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One in eight. Eliminating employer health care plans

This is a discussion on One in eight. Eliminating employer health care plans within the Healthcare/Insurance/Govt Healthcare forums, part of the US Discussion category; It also looks like they're rather excited about the new possibilities offered by the SHOP exchanges (without explicitly saying that): While defined contribution retirement plans ...


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Old 07-28-2011, 04:53 PM
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It also looks like they're rather excited about the new possibilities offered by the SHOP exchanges (without explicitly saying that):

Quote:
While defined contribution retirement plans have been the norm for several years and continue to increase relative to defined benefit plans, the same type of innovation has failed to reach the financing of health insurance. There are two primary reasons for that failure. The first is that the individual market in health insurance has not functioned well, making it unattractive for all but those without alternatives. There are many reasons why this has been so, but the effect has generally been to tie employees to an employer plan whenever possible.

The second reason is exclusion from taxable income. The employer’s contribution for employee health insurance is excluded from the employee’s income for tax purposes. However, if an employer contributes to help an employee purchase health insurance in the individual market, the employer’s contribution is counted as employee income for tax purposes.

With exchanges making the individual market more viable for many (removing the first barrier to defined contribution-type health insurance), a potential way of changing small-business owner involvement in employee health insurance is to change the exclusion of employer contributions that help employees purchase health insurance in the individual market (exchange). If those contributions were treated the same way employer contributions for employer-sponsored health insurance are treated, additional employers would be encouraged to contribute to employee purchases and employees would be encouraged to locate plans more attuned to their personal needs. Equal tax treatment therefore offers the second leg to a workable new option for both employers and employees.21

The survey questionnaire described (see, Q. 12 for the description) the defined contribution-type plan as a new option for financing employee health insurance without mentioning the term “defined contribution”. The purpose of the omission was to avoid confusion with defined benefit pension plans. Those who currently offer were asked, if available, how likely they would be to consider substituting this “new option” for their current health insurance plan. Twenty-two (22) percent say that they are “very likely” to consider the change and another 38 percent say that they are “somewhat likely”. Just 38 percent express little or no interest. The question was phrased differently for those who do not offer. It asked if they would consider participating or contributing if such a plan were available. Thirteen (13) percent say that they are “very likely” and another 42 percent say they are “somewhat likely” to participate. Forty-three (43) percent report little or no interest. In sum, 57 percent of small employers show an interest in possibly participating in defined contribution-type employee health insurance, though just 17 percent say that they are “very likely” to do so (Q. 12).
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Old 07-28-2011, 04:58 PM
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"The health insurance companies will be out of buisness if Obama gets his way."

Good. You pay in premium after premium and when you have a claim they have the right to sit down and deny you. What's the point? When you get old they dont want you anymore so this country CANNOT say they value life. If you value life, you TAKE CARE of your SENIORS and your NEWBORNS otherwise dont say you value life. Hypocrites.
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Old 07-28-2011, 05:13 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by initforme View Post
"The health insurance companies will be out of buisness if Obama gets his way."

Good. You pay in premium after premium and when you have a claim they have the right to sit down and deny you. What's the point? When you get old they dont want you anymore so this country CANNOT say they value life. If you value life, you TAKE CARE of your SENIORS and your NEWBORNS otherwise dont say you value life. Hypocrites.
Maybe just maybe you should read your coverage.
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Old 07-28-2011, 05:22 PM
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I say STICK it to the insurance companies. I am fine with No obama care but the system we have now ISNT WORKING except if you are a wealthy elitist person. Prices need to come down. Good bye insurance companies. Join the unemployment lines.
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Old 07-28-2011, 05:58 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by initforme View Post
I say STICK it to the insurance companies. I am fine with No obama care but the system we have now ISNT WORKING except if you are a wealthy elitist person. Prices need to come down. Good bye insurance companies. Join the unemployment lines.
I understand the frustration.

However if the insurance was allowed to act like insurance it would not cost so much.

But we insist it cover this, it cover that etc etc.

