excerpt ---

The "progressive" Barack Obama that many supporters imagine is itching to break free once his corporate host's body is securely in the White House, remains dormant. Not even the groans of finance capital's collapse can waken him - a strong indication that no such progressive inner Obama exists.

Certainly the progressive Obama was nowhere to be found when the candidate endorsed the $700-plus billion "cash for trash" Wall Street bailout. So eager was Obama to "save" the bankers, he forgot which party he was supposed to belong to and offered to allow Bush Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson to keep his job in an Obama administration. Although the offer was coached in terms of facilitating a smooth "transition" from one regime to another, it is yet another telling indication that, in January, the baton will essentially be passed from one finance capital team wearing red shorts to another finance capital team in blue.
blackagendareport.com - Obama and the Derivatives Merchants

I have no doubt that Obama is going to win .. after all, he isn't running against anyone credible .. but if anyone thinks he's is going to bring "change" to the White House .. I've got a Bridge to Nowhere to sell you.

In fact, I find that an appropriate characterization of him .. Barack Obama, the bridge to nowhere.

... and yes I know, he's the messiah and Obama supporters don't want to hear it.

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It is "society" which provides man with food, clothing, a home, the tools of work, language, the forms of thought, and most of the content of thought; his life is made possible through the labor and the accomplishments of the many millions past and present who are all hidden behind the small word "society."
-- Albert Einstein: Why Socialism

BAC - I know you know this but let's call it my attempt at Socratic irony.

Obama is not a socialist, despite the condemnation of the wingnut rookery.

Obama will do nothing to disturb the present class-based system of the US.

The best anyone can expect from Obama is amelioration of the worst aspects of the prevailing social situation.

So, the wingnuts who are shitting their pants that they massive wealth is about to be taken from them by a rampaging revolutionary who would make Robin Hood look like Ebeneezer Scrooge can calm down.

Won't happen.

But what might happen, as I said, is a reduction in the total misery of the nation.

But as always in politics, even a small move forward is at least a move forward.

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I've seen the wild horses, I've heard the bull roarers

I think there is some irony in the fact that if Obama was a hardcore socialist (and he's not as anyone who has read his books would know) the right would have much less to worry about if it had not been for the broad expanse of executive power set as precedent by the current administration. A constitutional executive branch would be much more handicapped trying to usher in a "secret socialist conspiracy" by Barak O'Strawman.

Yes, and with the U.S. it's like a rather large bus. It moves forward slowly, and shifts right or left tend to be pretty mild, otherwise we might tip over.

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Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid. Thought is great and swift and free, the light of the world, and the chief glory of man.

- Bertrand Russell

It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry.

- Thomas Paine

I'm a gradualist. I only look cranky when place up against a fuckwit rightwingnut.

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I've seen the wild horses, I've heard the bull roarers

I just love the way that some folks love to characterize support for Obama as some kind of messianic adoration.

Do you honest conservatives really believe that the people planning on voting against McCain's platforms think Obama is the second coming or something?

I think Diuretic described most of our expectations fairly well:

The thing I find disturbing when I read on this board is the apparent disconnect between what most people write, and how they are characterized by those reading their words.

People who descibe themselves and liberals and people who descirbe themselve as conservatives appear to me to be more on the same page than not.

The intelligent (as opposed to the blind partisans) on both sides of the aisle seem to understand that BOTH PARTIES are merely different squads on the SAME TEAM.

Yet despite the millions of words we have written here, we still find that blind partisans want to characterize us (of both sides) as being completely clueless about how similar both parties really are, as we have seem, for example, in this economic plan which bails out bankers at the expense of all of us.

Can't we disagree where we disagree without wildly overstating the others' positions to make them seem completely inane?

Apparently not.

Apparently the continuous litany of partisan blather that we're ALL EXPOSED TO by the hateful talking heads on the media, that constant stream of hateful propaganda which I believe is designed to keep Americans ever at one another's throats, works so damned well that even when we express our views to each other every damned day, we fail to note how similarly we view the corruption of the two party system.

True conservatives are NOT the enemy of American way of life. They are and have alwyas been defenders of that system

Likewise true liberals have always been defending our nation.

The sooner we acknowlege that there is a difference between the liberal mindset and the conservative, but we also acknowlege that NEITHER PARTY IS TRULY CONSERVATIVE OR LIBERAL and certainly neither stands for what they pretend to stand for, but instead that both parties are simply an insiders scam, one designed to keep the status quo which is basically fucking over the American people, they sooner we can break the monopoly of the two party sham.

Yes of course there are differences between liberalism and conservatism.

But comparing our differences to that of CONGRESS and how our goverment works, we see that we are far more allied with each other, than we are with the governement/private monied interest cabal which controls our nation.

Obama - we - need to be realists. Business and the markets in and off themselves are not inherently bad, and we sure as hell don't want a Maoist revolution. Change has to be gradual and include the powerful. The republicans have granted them too much freedom to fluck over the populace but returning to a kinder, gentler nation will take time. Look only at all the right wingnuts who still think deregulation, corporations, and the free market are the holy trinity.


