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Old 11-09-2009, 12:54 PM
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Oil

USGS Release: 3 to 4.3 Billion Barrels of Technically Recoverable Oil Assessed in North Dakota and Montana’s Bakken Formation—25 Times More Than 1995 Estimate— (4/10/2008 2:25:36 PM)

interesting link....below is written by a friend...

about 6 months ago I was watching a news program on oil and one of the Forbes Bros. was the guest. This is out of context, but this is the actual question as asked. The host said to Forbes, "I am going to ask you a direct question and I would like a direct answer, how much oil does the U.S. have in the ground." Forbes did not miss a beat, he said, "more than all the Middle East put together." Please read below.


The U. S. Geological Service issued a report in April ('08) that only scientists and oil men knew was coming, but man was it big. It was a revised report (hadn't been updated since '95) on how much oil was in this area of the western 2/3 of North Dakota ; western South Dakota ; and extreme eastern Montana .... check THIS out:

The Bakken is the largest domestic oil discovery since Alaska 's Prudhoe Bay , and has the potential to eliminate all American dependence on foreign oil. The Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates it at 503 billion barrels. Even if just 10% of the oil is recoverable... at $107 a barrel, we're looking at a resource base worth more than $5.3 trillion.

'When I first briefed legislators on this, you could practically see their jaws hit the floor. They had no idea..' says Terry Johnson, the Montana Legislature's financial analyst.

'This sizable find is now the highest-producing onshore oil field found in the past 56 years' reports, The Pittsburgh Post Gazette. It's a formation known as the Williston Basin , but is more commonly referred to as the 'Bakken.' And it stretches from Northern Montana, through North Dakota and into Canada . For years, U. S. oil exploration has been considered a dead end. Even the 'Big Oil' companies gave up searching for major oil wells decades ago.. However, a recent technological breakthrough has opened up the Bakken's massive reserves.... and we now have access of up to 500 billion barrels. And because this is light, sweet oil, those billions of barrels will cost Americans just $16 PER BARREL!

That's enough crude to fully fuel the American economy for 2041 years straight.
THAT'S RIGHT. 2,041 YEARS STRAIGHT!!!!
2. And if THAT didn't throw you on the floor, then this next one should - because it's from TWO YEARS AGO!

U. S. Oil Discovery- Largest Reserve in the World!
Stansberry Report Online - 4/20/2006

Hidden 1,000 feet beneath the surface of the Rocky Mountains lies the largest untapped oil reserve in the world. It is more than 2 TRILLION barrels. On August 8, 2005 President Bush mandated its extraction. In three and a half years of high oil prices none has been extracted. With this motherload of oil why are we still fighting over off-shore drilling?

They reported this stunning news: We have more oil inside our borders, than all the other proven reserves on earth. Here are the official estimates:

- 8-times as much oil as Saudi Arabia
- 18-times as much oil as Iraq
- 21-times as much oil as Kuwait
- 22-times as much oil as Iran
- 500-times as much oil as Yemen
- and it's all right here in the Western United States .

HOW can this BE? HOW can we NOT BE extracting this? Because the environmentalists and others have blocked all efforts to help America become independent of foreign oil! Again, we are letting a small group of people dictate our lives and our economy.....WHY?

James Bartis, lead researcher with the study says we've got more oil in this very compact area than the entire Middle East -more than 2 TRILLION barrels untapped. That's more than all the proven oil reserves of crude oil in the world today, reports The Denver Post.

Don't think 'OPEC' will drop its price - even with this find? Think again! It's all about the competitive marketplace, - it has to. Think OPEC just might be funding the environmentalists?
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Old 11-09-2009, 01:03 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by manu1959 View Post
USGS Release: 3 to 4.3 Billion Barrels of Technically Recoverable Oil Assessed in North Dakota and Montana’s Bakken Formation—25 Times More Than 1995 Estimate— (4/10/2008 2:25:36 PM)

interesting link....below is written by a friend...

about 6 months ago I was watching a news program on oil and one of the Forbes Bros. was the guest. This is out of context, but this is the actual question as asked. The host said to Forbes, "I am going to ask you a direct question and I would like a direct answer, how much oil does the U.S. have in the ground." Forbes did not miss a beat, he said, "more than all the Middle East put together." Please read below.