The dem plan AKA obumblecare makes it worse. Why do think all those waivers to cronies are being handed out. To hide the fact that 300% premium increases would be necessary.
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Old 07-28-2011, 06:36 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by initforme View Post
I say STICK it to the insurance companies. I am fine with No obama care but the system we have now ISNT WORKING except if you are a wealthy elitist person. Prices need to come down. Good bye insurance companies. Join the unemployment lines.
Quote: Originally Posted by Full-Auto View Post
I understand the frustration.

However if the insurance was allowed to act like insurance it would not cost so much.

But we insist it cover this, it cover that etc etc.

The dem plan AKA obumblecare makes it worse. Why do think all those waivers to cronies are being handed out. To hide the fact that 300% premium increases would be necessary.
I think these are both legitimate views. The current status quo for health insurance is deeply dysfunctional - and - that dysfunctional state is largely driven by unrealistic expectations. We think we can legislate away the harsh reality that not all of us can afford "the best" when it comes to health care. Some people will always get a better deal than others. This will be the case even if we socialize health care, only then instead of money being the primary factor, it will be other things: political connections, favor trading, bribery (granted, that's still 'money'), etc, etc...

What I see going on here is that the insurance industry is essentially making a play at becoming what amounts to a privately owned, public utility companies. They're trading in high profits for security. As a public utility their profits are nominally controlled by the state (for what that's worth) but, most importantly, they're guaranteed by the state. However much voters and regulators might whine about rate increases, once the insurance companies have quasi-monopoly, utility company status, all they have to do is throw up their hands and threaten bankruptcy and the public will succumb. We'll literally have no other choice.
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Old 07-28-2011, 06:58 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Sallow View Post
Funny Jroc..you didn't post shit about companies removing other benefits. Like Pensions. Obamacare again?

Now that Unions have been smashed..look forward to low wages and no benefits.
Pensions? That’s history we have 401k now. Anyway what percentages of pensions are the taxpayers are actually paying? Public sector union pensions, failed private sector pensions, some public sector union workers make as much or more in retirement then they did working... wake up man

Lets not forget the bondholders....

Quote:
I have worked for General Motors and Ford Motor Company and currently am an independent software developer. I am [speaking out] on behalf of my mother, an 80-year-old retired GM employee and small bondholder. Both my mother and I have over $100,000 in GM bonds. My mother uses the interest from the bonds for retirement income and I planned to do the same when I retire. We [urge] the Obama Administration to listen to our concerns and treat us fairly in the GM restructuring. Bondholders, especially small bondholders, are being ignored in negotiations, and singled out to bear lion’s share of the cost of restructuring GM.

Meet GM’s Bondholders: Jim Graves


They'll be coming after 401k too soon enough.

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Old 07-28-2011, 07:27 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Jroc View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Sallow View Post
Funny Jroc..you didn't post shit about companies removing other benefits. Like Pensions. Obamacare again?

Now that Unions have been smashed..look forward to low wages and no benefits.
Pensions? That’s history we have 401k now. Anyway what percentages of pensions are the taxpayers are actually paying? Public sector union pensions, failed private sector pensions, some public sector union workers make as much or more in retirement then they did working... wake up man

Lets not forget the bondholders....

Quote:
I have worked for General Motors and Ford Motor Company and currently am an independent software developer. I am [speaking out] on behalf of my mother, an 80-year-old retired GM employee and small bondholder. Both my mother and I have over $100,000 in GM bonds. My mother uses the interest from the bonds for retirement income and I planned to do the same when I retire. We [urge] the Obama Administration to listen to our concerns and treat us fairly in the GM restructuring. Bondholders, especially small bondholders, are being ignored in negotiations, and singled out to bear lion’s share of the cost of restructuring GM.

Meet GM’s Bondholders: Jim Graves


They'll be coming after 401k too soon enough.

too late!


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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2011, 07:28 PM
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This is Obamas plan to begin with . make it so employers cant or wont offer healthcare so he can go to single payer Ie socialized medicine.
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:31 PM
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Are we jumping the gun?

Aren't the majority of these changes not set to take effect until 2014?
(serious questions)




That being said, my company was granted a waiver and I am tickled shitless because the plan that I have ROCKS!
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Old 07-28-2011, 09:57 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by hortysir View Post
Are we jumping the gun?

