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Americans Will Suffer Under New Obamacare Mandates

This is a discussion on Americans Will Suffer Under New Obamacare Mandates within the Healthcare/Insurance/Govt Healthcare forums, part of the US Discussion category; A shocking new study out by McKinsey and Company finds that 30–50 percent of employers who currently provide health insurance for their employees are likely ...


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Old 06-09-2011, 01:48 PM
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Americans Will Suffer Under New Obamacare Mandates

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A shocking new study out by McKinsey and Company finds that 30–50 percent of employers who currently provide health insurance for their employees are likely to drop their coverage. Yes, that’s right. Even if you like your insurance, you will not be able to keep it, as President Obama often and famously promised.

Obamacare offers subsidies to low- and middle-income workers who don’t have employer coverage while fining employers that do not offer coverage. But for employers, paying the fines will be a lot less expensive than continuing to offer coverage. As the McKinsey report correctly notes, that will still be true even if employers also pass the remaining savings (after paying the fines) onto their workers in the form of higher cash wages or other benefits such as extra vacation days or increased retirement plan contributions.

In a recent paper, Heritage’s Paul Winfree and Brian Blase write that “the subsidies will encourage employers to drop coverage, perpetuate an already inequitable tax code, and discourage work and upward mobility.”
Essentially, employers are being forced to drop their coverage in order to remain profitable. Thus, many of their employees will have no choice but the state exchanges for health care coverage.

Small business is the lifeblood of the American economy, and employers are now being forced to reckon with new health care coverage mandates on top of a host of new and costly regulations in other areas. All of these regulations are expensive barriers that discourage entrepreneurship and job creation.
The New Obamacare Mandates | The Foundry

This is DELIBERATE on the part of the Obama admin. They want us all dependent on them for our healthcare, thus they can control all of us, and force us to vote for Democrats to "protect" our healthcare.

Voters need to recognize that's the plan, and not fall for it.

VOTE THESE PEOPLE OUT OF OFFICE AND VOTE IN PEOPLE WHO WILL GET OUT OF THE WAY OF BUSINESS.

2012 cannot come soon enough.
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Old 06-09-2011, 02:21 PM
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You remind me of Harold Camping and his predictions for the future of how he was so sure what would happen.

So I ask you, what happens if in the 2012 elections the democrats don't get swept out of office? What then? What will you look forward to then?

Or

What happens if a republican does take office and you think everything will miraculously do a 180 for the better, but it doesn't. What happens if it's the same same bullshit with a different guy in charge? What will you look forward to then?
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Old 06-09-2011, 02:25 PM
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I think it has a good chance of the Supreme Court ruling it unconstitutional.
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Old 06-09-2011, 03:59 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by RDD_1210 View Post
You remind me of Harold Camping and his predictions for the future of how he was so sure what would happen.

So I ask you, what happens if in the 2012 elections the democrats don't get swept out of office? What then? What will you look forward to then?

Or

What happens if a republican does take office and you think everything will miraculously do a 180 for the better, but it doesn't. What happens if it's the same same bullshit with a different guy in charge? What will you look forward to then?
What what happens if you die tonight and you find out that mocking of Christ in your avatar was a big mistake? (no, it's not a threat. But it's just as valid a question as the stuff you asked. In fact, a lot more.)

I'm just laying out the facts, YOU are just ranting at me because YOU don't have any answers to those facts.

The problem is, you probably aren't old enough to remember Carter.

They told us THEN a Republican wouldn't improve things. But SURPRIZE along came Reagan and made all those liberal naysayers, just like YOU, look like the fools they are (and STILL ARE).

So, continue with your arrogance born of youth, inexperience, and just frankly having no damn clue.

I'll stick with experience, and experience tells me your guy is in a lot of trouble.

I can't wait for you to lie your butt off telling me you didn't vote for Obama, he's not your guy, etc etc etc, even though you attack ANY threads that question your "all powerful" messiah.

You libs don't fool anyone.

How many of you on here are paid to lie like that, anyway?

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Old 06-09-2011, 04:16 PM
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You think that's bad...

Wait until the Death Panels start
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Old 06-09-2011, 06:07 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by rightwinger View Post
You think that's bad...

Wait until the Death Panels start
The problem is YOU don't think they exist, when thanks to Obama, they are already here.

Ever hear of Avastin?

» Who Gets to Decide Our Health Care? - Big Government
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Old 06-09-2011, 06:21 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by teapartysamurai View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by rightwinger View Post
You think that's bad...

Wait until the Death Panels start
The problem is YOU don't think they exist, when thanks to Obama, they are already here.

Ever hear of Avastin?

