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  #196 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2008, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk View Post
Satellite photos don't lie.
Yes. As we know, satellite photos don't lie, so here is one from the University of Illinois comparing Arctic sea ice content today and 20 years ago.



There's one million fewer square kilometers of sea ice in the Arctic, but one million more square kilometers in the Antarctic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk View Post
Only people lie....

YOUR photo, on the other hand, is a drawing. You linked it from a website called worldwithoutwinter.com, which is part of a gay science fiction webring. I'm serious:
Quote:
Check out the webrings above and below for more. You’ll also find other gay author sites covering all types of gay fiction, including gay science fiction.
Not that there's anything wrong with that...
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  #197 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2008, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopGunna View Post
Yes. As we know, satellite photos don't lie, so here is one from the University of Illinois comparing Arctic sea ice content today and 20 years ago.



There's one million fewer square kilometers of sea ice in the Arctic, but one million more square kilometers in the Antarctic.



YOUR photo, on the other hand, is a drawing. You linked it from a website called worldwithoutwinter.com, which is part of a gay science fiction webring. I'm serious:


Not that there's anything wrong with that...
The three rules of lying, deny, deny, deny...


Arctic Sea Ice News & Analysis
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  #198 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2008, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk View Post
The three rules of lying, deny, deny, deny...


Arctic Sea Ice News & Analysis
Which is something you've obviously mastered....
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  #199 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2008, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
Which is something you've obviously mastered....
These photos are from NASA....


NASA - Top Story - RECENT WARMING OF ARCTIC MAY AFFECT WORLDWIDE CLIMATE - October 23, 2003
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  #200 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2008, 08:46 PM
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TopGunna, thanks for bringing up the University of Illinois, they have some good researchers....

Regardless of global warming, rising CO2 levels threaten marine life
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  #201 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2008, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk View Post
"Morison cautioned that while the recent decadal-scale changes in the circulation of the Arctic Ocean may not appear to be directly tied to global warming, most climate models predict the Arctic Oscillation will become even more strongly counterclockwise in the future. "The events of the 1990s may well be a preview of how the Arctic will respond over longer periods of time in a warming world," he said. "

JPL.NASA.GOV: News Releases

(THIS IS NASA AS WELL)

"A NASA-funded study found some climate models might be overestimating the amount of water vapor entering the atmosphere as the Earth warms. Since water vapor is the most important heat-trapping greenhouse gas in our atmosphere, some climate forecasts may be overestimating future temperature increases."

NASA - Top Story - SATELLITE FINDS WARMING "RELATIVE" TO HUMIDITY - March 15, 2004

(AND THIS ONE AS WELL)--Granted, it does loosley tie it to CO2, but by no means says it's the cause and most important greenhouse gas...
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  #202 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2008, 08:52 PM
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TopGunna, here's more good info from the University of Illinois...

Global warming may halt ocean circulation - UPI.com

Thanks for telling me about them!
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  #203 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2008, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
"Morison cautioned that while the recent decadal-scale changes in the circulation of the Arctic Ocean may not appear to be directly tied to global warming, most climate models predict the Arctic Oscillation will become even more strongly counterclockwise in the future. "The events of the 1990s may well be a preview of how the Arctic will respond over longer periods of time in a warming world," he said. "

JPL.NASA.GOV: News Releases

(THIS IS NASA AS WELL)

"A NASA-funded study found some climate models might be overestimating the amount of water vapor entering the atmosphere as the Earth warms. Since water vapor is the most important heat-trapping greenhouse gas in our atmosphere, some climate forecasts may be overestimating future temperature increases."

NASA - Top Story - SATELLITE FINDS WARMING "RELATIVE" TO HUMIDITY - March 15, 2004

(AND THIS ONE AS WELL)--Granted, it does loosley tie it to CO2, but by no means says it's the cause and most important greenhouse gas...
Those quotes are 4 years old....

Let's review shall we.....

California is experiencing its driest year on record. Over 800 square miles of California forests have burned so far, and the real fire season doesn't even start until late July. Most of the North Pole has melted. The level of CO2 in the atmosphere has risen by one third in the last 200 years. CO2 is now at the highest level ever recorded, and the Antarctic ice core record goes back 600,000 years. Every year we pump 8 billion metric tons of CO2 into the atmosphere, and that number is rising as China and India industrialize.
Most of the "scientists" who were global warming deniers turned out to be paid by Exxon and the Petroleum Institute. Two years ago Exxon realized they were wrong and stopped funding those scientists. Still, some people continue to parrot them. Even Bush the Lesser now believes in global warming.
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  #204 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2008, 09:10 PM
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NASA temperature data.....