Aren't the majority of these changes not set to take effect until 2014?
(serious questions)




That being said, my company was granted a waiver and I am tickled shitless because the plan that I have ROCKS!
Don't worry "you can keep your insurance if you like it"

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Old 07-30-2011, 11:41 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by uscitizen View Post
Pretty much the same rate of decline of employer health care coverage as when Bush was president and before Health Care Reform.
Exactly. Employers have been dropping health coverage for employees for years as the premiums continued to skyrocket but the tax writeoff therefor was not enough to reflect those increases. It wasn't worth it purely as a business expense.
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Old 07-30-2011, 11:42 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Quantum Windbag View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by rdean View Post
How many had health care plans before Obama? And don't say "All of them".
Are you a complete idiot?

Never mind, I know the answer.

This was a survey of businesses with health insurance what they are doing as a result of Obamacare. That means that all of them had insurance before, and 12% of them eliminated it because of the new costs.
Only 12%? Imagine that. If it were more in the range of 70%, I'd be worried.
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Old 07-30-2011, 11:46 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Jroc View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by dblack View Post
Which is really what needs to happen. This has been in the cards for a long time, and while it may be painful, it could point us toward a real solution. Pushing us all into dependency on our employers for our health care was a horrible idea in the first place, and in general, the low deductible, high premium insurance policy just isn't viable.

But what you're missing is that Obamacare is actually intent on reversing this trend. It's designed to keep people dependent on their employers - or better yet (from the state's point of view) the government - for the most crucial need they have, their very health.

Health care 'reform', like pretty much any government agenda these days, is about controlling people first and foremost. The insurance industry lobbied vigorously to be 'at the table' and in on whatever the state cooks up. But the last priority is the welfare (and most especially, the freedom) of the average citizen. We are pawns in their corporatist game and little more.
The health insurance companies will be out of buisness if Obama gets his way.
If that's a bet, I'll take it and give you great odds. They're already raising their premiums to outrageous levels in order to cover any anticipated loss of profits in 2014. Ah capitalism. Gotta love it. It will be a cold day in hell before health insurance companies fold as an industry. It's far too lucrative, and they'll figure out a way to keep their profits high. Trust me.
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Old 07-30-2011, 11:49 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
I don't have the time to read the whole thing carefully right now, but the NFIB survey says:

Quote:
The number of small employers offering employee health insurance has not changed appreciably in the last 12 months, the post-PPACA passage time frame. About 1 percent of those who now offer health insurance claim that they added it as an employee benefit within the last year (Q. 3). In contrast, 4 percent of those now without employee health insurance dropped the benefit in the same time frame (Q. 3a). These changes are relatively small, a net decline of about 2 percentage points over a 12-month period. The numbers are also subject to sampling error. Still, a constant change of that magnitude over an extended period leads to significant erosion of employer provided health insurance. And, that is what has occurred over the past decade. Both the Medical Expenditure Panel Survey (MEPS) and the Kaiser Family Foundation survey document declines of about 10 percentage points in 10 years or about one-half million firms.5 The data presented here document continuation of the longer-term trend.

Small-business owners forecast no major changes in the number of small firms offering employee health insurance in the next year. Thirty-four (34) percent of small employers say that it is “very likely” that they will offer the benefit next year at this time with another 10 percent saying they are “somewhat likely” (Q. 6). In comparison, 37 percent report they are “not at all likely” and another 18 percent are “not too likely”. Combining percentages of the “likely” group (44%) and the “not likely” group (55%) yields a division almost identical to the current 42 – 58 percent offer/not offer split.

Not only should we expect no change in health insurance offers during the next year on a net basis (percent adopting minus percent dropping), we should also expect virtually no change on an individual per firm basis. Those who currently offer employee health insurance are likely to have the benefit 12 months from now and those not offering employee health insurance are not likely to offer it in the coming 12 months. However, the former possess more unwavering intentions than do the latter. Seventy-nine (79) percent of those currently offering insurance say that it is “very likely” they will still offer the benefit next year at this time while another 9 percent say that it is “somewhat likely” (Table 1). That leaves 12 percent who may drop health insurance, though just 2 percent indicate that having the benefit next year is “not at all likely”.
Not quite as alarmist as the PR.
It was from Hot Air. You expected something fair?
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