» Who Gets to Decide Our Health Care? - Big Government
It's not just the Death Panels...it's the complete Government takeover of our entire medical system

what was Obama thinking?
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Old 06-09-2011, 06:26 PM
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Old 06-09-2011, 11:04 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by teapartysamurai
This is DELIBERATE on the part of the Obama admin. They want us all dependent on them for our healthcare, thus they can control all of us, and force us to vote for Democrats to "protect" our healthcare.
Indeed it is!

They want to run everything and its quite sad!
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Old 06-10-2011, 12:41 AM
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Every element of Obamacare is a lie. Every "fact" presented about it by Obama and Congress is simply untrue.
The amazing thing is that left still thinks it's great.
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Old 06-10-2011, 07:37 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by teapartysamurai View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by RDD_1210 View Post
You remind me of Harold Camping and his predictions for the future of how he was so sure what would happen.

So I ask you, what happens if in the 2012 elections the democrats don't get swept out of office? What then? What will you look forward to then?

Or

What happens if a republican does take office and you think everything will miraculously do a 180 for the better, but it doesn't. What happens if it's the same same bullshit with a different guy in charge? What will you look forward to then?
What what happens if you die tonight and you find out that mocking of Christ in your avatar was a big mistake? (no, it's not a threat. But it's just as valid a question as the stuff you asked. In fact, a lot more.)

I'm just laying out the facts, YOU are just ranting at me because YOU don't have any answers to those facts.

The problem is, you probably aren't old enough to remember Carter.

They told us THEN a Republican wouldn't improve things. But SURPRIZE along came Reagan and made all those liberal naysayers, just like YOU, look like the fools they are (and STILL ARE).

So, continue with your arrogance born of youth, inexperience, and just frankly having no damn clue.

I'll stick with experience, and experience tells me your guy is in a lot of trouble.

I can't wait for you to lie your butt off telling me you didn't vote for Obama, he's not your guy, etc etc etc, even though you attack ANY threads that question your "all powerful" messiah.

You libs don't fool anyone.

How many of you on here are paid to lie like that, anyway?

I voted for Obama and I'd vote for him again based upon who the alternate options are so far. That's another topic though.

I just feel bad for you since you seem to be so looking forward to 2012 as if everything is going to get better for you all of a sudden. I think you're setting yourself up for a huge letdown, no matter who wins the presidency.

Don't get me started on the Christ stuff, we'd have to start a whole new thread for that topic!
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Quote: Originally Posted by Quantum Windbag View Post
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:02 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by peach174 View Post
I think it has a good chance of the Supreme Court ruling it unconstitutional.
This is the socialists' plan for dealing with that eventuality -something they knew was going to happen because they made sure it would!

Once SCOTUS rules government cannot order or force citizens to spend their money in the private sector the way government thinks is best, Democrats will respond by saying the only remedy is for government to become the sole provider entirely. And then make citizens pay for it in the form of never ending rising taxes on the same kind of scale seen in Europe where nearly half of everything a person earns ends up in the government's pocket and citizens exist as government owned slaves with very little real control of their lives. The entire mentality changes under such a system where people end up believing government somehow NATURALLY has first claim on what THEY bust their butt to earn -it is no longer THEIR money. It becomes government's money and government will decide how much it will ALLOW people to keep of their own money. One of MANY problems with government run health care is that people will end being FORCED by government to spend nearly twice as much for their health care in the form of taxes -than they would have VOLUNTARILY chosen to spend on their health care if they paid for it directly. It is a huge scam and naturally taxpayers are the ones screwed to the hilt in the process.

I truly have to wonder about the ability to even THINK by those who can SEE this same system failing left and right in Europe, driving nations to the brink of bankruptcy, one nation after another facing a financial brick wall and looking for ways to start privatizing their own health care systems again because it is an unsustainable system -always. Liberals LOVE to use the UK and France as FINE examples where they claim it works -but in reality the one in the UK now gives substandard care and people are sacrificing their health and life expectancy and people with curable conditions are being denied treatment for it in spite of the fact denying them treatment will force them to die earlier. That is actually what is desired by denying them treatment -hurry up and die already because it is the most cost effective option. And in spite of forcing premature deaths on the elderly at an increasing rate -it is still going broke. France's system is fast approaching undeniable bankruptcy and people are already facing the fact that they too will be forced by their own government to accept a substandard level of health care and their quality of life will take a direct hit as they look for an out too. The problems with the Canadian system are legend -with things like dying of TONSILLITIS on the rise because it takes more than two years for elective surgery now! A delay in treatment naturally means conditions will worsen and be more resistant to treatment. Oh yeah but hey, at least the parents of the kid who dies from tonsillitis can feel GOOD pretending that at least the health care was "free". If the kid paid for it with his LIFE, then it ain't free, is it? Both France and the UK are trying to privatize some or all of their system again and it is just a matter of time before Canada will be forced to as well. SO WHAT IS THE LIBERAL RATIONALE FOR GOING DOWN THIS SAME STUPID PATH?????