Data @ NASA GISS: GISS Surface Temperature Analysis: Graphs
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  #205 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2008, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk View Post
Those quotes are 4 years old....

Let's review shall we.....

California is experiencing its driest year on record. Over 800 square miles of California forests have burned so far, and the real fire season doesn't even start until late July. Most of the North Pole has melted. The level of CO2 in the atmosphere has risen by one third in the last 200 years. CO2 is now at the highest level ever recorded, and the Antarctic ice core record goes back 600,000 years. Every year we pump 8 billion metric tons of CO2 into the atmosphere, and that number is rising as China and India industrialize.
Most of the "scientists" who were global warming deniers turned out to be paid by Exxon and the Petroleum Institute. Two years ago Exxon realized they were wrong and stopped funding those scientists. Still, some people continue to parrot them. Even Bush the Lesser now believes in global warming.

Sure anyone who dispels your myth is funded by Exxon.
While man made global warming cultist enjoy huge paychecks from the government through grants.

A government agency says that droughts aren't on the rise. Your reply to this, citing data from CA. LMFAO

CA makes up what less than .001 % of the worlds total area.

When shown wildfires are caused 4 out of 5 times by human carelessness. Your reply, you point out a statistical anomaly. Something that hasn't ever happened in CA. Which if your thoughts were supported by evidence then wildfires wouldn't just start popping up out of nowhere due to global warming. They would have been occuring at least the last 20 or so years.


Kirk.jpg------->Kirk
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  #206 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2008, 09:35 PM
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jreeves, thank you for making it so easy....

Global Warming Fuels U.S. Forest Fires | LiveScience
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  #207 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2008, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk View Post
jreeves, thank you for making it so easy....

Global Warming Fuels U.S. Forest Fires | LiveScience
Lmfao....
Center for Science and Public Policy - Southern California Wildfires and Global Warming: No Connection
Any sort of weather-related event that grows large enough to find its way into the national news is seemingly tagged with being a result of, or at least made worse by, anthropogenic global warming. The wildfires burning in southern California are no exception. National television news programs, major newspapers, and even some politicians have gotten in on the act and linked the ongoing wildfires in southern California to human-induced climate changes.
But, as is the case nearly every time, global warming probably has little is anything to do with the wildfires ablaze in southern California.

The major reason that global warming in being fingered in the southern California wildfires, besides the general all-bad-things-weather-related-are-caused-by-global-warming sentiment, is a paper by Anthony Westerling and colleagues that was published last summer in Science magazine. In that paper, Westerling et al. concluded that there was a big jump in wildfire frequency, size, intensity, and duration across the American West that was related to increasing spring and summer temperatures and earlier spring snowmelts. And for good measure, they pointed out that these were the types of changes that are expected and projected to occur with ever-increasing greenhouse gas concentrations (thanks to us humans).

But, the results and implications of that paper (for a critical review of that paper, see, The Fire This Time: More Perspective Needed) are not well-applied to fires in southern California. In fact, Westerling has authored several other papers that deal more directly with southern California fires, past, present and future.

Westerling describes the history of southern California wildfires, as well as the background conditions, both ecological and climatological, that lead to their occurrence in his 2004 paper, “Climate, Santa Ana Winds and Autumn Wildfires in Southern California.” The paper begins:


Wildfires periodically burn large areas of chaparral and adjacent woodlands in autumn and winter in southern California. These fires often occur in conjunction with Santa Ana weather events, which combine high winds and low humidity, and tend to follow a wet winter rainy season. Because conditions fostering large fall and winter wildfires in California are the result of large-scale patterns in atmospheric circulation, the same dangerous conditions are likely to occur over a wide area at the same time.

Furthermore, over a century of watershed reserve management and fire suppression have promoted fuel accumulations, helping to shape one of the most conflagration-prone environments in the world. Combined with a complex topography and a large human population, southern Californian ecology and climate pose a considerable physical and societal challenge to fire management.


In reviewing the history of wildfires there, Westerling notes:


Large wildfires in chaparral in the autumn and winter months are also not extraordinary events in southern California. They have occurred frequently during the last century. Moreover, charcoal records from Santa Barbara Channel sediments indicate the frequency of wildfires in the region has not changed significantly in the last 500 years.

