bfgrn View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Quantum Windbag View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Bfgrn View Post

It's because you didn't watch the fucking interview with a 15 year executive with CIGNA who identified WALL STREET. Instead you use idiotic catch phrases like 'crony capitalism' which doesn't apply to the problem. It all has to do with your dogmatic ignorance. You have found 'religion'...you're are a Marketist. No different than a Marxist.

Here is an apology by the same CIGNA executive VP. READ IT, and educate yourself. Shed your fucking ignorance. Become a thinking person, not a fucking parrot!

Wendell Potter: Rally Against Wall Street's Health Care Takeover


I would like to begin by apologizing to all of you for the role I played 15 years ago in cheating you out of a reformed health care system. Had it not been for greedy insurance companies and other special interests, and their army of lobbyists and spin-doctors like I used to be, we wouldn't be here today.

I'm ashamed that I let myself get caught up in deceitful and dishonest PR campaigns that worked so well, hundreds of thousands of our citizens have died, and millions of others have lost their homes and been forced into bankruptcy, so that a very few corporate executives and their Wall Street masters could become obscenely rich.

But it was only during the last few years of my career that I came to realize the full scope of the harm my colleagues and I had caused, and the lengths that insurance companies will go to increase their profits at the expense of working families.

As I told the Senate Commerce Committee two months ago, the higher up the corporate ladder I climbed, the more I could see how insurance companies confuse their customers and dump the sick – all so they can satisfy those Wall Street masters.

I described for the senators how insurers make promises they have no intention of keeping, how they flout regulations designed to protect consumers, and how they make it nearly impossible to understand -- or even to obtain -- information consumers need.

I also told the Committee how the industry has conducted duplicitous and well-financed PR and lobbying campaigns every time Congress has tried to reform our health care system -- and how its current behind-scenes-efforts may well shape reform in a way that benefits Wall Street far more than average Americans.

I noted that, just as the industry did 15 years ago when it led the effort to kill the Clinton reform plan, it is using shills and front groups to spread lies and disinformation to scare Americans away from the very reform that would benefit them most.

Make no mistake, the industry, despite its public assurances to be good-faith partners with the President and Congress, has been at work for years laying the groundwork for devious and often sinister campaigns to manipulate public opinion.

The industry goes to great lengths to keep its involvement in these campaigns hidden from public view. But I know from having served on many trade group committees that industry leaders are always full partners in developing strategies to derail any reform that might interfere with their ability to increase their companies' profits.
Let me try this one more time, Wall Street and Congress are in bed together. Pointing at Wall Street as the problem is no different tan pointing at Congress as the problem. Wall Street is the ultimate symbol of crony capitalism, not the ultimate symbol of the free market. If the government did not support the efforts of the insurance industry to get away with all the things you keep complaining about the undustry would not get away with them.

In other words, you are the problem because you are one of the idiots that keep saying that the problem is something that does not exist and then you demand that the actual problem step in and fix the problem.
And you're the idiot whose solution is the let Wall Street run free of any regulations...then SOMEHOW, they will become good boys and girls.

The core of the problem is health care will never fit a 'free market' solution. Anyone with an adult brain who understands the basics of a market based transaction can see that the incentives, stakes and leverage are fatally flawed...LITERALLY.
I have no problem with regulations, as long as they are not designed to keep other companies from competing with the ones that already exist.

Really? Why would I want Wall Street not to have to answer to rules? I just don't
__________________
I will accept the rules that you feel necessary to your freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know, the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything -- you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him.
Reply With Quote
  #126 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2012, 12:06 PM
usmcstinger's Avatar
Registered User
Member #34694
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 795
Thanks: 1
Thanked 254 Times in 165 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 257
usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness
[QUOTE=Bfgrn;4810696]Provisions in the Affordable Care Act make it one of the toughest anti-fraud laws in history. The results? Another record setting year.

[BFeds recover $4.1B in h]ealth care fraud in 2011[/B]

Federal authorities say they recovered $last year, a record high which officials on Monday credited to new tools for cracking down on deceitful Medicare claims.