There are only two choices under a government run health care system -sacrifice the quality of care for everyone (except the ruling elite -they will never submit to the poor quality they have no problem arrogantly inflicting on everyone else) and hold off bankrupting the system for a while. Or still provide top notch care and end up bankrupt faster. Obamacare has chosen substandard care -because that is the system that will be in place under it. He already said he wants our health care system to FUNDAMENTALLY change its entire priority from existing to treat the ill in order to restore them to health or improve their quality of life -to existing for the benefit of the healthy to "keep them healthy". Which is IMPOSSIBLE. Medical advancements are NOT made by treating the healthy who had no need of medical care at all -but by working to restore the health of the ill. So the system Obama envisions is one that exists primarily for the benefit of those who don't even need it! Not those who do. And HERE is where the SCAM comes into play with it. The notion that going to the doctor while healthy will somehow keep you healthy is not only WASTING, over-utilizing and overburdening the entire system and is a provably humongous waste of resources so they can get told what they already knew when they walked in -that there is nothing wrong with them -its a LIE. Going to the doctor when there is nothing wrong with you will NOT keep you healthy -and in fact you only make it more difficult for the person who DOES need to be seen to be treated in a timely manner! Doctors cannot spot something wrong before the individual does -because it is the symptoms that help a doctor figure out what is wrong with you in the first place! The notion of preventative health care is a PROVEN COLOSSAL ineffective waste of resources. The system Obama envisions for us all will insure those who really do need to be seen will have their own care delayed, insuring the sick get sicker, mortality rates start rising. Just as is happening in the UK right now -because it is UNSUSTAINABLE! I don't care how many times a fucking stupid liberal wants to insist it will work -it won't. Once implemented you are only talking about when it will collapse, not if it will -and how many people will be forced to pay for it with their health, their standard of living, their quality of life, their life expectancy and even their life. Health care is never free but the true costs of it to us as the people it will be inflicted on isn't a financial one. It is much, much worse than that.

Under our system of government (which liberals hope to change to an historically failed one instead), government can't tell people how to spend their money in the private sector and they KNEW that when they drew up and rammed this bill down our throats against our will. (They hope for the day when the Supreme Court will just declare the Constitution to be an irrelevant piece of paper and government can lay claim to any power it wants.) There wasn't even any exception made for those who choose to pay for their health care entirely out of their own pocket in order to keep full control of their health care with THEM instead of with an insurance company or allowing government to have any say in their health care. If I choose to pay for my own health care entirely out of MY pocket because that keeps all medical decisions between me and my doctor and me with the power over MY life and MY destiny where it belongs -then where does government get off insisting I must forfeit that control to either government or some other third party? WTF?? But Obamacare made NO exception for those who choose to pay directly for their own health care which is actually MY RIGHT TO DO! I pay LESS for my health care than those with insurance because insurance companies make sure to charge you MORE than you will end up using in the first place -or they don't make money and can't stay in business! That's right -I actually pay LESS for my health care than the average person with insurance. I am responsible for ME and do not ask nor expect anyone else to take it for me or FROM ME. And because I pay directly for it -guess what? When doctors find out I am going to pay them upfront and cut out the middleman entirely, they won't be saddled with repetitive paperwork, won't have to deal with any insurance company or the government with regard to my health care - they are UNIFORMLY willing to cut me a deal on the price they are FORBIDDEN from doing for anyone with insurance! My out of pocket costs are nearly identical to that of someone with health care insurance when they go to the doctor -except they also have to pay thousands a year for that insurance that I don't. The whole point of insurance -no matter who runs it -is to make you pay more for your health care by forking it over to them as a middleman third party than it would have cost if you had just paid for it directly in the first place. The insurance company gains when it becomes the middleman -and SO DOES GOVERNMENT which will also be in a position to do something no insurance company can. FORCE you to fork over your money to government whether you want them as your middleman or not.