Taming the Savage Market

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"We have an obligation and a responsibility to be investing in our students and our schools. We must make sure that people who have the grades, the desire and the will, but not the money, can still get the best education possible." Barack Obama

I think there's no return to that fictional kinder etc nation. It didn't exist. It exists in the future. Same goes for my country. We are trapped in what we are right now. We need to break out from that to something we could and should be. References to the past are poison. Regression is not the answer, it's snake oil. All of us need to move forwards to what we want to be, not what we thought we were, because what we were was not what we thought we were at all. It's anathema. Forward, only forward.

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I've seen the wild horses, I've heard the bull roarers

Sensible approach.

Lacks details and details are where liberalism and conservatism most often disagree.

The saner of us on both sides seem to want the same outcomes (a stable economically healthy society with liberty and justice for all) but how we arrive at that outcome is where we have problems.

And it is in that argument between liberalism and conservatism where the talking heads insinuate lies about both liuberals and conservatives, and the terminally dense latch onto those lies and cling to them for dear life.

We would ALL like a world where there are white hats and black hats, and we can all know which is which.

Sadly we live in a world rendered in infinite shades of grays.

I agree with everything you've said here including that there may be some reduction in misery. I absolutely agree.

However, there is one thing life has taught me living in the US .. Rights are determined by what you can demand, not by what is just, fair, honest, humane, civil, or what Jesus would do. If you cannot demand it, it is not your right. Civil Rights for African-Americans did not happen until we demanded them. Waiting on "good" people to stop the horror did not work .. it did not work for hundreds of years.

From my perspective, Americans are an invented people .. easily controlled, easily fooled. We have been conditioned to settle for "lessor evil" and feel good placebos that are meaningless. We demand nothing of our politicians .. thus they ignore us .. not just African-Americans, they ignore all of us.

It does not take rocket science genius to ascertain that America has become a plutocracy. The American government and our military have been reduced to mere extensions of American business, the American people reduced to just the batteries that make the plutocratic engine run .. and because of it, we teeter on disaster.

I don't settle for feel good placebos or lessor evil. I believe in speaking the truth about our condition and I do not see the enemy as some guy with a turban on his head thousands of miles away from our shores. What is destroying this country wears a Brooks Brothers suit and he can be found on Wall Street. It's an inescapable truth that becomes more apparent everyday .. but is a truth that most Americans have no ability to even recognize. Cognitive dissonance keeps us looking out the window for enemies when in fact we should be looking in the mirror.

I also understand the desperation many Americans feel about getting away from the Bush era .. but looking to someone who is controlled by the exact same forces Bush is, is in itself, an act of desperation.

The invasion of Iraq was a corporate war and in the process we mass-murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent people. We melted babies with white phosporus .. melted their skin right off the bodies while they were still alive. Yet, you'll hear no outrage about any of the atrocities we've committed in the name of profit. You won't hear it because we simply don't care.

During Obama's time in office we'll be engaging in more corporate wars under the guise of chasing ghosts. We'll be dropping huge bombs on the heads of more innocent people, shredding more children .. and you won't hear a peep about it from most Americans. There is a very good reason why anti-americanism has become a religion .. a growing religion shared by most people around the world .. not just arabs. We are considered the most dangerous nation on the planet .. and the truth is, we are dangerous.

Simply put my brother, I am not a swallower, nor am I allied to swallowers.

Obama is the hand clapping nose in the air feel good placebo many Americans are clamoring for as they attempt to run away from Bush .. but they're running in sand going nowhere. Time will tell who has more clarity about this bridge to nowhere.

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It is "society" which provides man with food, clothing, a home, the tools of work, language, the forms of thought, and most of the content of thought; his life is made possible through the labor and the accomplishments of the many millions past and present who are all hidden behind the small word "society."
-- Albert Einstein: Why Socialism

I agree with much of what you say .. in fact, I've been saying the same thing .. however, I'm not a partisan, not a liberal or conservative .. but I can clearly see where the tag "messianic adoration" comes from. Many Obama supporters strike a pose of "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evi.l" Any critique of Obama, no matter how well grounded in fact, is considered an outrageous attack and people should just leave him alone, let him do whatever he thinks he needs to do. Obama becomes more important than issues. That, in my opinion, is messianic adoration, not critical thinking.

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It is "society" which provides man with food, clothing, a home, the tools of work, language, the forms of thought, and most of the content of thought; his life is made possible through the labor and the accomplishments of the many millions past and present who are all hidden behind the small word "society."
-- Albert Einstein: Why Socialism

Incrementalism (gradualism) is the very nature of politics .. but it doesn't work in time of crisis. America is in crisis and democracy has been rendered almost useless.

There is a giant gaping hole in the concept of democracy .. it's called money. When enough money is injected into a democracy, it becaomes what we have become, a plutocracy.

Either America rights itself and charts a new corse or we will simply follow the footsteps of past empires and implode.

I don't really believe we have the capacity to right ourselves .. but I have children, and grandchildren .. so I continue to fight for them.

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It is "society" which provides man with food, clothing, a home, the tools of work, language, the forms of thought, and most of the content of thought; his life is made possible through the labor and the accomplishments of the many millions past and present who are all hidden behind the small word "society."
-- Albert Einstein: Why Socialism