As to the causes of the bad wildfire season of 2003 Westerling explains:


The severity of the immediate human impact of the October 2003 wildfires was exacerbated by the rapid growth of an extensive wildland-urban interface proximate to a population of nearly 20 million in southern California, where the population has more than doubled since 1950. The intensity of the fires and the severity of their ecological impact on the region’s forests were exacerbated by the long-term accumulation of fuels such as snags, logs, and heavy brush due to 20th-century fire suppression policies and watershed preservation efforts since the late 1800s.

Oh wait ....Lmao another Exxon employee right.....
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  #208 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2008, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jreeves View Post
Lmfao....
Center for Science and Public Policy - Southern California Wildfires and Global Warming: No Connection
Any sort of weather-related event that grows large enough to find its way into the national news is seemingly tagged with being a result of, or at least made worse by, anthropogenic global warming. The wildfires burning in southern California are no exception. National television news programs, major newspapers, and even some politicians have gotten in on the act and linked the ongoing wildfires in southern California to human-induced climate changes.
But, as is the case nearly every time, global warming probably has little is anything to do with the wildfires ablaze in southern California.

The major reason that global warming in being fingered in the southern California wildfires, besides the general all-bad-things-weather-related-are-caused-by-global-warming sentiment, is a paper by Anthony Westerling and colleagues that was published last summer in Science magazine. In that paper, Westerling et al. concluded that there was a big jump in wildfire frequency, size, intensity, and duration across the American West that was related to increasing spring and summer temperatures and earlier spring snowmelts. And for good measure, they pointed out that these were the types of changes that are expected and projected to occur with ever-increasing greenhouse gas concentrations (thanks to us humans).

But, the results and implications of that paper (for a critical review of that paper, see, The Fire This Time: More Perspective Needed) are not well-applied to fires in southern California. In fact, Westerling has authored several other papers that deal more directly with southern California fires, past, present and future.

Westerling describes the history of southern California wildfires, as well as the background conditions, both ecological and climatological, that lead to their occurrence in his 2004 paper, “Climate, Santa Ana Winds and Autumn Wildfires in Southern California.” The paper begins:


Wildfires periodically burn large areas of chaparral and adjacent woodlands in autumn and winter in southern California. These fires often occur in conjunction with Santa Ana weather events, which combine high winds and low humidity, and tend to follow a wet winter rainy season. Because conditions fostering large fall and winter wildfires in California are the result of large-scale patterns in atmospheric circulation, the same dangerous conditions are likely to occur over a wide area at the same time.

Furthermore, over a century of watershed reserve management and fire suppression have promoted fuel accumulations, helping to shape one of the most conflagration-prone environments in the world. Combined with a complex topography and a large human population, southern Californian ecology and climate pose a considerable physical and societal challenge to fire management.


In reviewing the history of wildfires there, Westerling notes:


Large wildfires in chaparral in the autumn and winter months are also not extraordinary events in southern California. They have occurred frequently during the last century. Moreover, charcoal records from Santa Barbara Channel sediments indicate the frequency of wildfires in the region has not changed significantly in the last 500 years.

As to the causes of the bad wildfire season of 2003 Westerling explains:


The severity of the immediate human impact of the October 2003 wildfires was exacerbated by the rapid growth of an extensive wildland-urban interface proximate to a population of nearly 20 million in southern California, where the population has more than doubled since 1950. The intensity of the fires and the severity of their ecological impact on the region’s forests were exacerbated by the long-term accumulation of fuels such as snags, logs, and heavy brush due to 20th-century fire suppression policies and watershed preservation efforts since the late 1800s.

Oh wait ....Lmao another Exxon employee right.....
You love those Exxon butt boys. You just can't stay away from them.

2002: Center for Science and Public Policy Started with Funds from ExxonMobil
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  #209 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2008, 11:31 PM
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jreeves, are you being paid by the Petroleum Institute?
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  #210 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2008, 11:48 PM
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From the link you quoted....

"The increase in large wildfires appears to be another part of a chain of reactions to climate warming," said study co-author Dan Cayan, director of Scripps Institution of Oceanography's Climate Research Division. "The recent ramp-up is likely, in part, caused by natural fluctuations, but evidence is mounting that anthropogenic effects have been contributing to warmer winters and springs in recent decades."
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