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How the States Got Their Shapes

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2010, 10:22 AM
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The single most bizarre shaped state is Maryland.

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Who thought of this? Is it all the counties that Pennsylvania, New Jersey and Virginia didn't want?
It was founded on a royal charter like most of the others. It got its final shape when the Mason-Dixon line was surveyed to end land squabbles between the colonies and MD simply became the land between it and the Potomac River out to where VA began, now WV.
I knew it was something odd like that. Thanks.
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Old 07-22-2010, 12:28 PM
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Why are there two Dakotas?
Because in the 12 degrees of latitude between 37 and 49, the wanted to divide it equally...thus each of the 4 plains states (ND, SD, NE, KS) is 3 degrees of latitude high.
I heard that it was divided because the Republican party was dominant there, so they decided to split it and get 4 senators instead of two. If it were all about latitude, why wasn't Minnesota split. It's the same N-S size?
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2010, 01:40 PM
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Why are there two Dakotas?
Because in the 12 degrees of latitude between 37 and 49, the wanted to divide it equally...thus each of the 4 plains states (ND, SD, NE, KS) is 3 degrees of latitude high.
I heard that it was divided because the Republican party was dominant there, so they decided to split it and get 4 senators instead of two. If it were all about latitude, why wasn't Minnesota split. It's the same N-S size?
You can tell there's a flaw in that explanation when you consider that if the Dakotas were one state they would be the largest states thus far created. Xo has it right, it's because it was decided to divide that row of states in 3-degree heights fom Oklahoma to Canada.


Consider, that decision also determined the north line of Oklahoma and caused the Oklahoma "panhandle" to be created.
In turn Oklahoma's line determined New Mexico's, Arizona's, Colorado's, and Utah's common boundary.
Here are the range of lattitudes:
Oklahoma North line 37°
Kansas 37° to 40° N
Nebraska 40° to 43°N
S. Dakota 43 °to 45.93° N
N. Dakota 45.93° to 49° N
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2010, 01:51 PM
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The POB or Point of Beginning is in my hometown. All the quadrilateral survey done in all the states west of Pennsylvania own my hometown a tip of the hat because all those surveys are based on a point at the northernmost point of the Ohio River opposite the northernmost point of what was once Virginia and the eastern border of the Northwest Territory which now is comprised of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and that state up north!




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Old 07-23-2010, 07:31 AM
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konradv could be on the Supreme Court
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Quote: Originally Posted by American Horse Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see images.

Because in the 12 degrees of latitude between 37 and 49, the wanted to divide it equally...thus each of the 4 plains states (ND, SD, NE, KS) is 3 degrees of latitude high.
I heard that it was divided because the Republican party was dominant there, so they decided to split it and get 4 senators instead of two. If it were all about latitude, why wasn't Minnesota split. It's the same N-S size?
You can tell there's a flaw in that explanation when you consider that if the Dakotas were one state they would be the largest states thus far created. Xo has it right, it's because it was decided to divide that row of states in 3-degree heights fom Oklahoma to Canada.


Consider, that decision also determined the north line of Oklahoma and caused the Oklahoma "panhandle" to be created.
In turn Oklahoma's line determined New Mexico's, Arizona's, Colorado's, and Utah's common boundary.
Here are the range of lattitudes:
Oklahoma North line 37°
Kansas 37° to 40° N
Nebraska 40° to 43°N
S. Dakota 43 °to 45.93° N
N. Dakota 45.93° to 49° N
Excerpt from Wikipdeia:

The territorial capital was Yankton from 1861 until 1883, when it was moved to Bismarck. Dakota Territory was divided into the states of North Dakota and South Dakota on November 2, 1889. The admission of two states, as opposed to one, was done for a number of reasons. The two population centers in the territory were in the northeast and southeast corners of the territory, several hundred miles away from each other. On a national level, there was pressure from the Republican Party to admit two states to add to their political power in the Senate.

Dakota Territory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 07-23-2010, 08:29 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Nosmo King Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see images.
The POB or Point of Beginning is in my hometown. All the quadrilateral survey done in all the states west of Pennsylvania own my hometown a tip of the hat because all those surveys are based on a point at the northernmost point of the Ohio River opposite the northernmost point of what was once Virginia and the eastern border of the Northwest Territory which now is comprised of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and that state up north!




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That's cool.

