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Old 07-05-2009, 09:55 PM
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New glaciers forming

This is cool.......


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The beginning of a New Glacier Forming in the Crater of Mount St. Helens.
Snow Accumulation in the Crater of Mount St. Helens.

Charles H. Anderson Jr and DR. Mark Vining

Dec. 15, 2000

INTRODUCTION

The association of the International Glaciospeleology Survey has studied the glaciokarstic phenomenon in many glaciers of the world, from Washington State, Canada, Alaska etc. A new forming glacier in the Crater of Mount St. Helens has obtained the most exciting results, on both the exploration and scientific research fronts.

On Mount St. Helens, we have had a unique opportunity to study the interaction of geothermal energy with the accumulation of alpine snowpack from its inception after a major eruption. We began investigative work in the crater in 1981 (Anderson and others,2000). Yearly surveys began in 1982 with mapping, description, and photography of cave passages, snow, firn, and ice. This investigation involved reconnaissance mapping and sampling from 1981 through 2000 by members of the International Glaciospeleological Survey (IGS) with the permission of the U.S. Forest Service and Mount St. Helens National Volcanic Monument.
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Old 07-05-2009, 10:08 PM
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I'm looking at a glacier right now (okay, it was 10 minutes ago) that is 60% of the size it was 50 years ago.
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Old 07-05-2009, 10:09 PM
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Imagine that.
Quote:
Study Says Glaciers Formed During a Very Warm Period
Published: January 11, 2008
OSLO (Reuters) — Giant glaciers formed about 90 million years ago during a warm period when alligators thrived in the Arctic, researchers said Thursday, calling into question the belief that all ice melts in a “super greenhouse” climate.

The researchers’ study, based on organic molecules in ocean sediments and chemicals in ancient fossil shells, indicated that there were ice sheets in Antarctica in parts of the Turonian period, one of the warmest times in history, when dinosaurs thrived..................................cont'

Quote:
Science News

Did Early Global Warming Divert A New Glacial Age?

Science Daily (Dec. 18, 2008) — The common wisdom is that the invention of the steam engine and the advent of the coal-fueled industrial age marked the beginning of human influence on global climate.
But gathering physical evidence, backed by powerful simulations on the world's most advanced computer climate models, is reshaping that view and lending strong support to the radical idea that human-induced climate change began not 200 years ago, but thousands of years ago with the onset of large-scale agriculture in Asia and extensive deforestation in Europe.

What's more, according to the same computer simulations, the cumulative effect of thousands of years of human influence on climate is preventing the world from entering a new glacial age, altering a clockwork rhythm of periodic cooling of the planet that extends back more than a million years.....
Quote:
Kingman Daily Miner Oct 7, 2001
Geologists Find More Than 100 New Glaciers Forming In National Park .
Previously, officials believed the park 60 miles northwest of Denver included 20 permanent ice and snow features, including six named glaciers. The new ...
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Old 07-06-2009, 11:32 AM
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The glacier you speak of is growing rapidly mainly because of the major eruption in 1980 blowing the top off and creating a massive 1 mile wide crater. Then add recent (2004)magma, volcanic and seismic activity which has created a growing dome in the crater it has allowed a shaded area for a new glacier to form. There's always been a glacier on Mt St Helen's, it was just blown away in 1980 and is now reforming, all the Cascade glaciers are still intact.

Mount St. Helens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Crater Glacier and other new rock glaciers
Main article: Crater Glacier
During the winter of 1980–1981, a new glacier appeared. Now officially named Crater Glacier, it was formerly known as the Tulutson Glacier. Shadowed by the crater walls and fed by heavy snowfall and repeated snow avalanches, it grew rapidly (14 feet (4.3 m) per year in thickness). By 2004, it covered about 0.36 square miles (0.93 km2), and was divided by the dome into a western and eastern lobe. Typically, by late summer, the glacier looks dark from rockfall from the crater walls and ash from eruptions. As of 2006, the ice had an average thickness of 300 feet (100 m) and a maximum of 650 feet (200 m), nearly as deep as the much older and larger Carbon Glacier of Mount Rainier. The ice is all post–1980, making the glacier very young geologically. However, the volume of the new glacier is about the same as all the pre–1980 glaciers combined.[7][8][9][10][11]

