It will be interesting to see how Russia reacts to this in the UN . . . and otherwise.

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"Every difference of opinion is not a difference of principle. We have called by different names brethren of the same principle."

Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1801

Russia will do everyhthing they can to interfere and stop them from joining the EU as well as generally create mayhem.

We should pick a date next year and say all people who want to declare independence do so. Then we can re-draw the maps and all get along.

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Freedom is free - oppression costs money.

Russia has no control over whether Kosovo will get into the EU.

However, they won't. No chance that Spain will let them.

Spain? Why single out the Spaniards? Spain just reconfirmed a very pro EU government over the weekend. Why not expand the EU? Because the Beneficent Collective hates Albanians? You are right, in general. The ethnic Albanians in Kosovo will wait approximately as long as Turkey to get into the EU, i.e., a very long time.

This has nothing to do with pro-EU or anti-EU governments. It has to do with recognizing the legitimacy of independence movements. Spain really really doesn't want to recognize a new state that just sort of broke off and declared independence. Not because they care about Kosovo, they don't. But they don't want the Basques to do the same thing.

By the way, I find it hilarious that you act as if the EU is socialist somehow. Its a series of governments getting together and creating a federal government, which doesn't have that much power. Remind you of anyone? Except in their case the fed doesn't have that much power, in our case it has a ton of power. I know, I know...the US surely is a beneficient socialist collective.

Glad you are entertained.

What country in the EU, or anywhere for that matter, would recognize the Basques? None, probably not even Kosovo. The reason that countries like Turkey and Kosovo are rejected or put into multi-decade application processes, is that EU countries like France and Spain do not want to absorb the workers. Even worse than Poland, the proletariat in places like Kosovo and Turkey will blow out the wage structure in the Collective. And that's not too popular with the voters. It is why the French rejected the EU Constitution.

Few right now. However precedent is very important in international law. Wait 20 or 30 years down the line, and it may be different. Regions trying to break off from states have become more common in the last 50 years given decolonization. Quebec, Chechnya, Basque, etc.


Turkey yes, Kosovo, no. The EU was trying to have a united stance to recognize Kosovos independence.

Look at the states who want to recognize Kosovo. Britain, France, the US, Germany, etc. States against it? Cyprus (separatist problem), Spain (Separatist problem), Russia (Separatist problem).

It has nothing to do with the fear of being overrun by the massive population of 2 million Albanians. It has everything to do with countries fears about their own separatist groups. Int'l law matters, and so does saving face. If Spain recognizes Kosovo, what arguments can they give against the Basques?


Right which is why they let in Romania (population 22 million), but are staunchly against Kosovo (Population 2 million).

By the way...if thats why France rejected the EU Constitution, why do they support the independence of kosovo?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1811

An article to back up what I am saying.

There's a big difference between recognizing Kosovo independence and allowing them in the EU. There is next to zero chance that the Basques would ever be recognized. How many years has that region been part of Spain? The Russians are adhering to a Serbian alliance that goes back to before WW2. That is why they oppose the creation of Kosovo. Not because they are worried that the US and UK will someday recognize Chechnya. You think that even if just half of Kosovo workers left for jobs in other EU countries it would be insignificant? No, the main issue is economic. And in the case of the Albanians and Turks there are also cultural issues. If Turks, Albanians, Serbs, and Romanians for that matter, show up in big numbers to compliment the "Polish plumbers," then the politicians in Western Europe will be voted out of office.

Not really, no. Obviously those states that don't recognize them won't let them into the EU.

Thats nice. How long an area was part of a state isn't a criteria for declaring independence. The ruling case for this is the Quebec case in the Canadian courts, and thats not mentioned.

The Russians don't give a shit about the Serbs. It has everything to do with Chechnya. Its just a great coincidence that all the countries with separatist movements oppose Kosovo, and all the ones without it are embracing it, right?

Pretty much, yes. And there is no reason to think that half would leave Kosovo to go to the EU.



Believe what you want to believe, but pretty much anyone who is involved in Int'l law at any level is saying that its about independence movements.

I'll have to agree with Larkinn on this one...It probably does have something to do with economics because that always plays a role. However, I think it has to do with saving face. Russia & Spain don't want similar problems to deal with. It's kind of like the kid that gets in trouble for smoking weed and he throws back in the parents' face, "Well you did it when you were a kid." I see exactly where you're going with that. They're also holding up their image of non-independence. They didn't want all of those countries to break-off, but the couldn't stop them at the time. The only reason they lost the shatter-zone was because of the Soviet Union collapse. If the Russians could have handled it, all of eastern Europe would still be in their control (which almost still is). They want to show the world and Chechnya that they still mean business when it comes to declaring independence. And the U.S., for that matter, is trying to uphold its reputation of independence. I think this whole conflict is a matter of "saving-face." World War I began over the "saving-face." One guy got killed and the world erupts in chaos.