Revealed: UK’s first official sharia courts - Times Online

"The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violence."

This should prove interesting.

__________________
Poor Spot! He was tired of being thought of as stupid. "I'm gonna join Mensa," he said to myself, "and then I'll be legally permitted to wear the society's insignia--a tattoo of a little map pin pushed into my flesh--and then everyone'll know that I'm not dumb at all!"
Spot Joins Mensa
by James "Kibo" Parry

oh goody---I hope Mikey likes it !

__________________
"Some men eventually stumble over the truth but they usually pick themselves up and walk on as if nothing ever happened."
-Winston Churchill

"But though there is no difference in this respect between the best demagogue and the worst, both of them having to present their cases equally in terms of melodrama, there is all the difference in the world between the statesman who is humbugging the people into allowing him to do the will of God, in whatever disguise it may come to him, and one who is humbugging them into furthering his personal ambition and the commercial interests of the plutocrats who own the newspapers and support him on reciprocal terms."
-George Bernard Shaw

The power of liberalism..........I mean socialism

Inbreeding and anemia have finally taken their toll on the Brits.

__________________
Poor Spot! He was tired of being thought of as stupid. "I'm gonna join Mensa," he said to myself, "and then I'll be legally permitted to wear the society's insignia--a tattoo of a little map pin pushed into my flesh--and then everyone'll know that I'm not dumb at all!"
Spot Joins Mensa
by James "Kibo" Parry

It seems to me that what the Brits have done is to allow Sharia courts to be arbiters in disputes between Muslims. Sharia isn't privileged above secular English law. And I would think that any decision by these tribunals wouldn't be able to breach English secular law.

Are you aware that in Britain Jews have recourse to their own courts for religious and cultural matters? The Beth Din can only be resorted to if all parties in a dispute or a matter are Jews. The Beth Din also operate as an arbitrator in disputes between Jews, much like the Sharia tribunals mentioned in this story.

And I reckon there's nothing at all wrong with allowing Muslims and Jews to have recourse to their own religious arbitrators.

__________________
I've seen the wild horses, I've heard the bull roarers

we'll see what happens when sharia practices fall outside British law. you know stoning, marrying off a daughter without her consent,etc.

__________________
"If you want the government to give you puppies and rainbows, don't pout when you're picking up dog shit in the rain"
--Skull Pilot


...being permitted to vote for politicians who enact unjust, oppressive new laws magically converts the stripes on prison shirts into emblems of freedom.
--James Bovard

It is not the function of our Government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the Government from falling into error.
-- U.S. Supreme Court, in American Communications Association v. Douds, 339 U.S. 382,442

Always and never are two words you should always remember never to use.
- Wendell Johnson

I do not believe in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.
-- Thomas Carlyle

I agree, that would be the test. But there have been prosecutions already for crimes committed against English law by people claiming to be following ethnic customs or religious dictates and they have introduced to the concept of "here's your cell, we'll tell you when you can be let out for some exercise and for meals". And that's how it should be.

__________________
I've seen the wild horses, I've heard the bull roarers

Yup, of course Jews have been demanding that according to their religion Government must be religious right? This is foolish in the extreme. it tells Muslims one thing, that the west is weak.

It encourages them to push for more and it tells them they will get what they want. But you spin it anyway you want. Remind us again how Christian religion is bad but Muslims should have their own laws.

__________________
The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd. Indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.

-Bertrand Russell

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable

-Laurence J. Peters

I never said that you had no right to have an opinion. I just said that it was, in fact, worth nothing.

-Maineman ( on 12 June 2007)

No Rock. Jews haven't been doing that in Britain. The Chief Rabbi, Jonathan Sacks, is a very influential person in Britain. He is influential by dint of his intellect and his ability to explain to Britons just exactly what Judaism in Britain is about and how British Jews relate to British society. I listened to some of his lectures on radio a couple of years ago and I was extremely impressed with his knowledge and his humanity. He is a man to be admired.

Jews quietly negotiated the Beth Din. And guess what? Britain ticked along nicely as the Beth Din was organised. In London there are large areas of the city that are acknowledged as Jewish communities and have been for many, many years, Jews have conducted their affairs with one another and with the larger community with nary a spark of concern (except where Jews were victimised of course). These are peaceful communities. The differences within the Jewish community stayed within the Jewish community and were sorted out there. The Beth Din at least gave some sort of authority to agreements hammered out by disputants. Halakah applies to Jews, it doesn't apply to gentiles.

Same thing for this quiet shift to using Sharia arbitration panels. It's for Muslims only, it doesn't affect non-Muslims. It's a simple accommodation of the wishes of the Muslim community and it doesn't, nor does Halakah, conflict with the secular laws of the country.

And Christians in England have had for hundreds of years their own law - Canon Law. Only recently in legal history has it been subsumed to secular law. But it is still a powerful part of English law albeit restricted somewhat. It drives the Church of England and secular law won't interfere with it unless secular law is broken. Just like Halakah and Sharia.

Why do you think English judges wear those coloured robes Rock? They harken back to the time when the courts of England were run by the clergy. Yes, once upon a time English common law courts were run by clergy-judges. It took a long time for the secular law to rip authority away from the clergy but they did it. I don't think the Brits will return to that mediaeval circumstance any time soon.

__________________
I've seen the wild horses, I've heard the bull roarers

Jews have always been more inclined to try and blend in to the local culture whereas Muslims consider all things nonIslamic sinful.

__________________
WARNING: For topical use only. DO NOT take internally.

this sends women back a thousand years in Britain. They are no better off now than when they lived in the Holy Land. Talks about a stacked judge and jury.

Well Jews weren't that successful in England it seems. They were all thrown out at one time, not sure of name of the King who did it but I think it was about 12th or 13th century. The lore is that Jews came over with Guillaume when he invaded in 1066 but there's some evidence of Jews being in Britain before the Norman invasion. They were very influential. In the City of London (the old Roman city, the square mile that is the financial hub) there is an are called Old Jewry that used to the the Jewish ghetto before the major expulsion. That area is actually the headquarters of the City of London Police (not to be confused with the Metropolitan Police).

Yes, it seems that Jews are more inclined to blend in (as much as anti-Judaism will allow of course) and that has a lot to do with the Jewish teachings I believe (I'm not Jewish nor am I tutored in Jewish culture). That's probably about survival though. In Christian countries it seems historically Jews have been reviled and tolerated in a sort of swirling set of policies (remember Shakespeare's adaptation of earlier idea in his "Shylock:The Merchant of Venice" and the shifting into everyday English of the idea of a "shylock" being someone you need to be wary of in a busines deal).

But there is absolutely no indication that this recognition of Sharia to help sort out internal disputes in the Muslim communities in Britain is going to spread to the non-Muslim community. I think that's scare-mongering.

__________________
I've seen the wild horses, I've heard the bull roarers

It doesn't transcend secular law.

__________________
I've seen the wild horses, I've heard the bull roarers

Yeah well... we'll see how long that lasts. The muslims are taking over the UK, plain and simple. They're just taking little bites at a time.

tiny steps, tiny steps, it's just a matter of time.