With the recent volcanic activity starting in 2004, the glacier lobes were pushed aside and upward by the growth of new volcanic domes. The surface of the glacier, once mostly without crevasses, turned into a chaotic jumble of icefalls heavily criss-crossed with crevasses and seracs caused by movement of the crater floor.[12] The new domes have almost separated the Crater Glacier into an eastern and western lobe. Despite the volcanic activity, the termini of the glacier have still advanced, with a slight advance on the western lobe and a more considerable advance on the more shaded eastern lobe. Due to the advance, two lobes of the glacier joined together in late-May 2008 and thus the glacier completely surrounds the lava domes.[12][13][14] In addition, since 2004, new glaciers have formed on the crater wall above Crater Glacier feeding rock and ice onto its surface below; there are two rock glaciers to the north of the eastern lobe of Crater Glacier.[15]




An ignorat attempt to disprove GW.
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Old 07-06-2009, 11:44 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by k2skier View Post
An ignorat attempt to disprove GW.
Not at all. I don't plan on buying into the panic factor. Earth changes. Has for thousands upon thousands of years. Weather patterns change, they have for thousands upon thousands of years.
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Old 07-06-2009, 01:59 PM
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Then why bring up an extreme anomaly, that has nothing to do with GW at all?

I don't buy into the chicken little we're all going to die (which we all are but that's another topic...), just common sense and sustainability.

You either bring this up from regurgitating and spewing righty talking points, or you're ignorant on Mt St Helen's.
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Old 07-06-2009, 02:01 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by k2skier View Post
Then why bring up an extreme anomaly, that has nothing to do with GW at all?

I don't buy into the chicken little we're all going to die (which we all are but that's another topic...), just common sense and sustainability.

You either bring this up from regurgitating and spewing righty talking points, or you're ignorant on Mt St Helen's.
Um ... actually it does disprove it in a round about manner. Namely because the glacier would not be reforming as predicted if GW was real ... now would it ...
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Old 07-06-2009, 02:07 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by RodISHI View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by k2skier View Post
An ignorat attempt to disprove GW.
Not at all. I don't plan on buying into the panic factor. Earth changes. Has for thousands upon thousands of years. Weather patterns change, they have for thousands upon thousands of years.
So if something happens in moderation for a very long time, extreme changes can't hurt it?
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Old 07-06-2009, 02:09 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by KittenKoder View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by k2skier View Post
Then why bring up an extreme anomaly, that has nothing to do with GW at all?

I don't buy into the chicken little we're all going to die (which we all are but that's another topic...), just common sense and sustainability.

You either bring this up from regurgitating and spewing righty talking points, or you're ignorant on Mt St Helen's.
Um ... actually it does disprove it in a round about manner. Namely because the glacier would not be reforming as predicted if GW was real ... now would it ...
Sure it could. Nothing about Global Warming says that in 2009, nothing cold exists, or there can't be new glaciers, or the like.
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Old 07-06-2009, 02:15 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by k2skier View Post
Then why bring up an extreme anomaly, that has nothing to do with GW at all?

I don't buy into the chicken little we're all going to die (which we all are but that's another topic...), just common sense and sustainability.

You either bring this up from regurgitating and spewing righty talking points, or you're ignorant on Mt St Helen's.
Duh, you are the one that brought up "GW". Look back there jack, I said, "This is cool". I also said, "Imagine that".... Get that bug out of your ass, ass.
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Old 07-06-2009, 05:59 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by KittenKoder View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by k2skier View Post
Then why bring up an extreme anomaly, that has nothing to do with GW at all?

I don't buy into the chicken little we're all going to die (which we all are but that's another topic...), just common sense and sustainability.

You either bring this up from regurgitating and spewing righty talking points, or you're ignorant on Mt St Helen's.
Um ... actually it does disprove it in a round about manner. Namely because the glacier would not be reforming as predicted if GW was real ... now would it ...
The top of St. Helens gets a lot of snow. The open crater points north. The interior is shaded nearly year round. So what the hell is going to melt the snow accumulation? In the meantime the Cascadian Glaciers are all losing mass.

Goodbye to glaciers in Washington's North Cascades? | The Wilderness Society
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Old 07-06-2009, 06:05 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by RodISHI View Post
Imagine that.
Quote:
Study Says Glaciers Formed During a Very Warm Period
Published: January 11, 2008
OSLO (Reuters) — Giant glaciers formed about 90 million years ago during a warm period when alligators thrived in the Arctic, researchers said Thursday, calling into question the belief that all ice melts in a “super greenhouse” climate.

The researchers’ study, based on organic molecules in ocean sediments and chemicals in ancient fossil shells, indicated that there were ice sheets in Antarctica in parts of the Turonian period, one of the warmest times in history, when dinosaurs thrived..................................cont'

Quote:
Science News

Did Early Global Warming Divert A New Glacial Age?

