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This is a discussion on The Real Lessons of the Great Depression within the Education forums, part of the US Discussion category; Since late 2007, more and more commentators have drawn parallels between our current financial crisis and the Great Depression. Nobel laureates and presidential advisors confidently ...
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| The Real Lessons of the Great Depression Quote: Since late 2007, more and more commentators have drawn parallels between our current financial crisis and the Great Depression. Nobel laureates and presidential advisors confidently proclaim that it was Herbert Hoover’s laissez-faire penny pinching that exacerbated the Depression, and that the American economy was saved only when FDR boldly ran up enormous deficits to fight the Nazis. But as I document in my new book, The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Great Depression and the New Deal, this official history is utterly false. Let’s first set the record straight on Herbert Hoover’s fiscal policies. Contrary to what you have heard and read over the last year, Hoover behaved as a textbook Keynesian after the stock market crash. He immediately cut income tax rates by one percentage point (applicable to the 1929 tax year) and began ratcheting up federal spending, increasing it 42 percent from fiscal year (FY) 1930 to FY 1932.
__________________ "The State’s criminality is nothing new and nothing to be wondered at. It began when the first predatory group of men clustered together and formed the State, and it will continue as long as the State exists in the world, because the State is fundamentally an anti-social institution, fundamentally criminal." - Albert Jay Nock Taxation is Theft, Conscription is Slavery, War is Mass Murder |
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| Well my post was a referral to an article written by Robert P. Murphy, who wrote the article to promote his new book The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Great Depression and the New Deal. But yes, I intend for people to look back at history and see that massive government spending only helped to prolong and worsen the Great Depression and that we are allowing history to repeat itself in our present economic downturn. That being said, what I intend and what I expect are two different things. I expect to be called a revisionist and to be told that I am wrong.
__________________ "The State’s criminality is nothing new and nothing to be wondered at. It began when the first predatory group of men clustered together and formed the State, and it will continue as long as the State exists in the world, because the State is fundamentally an anti-social institution, fundamentally criminal." - Albert Jay Nock Taxation is Theft, Conscription is Slavery, War is Mass Murder |
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| The argument is disingenuous. It was only in the last year of Hoover's term did the deficit rise appreciably. From this book The deficit never rose above 1% of GDP until 1932. It wasn't until 1932, the bottom of the Depression, did the deficit rise over 4% of GDP. I briefly looked on the Internet to find something visual, and this is all I could find for the moment. ![]() EH.Net Encyclopedia: The United States Public Debt, 1861 to 1975 As you can see, total public debt barely moved from 1927 to 1932. It wasn't until 1932 when the debt began to rise. Edit: Here is some more ![]() ![]() ![]() As you can see, it was only in 1932 when the government began heavily financing the deficit. Before that, after the economy had collapsed, the government hardly did anything at all. The author's own facts could be used against him in his argument. There is a lot of ideological revisionism going on.
__________________ Last edited by Toro; 04-20-2009 at 10:42 AM. Reason: More graphs |
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| Once again Kevin get's ideology whacked by facts. One might notice the line from 1992 to 2000. And the slope of the line appears not to have changed with the inauguration of President Obama. |
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| The argument is disingenuous. It was only in the last year of Hoover's term did the deficit rise appreciably. From this book Amazon.com: Anatomy of the Bear: Lessons from Wall Street's Four Great Bottoms: Russell Napier: Books The deficit never rose above 1% of GDP until 1932. It wasn't until 1932, the bottom of the Depression, did the deficit rise over 4% of GDP. I briefly looked on the Internet to find something visual, and this is all I could find for the moment. ![]() EH.Net Encyclopedia: The United States Public Debt, 1861 to 1975 As you can see, total public debt barely moved from 1927 to 1932. It wasn't until 1932 when the debt began to rise. Edit: Here is some more ![]() ![]() ![]() As you can see, it was only in 1932 when the government began heavily financing the deficit. Before that, after the economy had collapsed, the government hardly did anything at all. The author's own facts could be used against him in his argument. There is a lot of ideological revisionism going on. Quote: Let’s first set the record straight on Herbert Hoover’s fiscal policies. Contrary to what you have heard and read over the last year, Hoover behaved as a textbook Keynesian after the stock market crash. He immediately cut income tax rates by one percentage point (applicable to the 1929 tax year) and began ratcheting up federal spending, increasing it 42 percent from fiscal year (FY) 1930 to FY 1932. Year GDP-US Federal Deficit-fed 1930 91.2 -0.87 1931 76.5 0.13 1932 58.7 1.63 Federal Spending, State and Local Public Spending 1792-2014 - Charts
__________________ It’s Been 800 Days Since Senate Democrats Passed A Budget |
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__________________ "The State’s criminality is nothing new and nothing to be wondered at. It began when the first predatory group of men clustered together and formed the State, and it will continue as long as the State exists in the world, because the State is fundamentally an anti-social institution, fundamentally criminal." - Albert Jay Nock Taxation is Theft, Conscription is Slavery, War is Mass Murder |
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| actually no.....the claim is he didn't spend enough....which is why bush / obama are spending like they are.....