The recovered funds are up roughly 50 percent from 2009. Attorney General Eric Holder and Department of Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius were expected to make the announcement at a news conference Tuesday.


more

Nothing turns out to be so oppressive and unjust as a feeble government.
Edmund Burke[/QUOTE

The 4.1 billion in health care fraud is not the important news.

The Increased Cost of the AHA is the real news.

The just-released( by the CBO) 2012 projection tags the gross cost at $1.76 trillion through 2022—nearly twice the original costt.d
I'm Shocked! ObamaCare Costs More Than Promised - Forbes

"This report also presents estimates through fiscal year 2022, because the baseline projection period now extends through that additional year. The ACA’s provisions related to insurance coverage are now projected to have a net cost of $1,252 billion over the 2012-2022 period; that amount represents a [B]gross cost to the federal government of $1,762 billion, offset in part by $510 billion in receipts and other budgetary effects (primarily revenues from penalties and other sources)."http://www.cbo.gov/publication/43080

If you do not understand this information, then you must be living in a delusional world of your own design.
__________________
"No Marine Left Behind" Marines will intentionally risk their own safety to aid wounded comrades, or to retrieve the remains of fallen comrades.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to usmcstinger For This Useful Post:
daveman (03-18-2012), Full-Auto (03-18-2012)
  #127 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2012, 12:26 PM
Bfgrn's Avatar
Registered User
Member #19018
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 13,653
Thanks: 1,638
Thanked 3,071 Times in 2,340 Posts
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 1472
Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court
Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court
[quote=usmcstinger;4978757]
Quote: Originally Posted by Bfgrn View Post
Provisions in the Affordable Care Act make it one of the toughest anti-fraud laws in history. The results? Another record setting year.

[BFeds recover $4.1B in h]ealth care fraud in 2011[/B]

Federal authorities say they recovered $last year, a record high which officials on Monday credited to new tools for cracking down on deceitful Medicare claims.

The recovered funds are up roughly 50 percent from 2009. Attorney General Eric Holder and Department of Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius were expected to make the announcement at a news conference Tuesday.


more

Nothing turns out to be so oppressive and unjust as a feeble government.
Edmund Burke[/QUOTE

The 4.1 billion in health care fraud is not the important news.

The Increased Cost of the AHA is the real news.

The just-released( by the CBO) 2012 projection tags the gross cost at $1.76 trillion through 2022—nearly twice the original costt.d
I'm Shocked! ObamaCare Costs More Than Promised - Forbes

"This report also presents estimates through fiscal year 2022, because the baseline projection period now extends through that additional year. The ACA’s provisions related to insurance coverage are now projected to have a net cost of $1,252 billion over the 2012-2022 period; that amount represents a [B]gross cost to the federal government of $1,762 billion, offset in part by $510 billion in receipts and other budgetary effects (primarily revenues from penalties and other sources)."http://www.cbo.gov/publication/43080

If you do not understand this information, then you must be living in a delusional world of your own design.
SO...you right wing turds who tried to hand Obama his Waterloo wanted to do NOTHING.


The Cost of Doing Nothing
Why the Cost of Failing to Fix Our Health System Is Greater than the Cost of Reform

2008

The U.S. health care system is in crisis. Health care costs too much; we often get too little in exchange for our health care dollar; and tens of millions of Americans are uninsured.

Our economy loses hundreds of billions of dollars every year because of the diminished health and shorter lifespan of the uninsured. Rising health care costs undermine the ability of U.S. firms to compete internationally, threaten the stability of American jobs, and place increasing strain on local, state, and federal budgets. As health care costs continue to rise faster than wages, health insurance becomes more and more unaffordable for more and more American families every day.

Yet, the recent financial services meltdown has led some people to suggest that we cannot afford health reform and that fixing our broken health care system will have to wait once again. But waiting comes with a price. The crisis worsens every day that we do not act. Premiums will continue to rise; Americans will continue to pay more for less-generous health coverage; and fewer employers will offer health insurance to their workers.

We must reform our struggling health system not in spite of our economic crisis, but rather because of the impact health care has on the American economy. The economic and social impact of inaction is high and it will only rise over time.