Control someone's HEALTH and you control that person for life. His very life is in your hands and instead of a government that exists for the benefit of all citizens on an equal basis, equality will disappear as government rapidly weighs the value of your life up in the most cost effective use of DOLLARS. What a heady power to decide whether another person may or may not receive medical treatment no matter how much they want it. You forfeit your control to an insurance company and don't like their judgment -change companies or better yet, take that power and control BACK for yourself and cut out the middleman. But there is no taking that control and power back for yourself when government has taken that power for itself. YOU become the servant and government your master in control of your destiny. It is a power and control the LEFT is SALIVATING to grab! And they are masters at using touchy-feely words to disguise their lust for that power. Don't kid yourself -the battle over health care isn't about HEALTH. It isn't about what is in OUR best interests as individuals or citizens. It sure as hell is NOT about saving money for anyone. It is about POWER -who has it, who will be stripped of it and who will be the real winners and end up controlling it -and in position to control even the minutiae in the lives of every person. Claiming of course that it isn't FAIR to taxpayers if you are allowed to eat or drink stuff the ruling elite now claims is BAD for you or engage in activities the ruling elite decides is too "risky" and "unfair" to taxpayers. All of which in itself is the PERFECT argument for why you don't want government in control of YOUR health care in the first place! FREEDOM and socialism are actually INCOMPATIBLE and the left insists we must forfeit our freedoms in the name of "what's good for us" -as "good" is always defined by someone else when the ONLY valid definition of what is in my own best interests is MY OWN since I am the sole owner of my life. Not government! I'm a grown up and have NO desire for a replacement for mommy and daddy so I can avoid taking responsibility for myself. Liberals on the other hand have a real fear of adulthood and seem to think a life of perpetual adolescence is preferable.

The timing on when everything is supposed to roll out and be up and running was carefully done. They believe there will be far less resistance to the idea of a total government takeover of 25% of our entire economy by insisting since government can't force people to buy private insurance, it only makes sense for government to become the sole provider. Oh all while trying to delude and LIE to citizens that government can do it better, provide superior care and be more cost effective than the private sector anyway. And what better time to do it after SCOTUS only rules the mandate to be unconstitutional but it already has the infrastructure in place to complete the power grab. Get real -government cannot do ANY of that. The left wants the massive expansion of government already in place so when SCOTUS rules government cannot force people to spend their money in the private sector on any goods or services, liberals will immediately insist the only solution is for government to become the sole provider -and oh LOOK, it has everything in place to do, we might as well bow down to the inevitable anyway, right? And they will lie some more by insisting it won't cost anything extra to finish that power grab anyway. It is why the government is NOT asking for a fast track with SCOTUS -yet insisting states MUST comply fully with this law anyway even after one federal judge struck down the mandate portion and another struck down the entire law. It is all by design and so far it is going according to plan.

90% of ALL medical advancements in the WORLD come from the US with THIS system -something that benefits mankind around the globe. And the left is convinced along with their anti-American beliefs anyway, that this is a system that MUST be destroyed and replaced with a known historical failure instead. And will go down insisting doing so will actually provide greater benefits somehow. LYING ASS BULLSHIT.

And tough shit for the vast majority of people in this country who oppose it, that they do not want a government run health care system, they do not want government to become the sole provider -and absolutely despise the way this was IMPOSED on us by a fucking ruling elite who are arrogant enough to insist they can run our lives better than we can. The sheer ARROGANCE of these people still has me seeing red. THIS is what the roots of tyranny look like -long before it starts turning on its own citizens and these are the people who would look you right in the eye and justify why it was "necessary" to strip Americans of a big chunk of freedom including their RIGHT to determine the laws and rules THEY agree to be governed by. Something the left has zero respect for since they firmly believe they have a greater right to IMPOSE their will on the majority and don't mind using any means to do it. The last thing liberals give a shit about is real rights and the freedom of others. Ain't on their list of priorities.

Did you know that throughout ALL of man's history only 5% of human beings have ever lived in freedom? This is a perfect example of how to strip the rights and freedom from an entire population. Insist its for their own good and hey, don't you just KNOW how much those in power just ...CARE about you and all? Freedom is always lost under the guise of "caring" -and apparently our species will never learn the hard lesson of history. Government makes a vicious, uncaring, inhumane master. Government can only increase its power and claim new rights and authorities -by stripping us of them first. You really have to be a freedom-hating moron to be a liberal. So freedom hating that they will not only gladly forfeit their own freedoms and rights for a fucking PITTANCE -but that of their descendants as well. Something OUR ancestors did not do to us -probably because they understood they didn't have that right.
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:44 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by peach174 View Post
I think it has a good chance of the Supreme Court ruling it unconstitutional.
I agree
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:47 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by RDD_1210 View Post
I voted for Obama and I'd vote for him again based upon who the alternate options are so far.
You are one stupid ass MF'er
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:49 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by The Rabbi View Post
Every element of Obamacare is a lie. Every "fact" presented about it by Obama and Congress is simply untrue.
The amazing thing is that left still thinks it's great.
You mean Obamacare is not shovel ready???
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