The U. S. Geological Service issued a report in April ('08) that only scientists and oil men knew was coming, but man was it big. It was a revised report (hadn't been updated since '95) on how much oil was in this area of the western 2/3 of North Dakota ; western South Dakota ; and extreme eastern Montana .... check THIS out:

The Bakken is the largest domestic oil discovery since Alaska 's Prudhoe Bay , and has the potential to eliminate all American dependence on foreign oil. The Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates it at 503 billion barrels. Even if just 10% of the oil is recoverable... at $107 a barrel, we're looking at a resource base worth more than $5.3 trillion.

'When I first briefed legislators on this, you could practically see their jaws hit the floor. They had no idea..' says Terry Johnson, the Montana Legislature's financial analyst.

'This sizable find is now the highest-producing onshore oil field found in the past 56 years' reports, The Pittsburgh Post Gazette. It's a formation known as the Williston Basin , but is more commonly referred to as the 'Bakken.' And it stretches from Northern Montana, through North Dakota and into Canada . For years, U. S. oil exploration has been considered a dead end. Even the 'Big Oil' companies gave up searching for major oil wells decades ago.. However, a recent technological breakthrough has opened up the Bakken's massive reserves.... and we now have access of up to 500 billion barrels. And because this is light, sweet oil, those billions of barrels will cost Americans just $16 PER BARREL!

That's enough crude to fully fuel the American economy for 2041 years straight.
THAT'S RIGHT. 2,041 YEARS STRAIGHT!!!!
2. And if THAT didn't throw you on the floor, then this next one should - because it's from TWO YEARS AGO!

U. S. Oil Discovery- Largest Reserve in the World!
Stansberry Report Online - 4/20/2006

Hidden 1,000 feet beneath the surface of the Rocky Mountains lies the largest untapped oil reserve in the world. It is more than 2 TRILLION barrels. On August 8, 2005 President Bush mandated its extraction. In three and a half years of high oil prices none has been extracted. With this motherload of oil why are we still fighting over off-shore drilling?

They reported this stunning news: We have more oil inside our borders, than all the other proven reserves on earth. Here are the official estimates:

- 8-times as much oil as Saudi Arabia
- 18-times as much oil as Iraq
- 21-times as much oil as Kuwait
- 22-times as much oil as Iran
- 500-times as much oil as Yemen
- and it's all right here in the Western United States .

HOW can this BE? HOW can we NOT BE extracting this? Because the environmentalists and others have blocked all efforts to help America become independent of foreign oil! Again, we are letting a small group of people dictate our lives and our economy.....WHY?

James Bartis, lead researcher with the study says we've got more oil in this very compact area than the entire Middle East -more than 2 TRILLION barrels untapped. That's more than all the proven oil reserves of crude oil in the world today, reports The Denver Post.

Don't think 'OPEC' will drop its price - even with this find? Think again! It's all about the competitive marketplace, - it has to. Think OPEC just might be funding the environmentalists?
I wasn't aware of the oil that existed but it doesn't suprise me-----I'm guessing the public is a pawn caught between some energy barons that use politics for wealth.
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Old 11-09-2009, 01:11 PM
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That's fuckin' AWESOME!!!

And it's in the MIDDLE of the country so it would be easy to get it from place to place.

But what happens in 2041 years from now?

Do we really want to burden our children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children with a lack of oil?
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Old 11-09-2009, 01:12 PM
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Old 11-09-2009, 01:14 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by manu1959 View Post
Hidden 1,000 feet beneath the surface of the Rocky Mountains lies the largest untapped oil reserve in the world. It is more than 2 TRILLION barrels.
That would be like a small creature living on the surface of an orange, and discovering that just a little ways below the peel, there was enough orange juice to last for 100,000,000,000 years!
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Old 11-09-2009, 01:15 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by xotoxi View Post
That's fuckin' AWESOME!!!

And it's in the MIDDLE of the country so it would be easy to get it from place to place.

But what happens in 2041 years from now?

Do we really want to burden our children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children with a lack of oil?
We want global warming to prevent them from experiencing the next ice age.
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Old 11-09-2009, 01:28 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by xotoxi View Post
That's fuckin' AWESOME!!!

And it's in the MIDDLE of the country so it would be easy to get it from place to place.

But what happens in 2041 years from now?

Do we really want to burden our children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children with a lack of oil?
Another Moody Blues fan...
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Old 11-09-2009, 01:32 PM
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People! People!

Where's the respect for all the velicoraptors who died oh so long ago to become this "fossil fuels"?

