US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

How the States Got Their Shapes

This is a discussion on How the States Got Their Shapes within the Education forums, part of the US Discussion category; Quote: Originally Posted by konradv Quote: Originally Posted by Toro The single most bizarre shaped state is Maryland. Who thought of this? Is it all ...


Go Back   US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum > US Discussion > Education

Education Past US events and the basis for our future

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2010, 10:22 AM
Toro's Avatar
Member of the Illuminati
Member #2926
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Big Bend via Riderville
Posts: 31,645
Thanks: 1,338
Thanked 10,425 Times in 6,713 Posts
Mentioned: 105 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 526
Toro may be on a path to greatness Toro may be on a path to greatness Toro may be on a path to greatness Toro may be on a path to greatness Toro may be on a path to greatness Toro may be on a path to greatness Toro may be on a path to greatness Toro may be on a path to greatness Toro may be on a path to greatness Toro may be on a path to greatness Toro may be on a path to greatness Toro may be on a path to greatness Toro may be on a path to greatness Toro may be on a path to greatness
Quote: Originally Posted by konradv View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Toro View Post
The single most bizarre shaped state is Maryland.



Who thought of this? Is it all the counties that Pennsylvania, New Jersey and Virginia didn't want?
It was founded on a royal charter like most of the others. It got its final shape when the Mason-Dixon line was surveyed to end land squabbles between the colonies and MD simply became the land between it and the Potomac River out to where VA began, now WV.
I knew it was something odd like that. Thanks.
__________________

We go again.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
USMessageBoard.com is the premier Political Forum Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see these ads. Please Register - It's Free!
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2010, 12:28 PM
konradv's Avatar
Registered User
Member #22976
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 14,089
Thanks: 1,117
Thanked 2,689 Times in 2,038 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 1106
konradv could be on the Supreme Court
konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court
Quote: Originally Posted by xotoxi View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Mr Clean View Post
Why are there two Dakotas?
Because in the 12 degrees of latitude between 37 and 49, the wanted to divide it equally...thus each of the 4 plains states (ND, SD, NE, KS) is 3 degrees of latitude high.
I heard that it was divided because the Republican party was dominant there, so they decided to split it and get 4 senators instead of two. If it were all about latitude, why wasn't Minnesota split. It's the same N-S size?
Reply With Quote
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2010, 01:40 PM
American Horse's Avatar
AKA "Mustang"
Member #18324
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The Hoosier Heartland
Posts: 5,508
Thanks: 1,540
Thanked 901 Times in 693 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 311
American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness
Quote: Originally Posted by konradv View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by xotoxi View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Mr Clean View Post
Why are there two Dakotas?
Because in the 12 degrees of latitude between 37 and 49, the wanted to divide it equally...thus each of the 4 plains states (ND, SD, NE, KS) is 3 degrees of latitude high.
I heard that it was divided because the Republican party was dominant there, so they decided to split it and get 4 senators instead of two. If it were all about latitude, why wasn't Minnesota split. It's the same N-S size?
You can tell there's a flaw in that explanation when you consider that if the Dakotas were one state they would be the largest states thus far created. Xo has it right, it's because it was decided to divide that row of states in 3-degree heights fom Oklahoma to Canada.


Consider, that decision also determined the north line of Oklahoma and caused the Oklahoma "panhandle" to be created.
In turn Oklahoma's line determined New Mexico's, Arizona's, Colorado's, and Utah's common boundary.
Here are the range of lattitudes:
Oklahoma North line 37
Kansas 37 to 40 N
Nebraska 40 to 43N
S. Dakota 43 to 45.93 N
N. Dakota 45.93 to 49 N
__________________
~
My Avatar - a random configuration of stars in deep space as captured by Hubble.
Reply With Quote
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2010, 01:51 PM
Registered User
Member #20704
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Buckle of the Rust Belt
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 3,730
Thanked 4,309 Times in 2,612 Posts
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 5370
Nosmo King is cooler than the underside of a pillow Nosmo King is cooler than the underside of a pillow Nosmo King is cooler than the underside of a pillow Nosmo King is cooler than the underside of a pillow
Nosmo King is cooler than the underside of a pillow Nosmo King is cooler than the underside of a pillow Nosmo King is cooler than the underside of a pillow Nosmo King is cooler than the underside of a pillow Nosmo King is cooler than the underside of a pillow Nosmo King is cooler than the underside of a pillow Nosmo King is cooler than the underside of a pillow Nosmo King is cooler than the underside of a pillow Nosmo King is cooler than the underside of a pillow Nosmo King is cooler than the underside of a pillow Nosmo King is cooler than the underside of a pillow
The POB or Point of Beginning is in my hometown. All the quadrilateral survey done in all the states west of Pennsylvania own my hometown a tip of the hat because all those surveys are based on a point at the northernmost point of the Ohio River opposite the northernmost point of what was once Virginia and the eastern border of the Northwest Territory which now is comprised of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and that state up north!