__________________ "I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is." ~ Albert Camus |
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| Generally no and definitely no.
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| The Following User Says Thank You to Toro For This Useful Post: | ||
Old Rocks (04-22-2009) | ||
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| Quote: Since late 2007, more and more commentators have drawn parallels between our current financial crisis and the Great Depression. Nobel laureates and presidential advisors confidently proclaim that it was Herbert Hoover’s laissez-faire penny pinching that exacerbated the Depression, and that the American economy was saved only when FDR boldly ran up enormous deficits to fight the Nazis. But as I document in my new book, The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Great Depression and the New Deal, this official history is utterly false. Let’s first set the record straight on Herbert Hoover’s fiscal policies. Contrary to what you have heard and read over the last year, Hoover behaved as a textbook Keynesian after the stock market crash. He immediately cut income tax rates by one percentage point (applicable to the 1929 tax year) and began ratcheting up federal spending, increasing it 42 percent from fiscal year (FY) 1930 to FY 1932.
__________________ "All governments should understand that you either govern for the people and against the bankers; or you govern for the bankers and against the people." *Adrian Salbuchi for RT Untill all people, regardless of gender, can legally bet the object of their affections half their shit that they'll love them forever, none of us are free. 2012 GOP slogan, ALA Miz Boop: "How can I love you if you won't bend over." Today's "religious freedom" is yesterday's "states rights." |
| The Following User Says Thank You to Barb For This Useful Post: | ||
editec (04-23-2009) | ||
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| Quote: Since late 2007, more and more commentators have drawn parallels between our current financial crisis and the Great Depression. Nobel laureates and presidential advisors confidently proclaim that it was Herbert Hoover’s laissez-faire penny pinching that exacerbated the Depression, and that the American economy was saved only when FDR boldly ran up enormous deficits to fight the Nazis. But as I document in my new book, The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Great Depression and the New Deal, this official history is utterly false. Let’s first set the record straight on Herbert Hoover’s fiscal policies. Contrary to what you have heard and read over the last year, Hoover behaved as a textbook Keynesian after the stock market crash. He immediately cut income tax rates by one percentage point (applicable to the 1929 tax year) and began ratcheting up federal spending, increasing it 42 percent from fiscal year (FY) 1930 to FY 1932. Thanks for adding to my spatterings of ignorance on this vast subject. |
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| Quote: Since late 2007, more and more commentators have drawn parallels between our current financial crisis and the Great Depression. Nobel laureates and presidential advisors confidently proclaim that it was Herbert Hoover’s laissez-faire penny pinching that exacerbated the Depression, and that the American economy was saved only when FDR boldly ran up enormous deficits to fight the Nazis. But as I document in my new book, The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Great Depression and the New Deal, this official history is utterly false. Let’s first set the record straight on Herbert Hoover’s fiscal policies. Contrary to what you have heard and read over the last year, Hoover behaved as a textbook Keynesian after the stock market crash. He immediately cut income tax rates by one percentage point (applicable to the 1929 tax year) and began ratcheting up federal spending, increasing it 42 percent from fiscal year (FY) 1930 to FY 1932.
__________________ "The State’s criminality is nothing new and nothing to be wondered at. It began when the first predatory group of men clustered together and formed the State, and it will continue as long as the State exists in the world, because the State is fundamentally an anti-social institution, fundamentally criminal." - Albert Jay Nock Taxation is Theft, Conscription is Slavery, War is Mass Murder |
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__________________ "All governments should understand that you either govern for the people and against the bankers; or you govern for the bankers and against the people." *Adrian Salbuchi for RT Untill all people, regardless of gender, can legally bet the object of their affections half their shit that they'll love them forever, none of us are free. 2012 GOP slogan, ALA Miz Boop: "How can I love you if you won't bend over." Today's "religious freedom" is yesterday's "states rights." |
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| You're correct about Hoover being a part of their administrations, but no "deregulation" caused the Great Depression. During the recession of 1920 - 1921 Hoover actually tried to get Warren Harding to intervene the way he would during the Great Depression, luckily Harding ignored this senseless advice and the recession only lasted about a year.
__________________ "The State’s criminality is nothing new and nothing to be wondered at. It began when the first predatory group of men clustered together and formed the State, and it will continue as long as the State exists in the world, because the State is fundamentally an anti-social institution, fundamentally criminal." - Albert Jay Nock Taxation is Theft, Conscription is Slavery, War is Mass Murder |
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