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In fact, it is located right at my house.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 07-23-2010, 09:54 AM
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Excerpt from Wikipdeia:

The territorial capital was Yankton from 1861 until 1883, when it was moved to Bismarck. Dakota Territory was divided into the states of North Dakota and South Dakota on November 2, 1889. The admission of two states, as opposed to one, was done for a number of reasons. The two population centers in the territory were in the northeast and southeast corners of the territory, several hundred miles away from each other. On a national level, there was pressure from the Republican Party to admit two states to add to their political power in the Senate.

Dakota Territory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The territories were all subdivided: The NW territory was renamed the Indiana Territory, with the statehood of Ohio. the Indiana Territory was reduced in 1805 by the creation of the Michigan Territory, and in 1809 by the creation of the Illinois Territory. As your Wiki link alludes to, that sort of subdivision seemed to be a result of problems of managing large geographic areas. Soon after the creation of the Indiana Territory, the territorial governor Wm H. Harrison reported that the whole territory was unmanageble from a single capital, and he called for the building of a "highway" from Cincinatti to Vincennes, the Indiana territorial capital, and another capital in Michigan accessible from lakes Huron, Erie, and Michigan.

Subsequently the Illinois Territory, produced from the Indiana Territory was subdivided into all of or parts of Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota, but not before part of that territory would become a part of the Michigan territory, after the statehoold of Illinois.
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That was the standing operating procedure. A Dakota territory left in one piece would've been a departure from all past experience and would've been larger than all the Illinois territory which became 3 states. Therefore the influence of the Republican Party in statehood affairs seems to be one political interpretaton of events.
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Last edited by American Horse; 07-23-2010 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 07-24-2010, 10:15 AM
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konradv could be on the Supreme Court
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Quote: Originally Posted by American Horse Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see images.
Excerpt from Wikipdeia:

The territorial capital was Yankton from 1861 until 1883, when it was moved to Bismarck. Dakota Territory was divided into the states of North Dakota and South Dakota on November 2, 1889. The admission of two states, as opposed to one, was done for a number of reasons. The two population centers in the territory were in the northeast and southeast corners of the territory, several hundred miles away from each other. On a national level, there was pressure from the Republican Party to admit two states to add to their political power in the Senate.

Dakota Territory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The territories were all subdivided: The NW territory was renamed the Indiana Territory, with the statehood of Ohio. the Indiana Territory was reduced in 1805 by the creation of the Michigan Territory, and in 1809 by the creation of the Illinois Territory. As your Wiki link alludes to, that sort of subdivision seemed to be a result of problems of managing large geographic areas. Soon after the creation of the Indiana Territory, the territorial governor Wm H. Harrison reported that the whole territory was unmanageble from a single capital, and he called for the building of a "highway" from Cincinatti to Vincennes, the Indiana territorial capital, and another capital in Michigan accessible from lakes Huron, Erie, and Michigan.

Subsequently the Illinois Territory, produced from the Indiana Territory was subdivided into all of or parts of Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota, but not before part of that territory would become a part of the Michigan territory, after the statehoold of Illinois.
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That was the standing operating procedure. A Dakota territory left in one piece would've been a departure from all past experience and would've been larger than all the Illinois territory which became 3 states. Therefore the influence of the Republican Party in statehood affairs seems to be one political interpretaton of events.
The population and land size arguments, I see as convenient excuses. The extra senators were THE REASON.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2010, 12:50 PM
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konradv could be on the Supreme Court
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the REAL mystery is why the MI UP isn't part of WI?!?!
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Old 07-26-2010, 04:09 PM
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the REAL mystery is why the MI UP isn't part of WI?!?!
While still a territory Michigan and the state of Ohio disagreed about an area of land called the Toledo Strip, about 468 square miles in area, with both claiming sovereignty over it. The Michigan territory, after Illinois became a state was added onto including the area of future Wisconsin and the upper peninsula.

During this period the Michigan Territory got itself into a financial crisis, and at the same time the territorial government was under pressure to give the Toledo Strip to the state of Ohio.

Michigan applied for statehood and the congress and president Jackson made them an offer in the form of a resolution; give up the Toledo strip to Ohio and acquire the western three fourths of the upper pennsula as part of becoming the new state of Michigan.

The deal was struck, and it was generally believed that Ohio had won the "Toledo War" as the disagreement was called. But the mineral wealth that was discovered in the UP made that victory moot within a decade.
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Last edited by American Horse; 07-26-2010 at 10:45 PM.
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