__________________
In my humble opinion, Nosmo King is a genius! ~ Big Black Dog

Last edited by Nosmo King; 07-22-2010 at 02:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #35 (permalink)  
Old 07-23-2010, 07:31 AM
konradv's Avatar
Registered User
Member #22976
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 14,089
Thanks: 1,117
Thanked 2,689 Times in 2,038 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 1106
konradv could be on the Supreme Court
konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court
Quote: Originally Posted by American Horse View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by konradv View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by xotoxi View Post

Because in the 12 degrees of latitude between 37 and 49, the wanted to divide it equally...thus each of the 4 plains states (ND, SD, NE, KS) is 3 degrees of latitude high.
I heard that it was divided because the Republican party was dominant there, so they decided to split it and get 4 senators instead of two. If it were all about latitude, why wasn't Minnesota split. It's the same N-S size?
You can tell there's a flaw in that explanation when you consider that if the Dakotas were one state they would be the largest states thus far created. Xo has it right, it's because it was decided to divide that row of states in 3-degree heights fom Oklahoma to Canada.


Consider, that decision also determined the north line of Oklahoma and caused the Oklahoma "panhandle" to be created.
In turn Oklahoma's line determined New Mexico's, Arizona's, Colorado's, and Utah's common boundary.
Here are the range of lattitudes:
Oklahoma North line 37
Kansas 37 to 40 N
Nebraska 40 to 43N
S. Dakota 43 to 45.93 N
N. Dakota 45.93 to 49 N
Excerpt from Wikipdeia:

The territorial capital was Yankton from 1861 until 1883, when it was moved to Bismarck. Dakota Territory was divided into the states of North Dakota and South Dakota on November 2, 1889. The admission of two states, as opposed to one, was done for a number of reasons. The two population centers in the territory were in the northeast and southeast corners of the territory, several hundred miles away from each other. On a national level, there was pressure from the Republican Party to admit two states to add to their political power in the Senate.

Dakota Territory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Reply With Quote
  #36 (permalink)  
Old 07-23-2010, 08:29 AM
Banned
Member #18625
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 29,974
Thanks: 532
Thanked 4,450 Times in 3,271 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 0
xotoxi kicks locomotives off the tracks xotoxi kicks locomotives off the tracks xotoxi kicks locomotives off the tracks xotoxi kicks locomotives off the tracks xotoxi kicks locomotives off the tracks xotoxi kicks locomotives off the tracks
Quote: Originally Posted by Nosmo King View Post
The POB or Point of Beginning is in my hometown. All the quadrilateral survey done in all the states west of Pennsylvania own my hometown a tip of the hat because all those surveys are based on a point at the northernmost point of the Ohio River opposite the northernmost point of what was once Virginia and the eastern border of the Northwest Territory which now is comprised of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and that state up north!




That's cool.

My town contains the Center of the Universe. This is the point around which everything in the entire universe revolves.

In fact, it is located right at my house.
Reply With Quote
  #37 (permalink)  
Old 07-23-2010, 09:54 AM
American Horse's Avatar
AKA "Mustang"
Member #18324
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The Hoosier Heartland
Posts: 5,508
Thanks: 1,540
Thanked 901 Times in 693 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 311
American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness
Quote: Originally Posted by konradv View Post
Excerpt from Wikipdeia:

The territorial capital was Yankton from 1861 until 1883, when it was moved to Bismarck. Dakota Territory was divided into the states of North Dakota and South Dakota on November 2, 1889. The admission of two states, as opposed to one, was done for a number of reasons. The two population centers in the territory were in the northeast and southeast corners of the territory, several hundred miles away from each other. On a national level, there was pressure from the Republican Party to admit two states to add to their political power in the Senate.

Dakota Territory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The territories were all subdivided: The NW territory was renamed the Indiana Territory, with the statehood of Ohio. the Indiana Territory was reduced in 1805 by the creation of the Michigan Territory, and in 1809 by the creation of the Illinois Territory. As your Wiki link alludes to, that sort of subdivision seemed to be a result of problems of managing large geographic areas. Soon after the creation of the Indiana Territory, the territorial governor Wm H. Harrison reported that the whole territory was unmanageble from a single capital, and he called for the building of a "highway" from Cincinatti to Vincennes, the Indiana territorial capital, and another capital in Michigan accessible from lakes Huron, Erie, and Michigan.