Our national energy policy can only be described as Economic suicide. If the next Administration continues this disastrous course we should hit Ctrl Alt Del twice and reboot the government.
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Old 11-09-2009, 08:15 PM
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You people are so full of shit and misinformation. The Bakken will never be more than a minor producer. Welcome, but not anything to shout about.

The Oil Drum | The Bakken Formation: How Much Will It Help?

If 500 million barrels turns out to be the ultimate recovery, the recovery factor would range from 0.13% to 0.25% of estimated oil in place. This very low percentage recovery of the estimated oil in place is not unreasonable if one considers that many of the more marginal areas of the field are likely to be deemed sub-economic and will never be drilled and produced. Technology improvements that will inevitably be made during an era of high energy prices will undoubtedly render some of this more marginal oil recoverable, but the total recovery is still likely to be low.

The USGS numbers are notable for their apparent certainty of the size of the undiscovered resources. The p5/p95 ratio is one measure of the spread or uncertainty of a probabilistic estimate. The USGS oil numbers show ratios of 1.2 to 1.9, which is quite surprising. These low ratios imply that the USGS is highly confident in their recoverable resource estimates. One would have thought that a 5X or 10X spread in this ratio would be more plausible considering that 85% to 90% of the resources has not yet been discovered. Perhaps when the detailed report is released, the logic behind this narrow range will be revealed. In the mean time, I remain highly skeptical that such a large resource with an unknown variability of fracture density, porosity, and recovery factor, and other factors, can be quantified with such precision.

If we could actually produce 3.6 billion barrels of undiscovered oil forecast at the P50 level by USGS, how much would this equate to? The US uses about 7.6 billion barrels of oil products a year, according to EIA data. This is equivalent to just under six month's US oil use, spread over a very long period, probably 20 years or more. If total production amounts to only 500 million barrels, as I have suggested, this would equate to about 23 days worth of United States oil usage, spread over many, many years.

Looking at future production another way, the recent peak in production has been 75,000 barrels of oil per day (discussed in more detail below). Even if operators are able to triple this amount, the resulting production of 225,000 barrels a day (which would be a considerable challenge), will amount to only about 1.1% of US oil consumption, assuming the US uses about 20.7 barrels of oil a day, based on EIA data.


If we can reach 225,000 barrels of oil per day, the history of Bakken suggest this level would be short-lived - the peak production will probably last for a year or less - because as we shall see below, total Bakken production can be expected to decline to 50% or less of its peak rate within a few years, because of the steep decline rate of individual wells.
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Old 11-09-2009, 08:57 PM
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O.R., a half billion barrels isn't chump change. "Minor producers" add up. Your quoted article does shed new light on the subject but I don't think it exactly trivializes the project.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:16 PM
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There's already 25 times more there than we thought who know what else awaits once we start actually drilling
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:45 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Mr. H. View Post
O.R., a half billion barrels isn't chump change. "Minor producers" add up. Your quoted article does shed new light on the subject but I don't think it exactly trivializes the project.
Still- nothing wrong with doing a little forward-thinking, and getting a windmill for the ol' ranch house..

500,000,000 is NOTHING. It is not enough to cook on a stove for your family, and keep warm, for a full month. Do you understand that, Mr H? It is NOTHING.

Even if we do find a few trillion.. It is still barely enough to keep afloat with.
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Old 11-09-2009, 10:15 PM
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Anything we can do to get off foreign oil is a good move. If we buy less on the foreign market, oil prices will drop. Any drop in oil prices would help to boost the economy. If oil companies want to drill there, I say let them drill.
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Old 11-09-2009, 11:02 PM
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mdn2000 kicks locomotives off the tracks mdn2000 kicks locomotives off the tracks mdn2000 kicks locomotives off the tracks mdn2000 kicks locomotives off the tracks mdn2000 kicks locomotives off the tracks mdn2000 kicks locomotives off the tracks mdn2000 kicks locomotives off the tracks
First let me say Old Crock is a complete moron, I will provide the proof.

Oil, you know why we dont use our oil, its heavy crude, it costs much more to refine. Saudi Oil is the best oil in the world because its the cheapest to refine, light weet crude. We should continue to use all the Middle Eastern oil until there is no more, its our right. Suck on that liberal fools.

We will never develop our oil when the profit in middle eastern oil is so great

Thats right, lets use all the oil in the Middle East, lets also take that marxist chavez's oil, lets leave the tyrants with nothing than they will have no power. I know the pacifiist will cry that we will get killed but not if we kill them first. The only problem with our wars of late is that we have not practised total war, get rid of the lawyers and the psycho doctors and just take the oil, take the oil for fun, the Arab respects strenght, as long as we fight like weaklings the Arabs will not respect us, if we destroy all who oppose the Arabs will gladly be our freinds, its in their nature.