Science Daily (Dec. 18, 2008) — The common wisdom is that the invention of the steam engine and the advent of the coal-fueled industrial age marked the beginning of human influence on global climate.
But gathering physical evidence, backed by powerful simulations on the world's most advanced computer climate models, is reshaping that view and lending strong support to the radical idea that human-induced climate change began not 200 years ago, but thousands of years ago with the onset of large-scale agriculture in Asia and extensive deforestation in Europe.

What's more, according to the same computer simulations, the cumulative effect of thousands of years of human influence on climate is preventing the world from entering a new glacial age, altering a clockwork rhythm of periodic cooling of the planet that extends back more than a million years.....
Quote:
Kingman Daily Miner Oct 7, 2001
Geologists Find More Than 100 New Glaciers Forming In National Park .
Previously, officials believed the park 60 miles northwest of Denver included 20 permanent ice and snow features, including six named glaciers. The new ...

Odd, that is exactly opposite what the people at the Park Service say.


Glaciers and Climate

Climate is the “average weather” in a location. Though climate actually refers to the entire state of the atmospheric system, it is commonly described by temperature or precipitation. Climate determines how much snow a glacier receives and how fast it melts. The part of the year when glaciers gain more ice than they lose is called the accumulation season. In Colorado, the accumulation season is usually from October to May. The part of the year when glaciers lose more ice than they gain is the ablation season, generally from June through September. During a cool, wet year, glaciers gain more snow than they lose, causing the glacier to thicken, and subsequently, advance. During warm, dry years, they melt more snow and ice than they receive, causing them to retreat.

Although glaciers always flow downhill, the idea of glacier “retreat” may give the impression that a glacier can move uphill. In fact, a glacier is in retreat when the rate of movement downhill cannot keep up with the rate of melting. The glacier is melting back faster than it is moving downhill, so it is said to “retreat”. By contrast, when a glacier advances, its downhill flow is greater than the melt at the terminus.


The rate of glacier response has to do with the volume of the glacier and the rate of mass exchange (accumulation and ablation of snow and ice). For example, for the same size glacier, small rates of mass exchange (like glaciers in polar regions) result in slow responses and high rates (like glaciers in the U.S.) cause fast responses. Smaller glaciers response more quickly than larger glaciers. The position, orientation, or elevation of a glacier affects the magnitude of glacier change in response to climate.


Because of their small size, glaciers at RMNP are very sensitive to fluctuations in temperature and respond quickly to warming or cooling. However, due to the locations of the basins in which they reside, most of their accumulation is due to the redistribution of snow by wind or by avalanching, and the accumulation rates on the glaciers can be many times higher than the seasonal snowfall. Because of this, the glaciers are relatively insensitive to variations in snowfall. Variations in glacier mass are caused by changes in summer temperatures from year to year, and perhaps changes in summer cloud cover. Annual measurements in the changes of the mass of Andrews Glacier can be related directly to summer temperature. Warmer summer temperatures melt more ice than cooler summer (4).

The glaciers at RMNP retreated during the first half of the twentieth century as a response to warming at the end of the Little Ice Age (a minor ice age extending from the 16th to the mid 19th century). Many of the glaciers reached a minimum size during the mid-1940s, and fluctuated around a slightly larger size during the 1950s and 1960s. They advanced somewhat through the 1970s and 1980s due to cooler summer temperatures. However since the 1990s almost all glaciers in RMNP have shown a retreat due to high rates of increasing summer temperatures, some shrinking past their historic minimum sizes from the 1940s (4). This pattern of twentieth century fluctuations in mass is similar to that seen by glaciers across North America and globally (5).
Glaciers of Rocky Mountain National Park - Glacier Basics
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Old 07-06-2009, 06:06 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Old Rocks View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by KittenKoder View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by k2skier View Post
Then why bring up an extreme anomaly, that has nothing to do with GW at all?

I don't buy into the chicken little we're all going to die (which we all are but that's another topic...), just common sense and sustainability.

You either bring this up from regurgitating and spewing righty talking points, or you're ignorant on Mt St Helen's.
Um ... actually it does disprove it in a round about manner. Namely because the glacier would not be reforming as predicted if GW was real ... now would it ...
The top of St. Helens gets a lot of snow. The open crater points north. The interior is shaded nearly year round. So what the hell is going to melt the snow accumulation? In the meantime the Cascadian Glaciers are all losing mass.

Goodbye to glaciers in Washington's North Cascades? | The Wilderness Society
Looks like we should all get ready for that endless summer

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Old 07-06-2009, 08:54 PM
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Looks like you should research a bit before you post.
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Old 07-06-2009, 11:52 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Old Rocks View Post
Looks like you should research a bit before you post.
Irony alert ... irony alert ... man your battle stations!
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