Subsequently the Illinois Territory, produced from the Indiana Territory was subdivided into all of or parts of Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota, but not before part of that territory would become a part of the Michigan territory, after the statehoold of Illinois.


That was the standing operating procedure. A Dakota territory left in one piece would've been a departure from all past experience and would've been larger than all the Illinois territory which became 3 states. Therefore the influence of the Republican Party in statehood affairs seems to be one political interpretaton of events.
__________________
~
My Avatar - a random configuration of stars in deep space as captured by Hubble.

Last edited by American Horse; 07-23-2010 at 10:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2010, 10:15 AM
konradv's Avatar
Registered User
Member #22976
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 14,089
Thanks: 1,117
Thanked 2,689 Times in 2,038 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 1106
konradv could be on the Supreme Court
konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court
Quote: Originally Posted by American Horse View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by konradv View Post
Excerpt from Wikipdeia:

The territorial capital was Yankton from 1861 until 1883, when it was moved to Bismarck. Dakota Territory was divided into the states of North Dakota and South Dakota on November 2, 1889. The admission of two states, as opposed to one, was done for a number of reasons. The two population centers in the territory were in the northeast and southeast corners of the territory, several hundred miles away from each other. On a national level, there was pressure from the Republican Party to admit two states to add to their political power in the Senate.

Dakota Territory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The territories were all subdivided: The NW territory was renamed the Indiana Territory, with the statehood of Ohio. the Indiana Territory was reduced in 1805 by the creation of the Michigan Territory, and in 1809 by the creation of the Illinois Territory. As your Wiki link alludes to, that sort of subdivision seemed to be a result of problems of managing large geographic areas. Soon after the creation of the Indiana Territory, the territorial governor Wm H. Harrison reported that the whole territory was unmanageble from a single capital, and he called for the building of a "highway" from Cincinatti to Vincennes, the Indiana territorial capital, and another capital in Michigan accessible from lakes Huron, Erie, and Michigan.

Subsequently the Illinois Territory, produced from the Indiana Territory was subdivided into all of or parts of Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota, but not before part of that territory would become a part of the Michigan territory, after the statehoold of Illinois.


That was the standing operating procedure. A Dakota territory left in one piece would've been a departure from all past experience and would've been larger than all the Illinois territory which became 3 states. Therefore the influence of the Republican Party in statehood affairs seems to be one political interpretaton of events.
The population and land size arguments, I see as convenient excuses. The extra senators were THE REASON.
Reply With Quote
  #39 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2010, 12:50 PM
konradv's Avatar
Registered User
Member #22976
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 14,089
Thanks: 1,117
Thanked 2,689 Times in 2,038 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 1106
konradv could be on the Supreme Court
konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court konradv could be on the Supreme Court
the REAL mystery is why the MI UP isn't part of WI?!?!
Reply With Quote
  #40 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2010, 04:09 PM
American Horse's Avatar
AKA "Mustang"
Member #18324
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The Hoosier Heartland
Posts: 5,508
Thanks: 1,540
Thanked 901 Times in 693 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 311
American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness American Horse may be on a path to greatness
Quote: Originally Posted by konradv View Post
the REAL mystery is why the MI UP isn't part of WI?!?!
While still a territory Michigan and the state of Ohio disagreed about an area of land called the Toledo Strip, about 468 square miles in area, with both claiming sovereignty over it. The Michigan territory, after Illinois became a state was added onto including the area of future Wisconsin and the upper peninsula.

During this period the Michigan Territory got itself into a financial crisis, and at the same time the territorial government was under pressure to give the Toledo Strip to the state of Ohio.

Michigan applied for statehood and the congress and president Jackson made them an offer in the form of a resolution; give up the Toledo strip to Ohio and acquire the western three fourths of the upper pennsula as part of becoming the new state of Michigan.

The deal was struck, and it was generally believed that Ohio had won the "Toledo War" as the disagreement was called. But the mineral wealth that was discovered in the UP made that victory moot within a decade.
__________________
~
My Avatar - a random configuration of stars in deep space as captured by Hubble.

Last edited by American Horse; 07-26-2010 at 10:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to American Horse For This Useful Post:
konradv (07-27-2010)
Reply


Lower Navigation
Go Back   US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum > US Discussion > Education
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump

Search tags for this page

how did florida get its shape

,

how did wyoming get its shape

,

how did michigan get its shape

,

how did minnesota get its shape

,

how did wisconsin get its shape

,
how did the state pennsylvania get its shape
,
how the states got their shapes/ nebraska
,
how did nebraska get its borders
,
how did minnesota get it's shape
,
how did washington state get its shape
,
how did the state of maine get its shape?
,
how did the state of missouri get its shape
Click on a term to search our site for related topics.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:00 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.