Here is an Arab proverb; If you are weak you dont deserve our help, if you are strong you dont need our help

The stronger we fight, the weaker Allah is, the Arab beleif is Allah commands all, if we win it was Allah's will. Not all Arabs are zealots so many will see our strength as an indication that there is no Allah and that the christian god of Jesus is the true god, many will convert, many convert every day and this is the dirty secret of the world, the more successful we are the less Moslems beleive in Islam and thus convert to christianity.

As for old crock, old crock has no idea what he posts, one example here to show Old Crock does not understand or read his links and sources. Why should we follow an old crock link if old crock has not read the link or even understand what the source states.

Quote: Originally Posted by mdn2000 View Post
Here is a link to one source showing that Old Crock posted an old article that is irrelevant.

Quote: Originally Posted by Old Rocks View Post
Not a pipe dream, either. Already being done successfully.

http://geoheat.oit.edu/bulletin/bull21-2/art1.pdf

On January 31, 1999, CalEnergy Operating Corp.
(CalEnergy) unveiled a $400 million expansion of their
geothermal power complex on the shores of the Salton Sea in
southern California’s Imperial Valley. The new construction
includes nearly 60 megawatts (MW) of new geothermal electrical
capacity, and a unique project to “mine” commercialgrade
zinc from geothermal brine produced for power
generation. CalEnergy is a subsidiary of Mid-American
Energy Holdings Co. (Des Moines, IA).
CalEnergy currently operates eight geothermal power
plants with a capacity of 288 net MW at the Salton Sea.
Construction underway for completion by late-July includes
Unit 5, a 49-MW facility that will utilize high-temperature
waste brine from four of the company’s existing power plants
to fuel the minerals recovery project and produce electricity.
In addition, a 10-MW turbine will be on-line by mid-March to
upgrade power production at CalEnergy’s Del Ranch and
Vulcan power plants. Construction companies heading up the
projects include Stone & Webster Engineering Corp. (Denver,
CO) and Kvaener U.S., Inc. (San Ramon, CA), which are
subcontracting work to local firms.
Funded entirely by CalEnergy, the $200-million
mineral recovery project will produce 30,000 metric tonnes of
99.99-percent pure zinc annually for Cominco Ltd. under a
contract signed last September.


Quote:
The zinc recovery project was put online in 2002,
but was shut down in 2004 due to technical problems
Quote:
In 2002, a zinc-extraction plant was completed in the
Imperial Valley of California. It used electricity from
geothermal power plants for the recovery of metal from
geothermal brines (Clutter, 2000). The $400-million zinc
project by MidAmerican Energy Holding Co. was supposed
to extract 30,000 tonnes of zinc annually. The wastewater
from eight power plants, having 600 ppm of zinc was
utilized. Unfortunately, the plant, which ran until 2004,
produced less than 50% of capacity and lost $69 million on
the project (GRC, 2004d). It is now shut down and being
dismantled due to poor economics and technical problems.
MidAmerican is now looking at silica extraction.
There are more problems with the unreliable Geothermal energy, imagine a geothermal power plant producing such a tiny amount of power having an uncontollable event. The uncontrollable event was the brine eating through a 48" pipe until it literally explodes spilling toxic brine all over the imperial valley's Asparagus fields.

Quote:
On July 10, 2003, the Salton Sea IV Project’s 40 megawatt turbine went out of service due to an uncontrollable force event.
Such uncontrollable force event ended, and the Salton Sea IV Project’s turbine returned to service, on September 17, 2003.
Edison failed to recognize the uncontrollable force event and, as such, has not paid amounts otherwise due and owing under
the Salton Sea IV power purchase agreement totaling $2.5 million. Salton Sea Power Generation, L.P., with Fish Lake Power
LLC, owner of the Salton Sea IV Project, served notices of error on Edison for such unpaid amounts
So from a "win, win" to a multi-million dollar loss, Old Crock I must say if you prove anything its that Green Energy is too expensive.

Hey, check out the amount of time this power plant was down, Old Crock you did not calculate this time into your costs either. Looks to me that Geothermal is too expensive and unreliable.

Now how about how much energy and what types does it take to produce one ton of fiberglass.

Last edited by mdn2000; 11-09-2009 at 11:08 PM.
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