Economic Cost

The economic cost of failing to fix our broken health care system is greater than the upfront expense of comprehensive health reform. In 2006, our economy lost as much as $200 billion because of the poor health and shorter lifespan of the uninsured. This is by most estimates as much as, if not greater than, the public costs of ensuring all Americans have quality, affordable, health coverage. The economies in California, Texas, and Florida suffer most from productivity loses stemming from the uninsured. Yet, Delaware’s economy loses more per uninsured person -- over $6,800 per uninsured resident.

Affordability

As health care costs continue to grow faster than wages, health insurance will become more and more unaffordable for more and more American families every day. The financial burdens associated with health care and health insurance will only get worse over time without action.The cost of the average employer-sponsored health insurance plan (ESI) for a family will reach $24,000 in 2016. This represents an 84 percent increase over 2008 premium levels. Under this scenario, we estimate that at least half of American households will need to spend more than 45 percent of their income to buy health insurance.

More
__________________
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
John Kenneth Galbraith
Reply With Quote
  #128 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2012, 12:33 PM
usmcstinger's Avatar
Registered User
Member #34694
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 795
Thanks: 1
Thanked 254 Times in 165 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 257
usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness
The Liberals aka Marxists only believe what makes sense in the delusional world they live in.
__________________
"No Marine Left Behind" Marines will intentionally risk their own safety to aid wounded comrades, or to retrieve the remains of fallen comrades.
Reply With Quote
  #129 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2012, 01:29 PM
Bfgrn's Avatar
Registered User
Member #19018
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 13,653
Thanks: 1,638
Thanked 3,071 Times in 2,340 Posts
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 1472
Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court
Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court Bfgrn could be on the Supreme Court
Quote: Originally Posted by usmcstinger View Post
The Liberals aka Marxists only believe what makes sense in the delusional world they live in.
So, you are obtuse to what Republicans did? Why am I not surprised?? I will let George W. Bush's former speechwriter explain it to you. BTW, he was fired by the right wing think tank the American Enterprise Institute for telling the truth.

Freedom of speech on the right: the freedom to parrot the propaganda you're being fed, OR ELSE.

Waterloo | FrumForum

At the beginning of this process we made a strategic decision: unlike, say, Democrats in 2001 when President Bush proposed his first tax cut, we would make no deal with the administration. No negotiations, no compromise, nothing. We were going for all the marbles. This would be Obama’s Waterloo – just as healthcare was Clinton’s in 1994.

This time, when we went for all the marbles, we ended with none.

Could a deal have been reached? Who knows? But we do know that the gap between this plan and traditional Republican ideas is not very big. The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan. It builds on ideas developed at the Heritage Foundation in the early 1990s that formed the basis for Republican counter-proposals to Clintoncare in 1993-1994.
__________________
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
John Kenneth Galbraith
Reply With Quote
  #130 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2012, 02:14 PM
Rozman's Avatar
Supporting Member
Member #20981
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Brooklyn,NY
Posts: 9,930
Thanks: 1,246
Thanked 4,036 Times in 2,592 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 3076
Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute
Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute
I have a question that I would like to answered by both sides.
Is it possible for a company that insures it's employees to drop
the coverage and decide to pay the fine because it's cheaper under Obamacare
then to pay the insurance company.

Then the employer hands out the list of exchanges that the employee will
have to make arrangements with for coverage.

Anyone have an opinion on this?
Reply With Quote
  #131 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2012, 02:39 PM
Rozman's Avatar
Supporting Member
Member #20981
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Brooklyn,NY
Posts: 9,930
Thanks: 1,246
Thanked 4,036 Times in 2,592 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 3076
Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute
Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute Rozman has a reputation beyond repute
I found a lot of articles that speculate this will be true
but these articles were written a while back.
Nothing more recent.I'm wondering if this was addressed
or are the Libs slipping this one past us.

If this is the case then Obama lied to America
when he said those who have coverage nothing will change
and we can still see our same Doctor and have the same coverage.

