Idiots. How can they have a plan when they don't even know what the cause is?

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“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing” - Edmund Burke

They do not even know how much man contributes either. Evidence is overwhelming but ignored that the SUN is a big cause. I mean come on EVERY planet has increased in temperature but we are to believe MAN is the cause on earth.

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The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd. Indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.

-Bertrand Russell

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable

-Laurence J. Peters

I never said that you had no right to have an opinion. I just said that it was, in fact, worth nothing.

-Maineman ( on 12 June 2007)

do you have some data showing increases in the temperatures on Mercury? Uranus? Saturn? I've not seem them.

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"In a rich society, no one should be allowed to suffer from deprivation such as homelessness, starvation and illness. This ideal is essential, not simply as a matter of human good, but as the price we pay for a measure of domestic tranquility. "

John Kenneth Galbraith

It's all about the $$$. They want to spend something like $160 billion in x # of years, with the US contributing over $80 b. Of course the UN with their trusty shredders, would control all dollars. We needed to pull out of UN, yesterday.

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"We are fighting today for our life, for our liberty, for our all, we cannot go on being led as we are. Somehow or other, we must get into the Government men who can match our enemies in fighting spirit, in daring, in resolution and in thirst for victory."~Leo Amery 1940, while staring at Chamberlain

You know folks, you have to get behind this. I don't know why the ideological opposition, no-one is trying to bankrupt you, just trying to keep the poor old planet from cooking!

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I've seen the wild horses, I've heard the bull roarers

Get behind WHAT?

I'm STILL awaiting a defnitive answer on what is causing global warming. THEN you can talk to me about fixing it, IF it can be fixed.

You don't know why there's opposition? Real simple. First the horse, THEN the cart.

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“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing” - Edmund Burke

I know. Somehow I have deja vu remembering the warnings on saccarine, coffee, chocolate, aspertame, eggs, apples...

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"We are fighting today for our life, for our liberty, for our all, we cannot go on being led as we are. Somehow or other, we must get into the Government men who can match our enemies in fighting spirit, in daring, in resolution and in thirst for victory."~Leo Amery 1940, while staring at Chamberlain

If you were shown the definitive answer, how would you know it was such?

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I've seen the wild horses, I've heard the bull roarers

Your forgot sugar, alcohol, tobacco and lots of other things that affect individuals. This is about something that affects our total environment. I mean I can choose to ignore warnings about chocolate (and you can put money on it that I will ) but when it comes to the total environment then I think we owe it to each other to take notice as it will affect us all and of course our descendants.

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I've seen the wild horses, I've heard the bull roarers

Here's my problem with the 'models.' Our NOAH is like among the best weather projection organizations out there. I think even Podunk, AK uses Doppler. Can they predict within 2 degrees the absolute temperature 48 hours from now? Based on what are we to curb our industries, lifestyles? Using data that goes back about 100 years, that used far less precise measures than we are using today?

It just doesn't make sense other than, "It's for the children..." *angst*

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"We are fighting today for our life, for our liberty, for our all, we cannot go on being led as we are. Somehow or other, we must get into the Government men who can match our enemies in fighting spirit, in daring, in resolution and in thirst for victory."~Leo Amery 1940, while staring at Chamberlain

In Australia, Rudd, a Socialist, was recently elected running on a platform of socializing the means of production and distribution, pulling combat soldiers out of Iraq, signing the old DOA Kyoto protocol, and rolling back the last decade's labor and free market reforms.

It's actually for the whales but since the Japanese are going to kill them all it doesn't matter <very heavy sarcasm

I think, with all due respect to the meteorological folks in Podunk, AK who are probably freezing their arses off about now, that the difference is between "weather" and "climate". One is variable but reasonably predictable in short to medium ranges and the other is not so variable but can be predicted to change based on long-term factors and probably by extrapolation based on previous long-term observations. Fact is we're (and Aus is the largest producer of CO2 emissions per capita) having a deleterious effect on climate and it's getting to the point of being non-reversible. I'm not arguing for a total shut-down of civilisation as we know it, I'm really cheesed off with some of the more nutty climate extremists who want me to live in a bloody tree house in the jungle but I will take heed of sober scientists who are not enviro-wankers.

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I've seen the wild horses, I've heard the bull roarers

Rubbish. Rudd isn't a socialist. There'll be no socialising of the means of production (remember the coda to the original part of the platform, you pointed it out to me). As for the rest of your allegations, yes, out of Iraq when able, good; ratify a protocol we've already signed, good; sorting out the exploitative industrial relations reforms so that the bosses don't get to rule us, good. All good and we're looking forward to the PM and new government making sure all is well for us in a time of instability which is just around the corner (our current account deficit stinks). And Bali is good, Penny Wong and the PM and I think Peter Garrett will be going. No-one wants to see the end of progress, we just want to see that we're able to think about progress by sorting out the climate change issues.

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I've seen the wild horses, I've heard the bull roarers

Well I'll not call you a nutter. I call myself a skeptic, partially based on the likes of Al Gore spouting off on things he really knows little about, scaring the bejeezus out of many, while making lots and lots of green on his carbon credit programs. Then there is the fact that quite a few climatologists just don't agree with the science and not all of them are from the US.

On the other hand, do I drive a car that gets reasonable mileage? Do I keep the tires and upkeep where they should be? Do I drive more than I really need? (well sometimes) Other than that one exception, yes. On the other hand, will I just willy nilly vote for someone who wants to enforce an international protocol on US businesses and pay for credits when we don't meet those standards, ala France et al? No.

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"We are fighting today for our life, for our liberty, for our all, we cannot go on being led as we are. Somehow or other, we must get into the Government men who can match our enemies in fighting spirit, in daring, in resolution and in thirst for victory."~Leo Amery 1940, while staring at Chamberlain

Rudd is a self-described Socialist (must I quote again his 2003 remarks that he is an "old fashioned Christian Socialist?") and he is the leader of a political party that contains Socialist objectives as part of it constitution. Should we not believe that Rudd represents the constitution of the Australian Labor Party? I do not think the members of the party would be pleased to hear that. From the 2007 Australian Labor Party Constitution: "The Australian Labor Party is a democratic socialist party and has the objective of the democratic socialisation of industry, production, distribution and exchange, to the extent necessary to eliminate exploitation and other anti-social features in these fields." That does not look like "rubbish" to me; it looks like Socialism plain and simple. You and Australia voted for that sentence, despite the fact that until I pointed it out to you after the election you did not think it was still a part of the ALP's constitution. And the added clause "to the extent necessary to eliminate exploitation and other anti-social features in these fields" is a miracle of obfuscation. Who gets to define these exploitations and anti-social features? The socialist ALP? Regarding Kyoto, one can only hope that the Australia's new PM reconsiders his ill-advised campaign promise. Signing the Kyoto protocol, where China and India are exempted, is meaningless. Clinton signed the Kyoto Protocol and it was shot down in the US Senate 97 to 0.