Last edited by Rozman; 03-18-2012 at 02:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #132 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2012, 06:18 AM
usmcstinger's Avatar
Registered User
Member #34694
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 795
Thanks: 1
Thanked 254 Times in 165 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 257
usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness usmcstinger may be on a path to greatness
[quote=Bfgrn;4978846]
Quote: Originally Posted by usmcstinger View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Bfgrn View Post
Provisions in the Affordable Care Act make it one of the toughest anti-fraud laws in history. The results? Another record setting year.

[BFeds recover $4.1B in h]ealth care fraud in 2011[/B]

Federal authorities say they recovered $last year, a record high which officials on Monday credited to new tools for cracking down on deceitful Medicare claims.

The recovered funds are up roughly 50 percent from 2009. Attorney General Eric Holder and Department of Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius were expected to make the announcement at a news conference Tuesday.


more

Nothing turns out to be so oppressive and unjust as a feeble government.
Edmund Burke[/QUOTE

The 4.1 billion in health care fraud is not the important news.

The Increased Cost of the AHA is the real news.

The just-released( by the CBO) 2012 projection tags the gross cost at $1.76 trillion through 2022—nearly twice the original costt.d
I'm Shocked! ObamaCare Costs More Than Promised - Forbes

"This report also presents estimates through fiscal year 2022, because the baseline projection period now extends through that additional year. The ACA’s provisions related to insurance coverage are now projected to have a net cost of $1,252 billion over the 2012-2022 period; that amount represents a [B]gross cost to the federal government of $1,762 billion, offset in part by $510 billion in receipts and other budgetary effects (primarily revenues from penalties and other sources)."http://www.cbo.gov/publication/43080

If you do not understand this information, then you must be living in a delusional world of your own design.
SO...you right wing turds who tried to hand Obama his Waterloo wanted to do NOTHING.


The Cost of Doing Nothing
Why the Cost of Failing to Fix Our Health System Is Greater than the Cost of Reform

2008

The U.S. health care system is in crisis. Health care costs too much; we often get too little in exchange for our health care dollar; and tens of millions of Americans are uninsured.

Our economy loses hundreds of billions of dollars every year because of the diminished health and shorter lifespan of the uninsured. Rising health care costs undermine the ability of U.S. firms to compete internationally, threaten the stability of American jobs, and place increasing strain on local, state, and federal budgets. As health care costs continue to rise faster than wages, health insurance becomes more and more unaffordable for more and more American families every day.

Yet, the recent financial services meltdown has led some people to suggest that we cannot afford health reform and that fixing our broken health care system will have to wait once again. But waiting comes with a price. The crisis worsens every day that we do not act. Premiums will continue to rise; Americans will continue to pay more for less-generous health coverage; and fewer employers will offer health insurance to their workers.

We must reform our struggling health system not in spite of our economic crisis, but rather because of the impact health care has on the American economy. The economic and social impact of inaction is high and it will only rise over time.

Economic Cost

The economic cost of failing to fix our broken health care system is greater than the upfront expense of comprehensive health reform. In 2006, our economy lost as much as $200 billion because of the poor health and shorter lifespan of the uninsured. This is by most estimates as much as, if not greater than, the public costs of ensuring all Americans have quality, affordable, health coverage. The economies in California, Texas, and Florida suffer most from productivity loses stemming from the uninsured. Yet, Delaware’s economy loses more per uninsured person -- over $6,800 per uninsured resident.

Affordability

As health care costs continue to grow faster than wages, health insurance will become more and more unaffordable for more and more American families every day. The financial burdens associated with health care and health insurance will only get worse over time without action.The cost of the average employer-sponsored health insurance plan (ESI) for a family will reach $24,000 in 2016. This represents an 84 percent increase over 2008 premium levels. Under this scenario, we estimate that at least half of American households will need to spend more than 45 percent of their income to buy health insurance.

More
You need to apply the "Structural Functional Theory" to Obama Care and the results will set you free in the real world. In the delusional world that the left wing nuts live in the story has to be different to fit into their world.
__________________
"No Marine Left Behind" Marines will intentionally risk their own safety to aid wounded comrades, or to retrieve the remains of fallen comrades.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Lower Navigation
Go Back   US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum > US Discussion > Healthcare/Insurance/Govt Healthcare
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:58 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.