US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Did the Founders want a weak central government?

This is a discussion on Did the Founders want a weak central government? within the Education forums, part of the US Discussion category; If you answered "YES", the please explain why they did not keep the Articles of Confederation, which was a form of government with weak central ...


Go Back   US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum > US Discussion > Education

Education Past US events and the basis for our future

View Poll Results: Did the Founding Fathers want a weak central government?
Yes 24 61.54%
No 15 38.46%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2010, 08:02 AM
SpidermanTuba's Avatar
Banned
Member #1320
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
Posts: 6,101
Thanks: 94
Thanked 159 Times in 139 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 0
SpidermanTuba could own USMB SpidermanTuba could own USMB SpidermanTuba could own USMB SpidermanTuba could own USMB SpidermanTuba could own USMB SpidermanTuba could own USMB
Did the Founders want a weak central government?

If you answered "YES", the please explain why they did not keep the Articles of Confederation, which was a form of government with weak central authority and most of the real power still resting with the states.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
USMessageBoard.com is the premier Political Forum Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see these ads. Please Register - It's Free!
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2010, 08:07 AM
Banned
Member #17281
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Drinking wine, eating cheese, catching rays
Posts: 41,428
Thanks: 7,010
Thanked 18,761 Times in 10,366 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 0
Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow
Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow Oddball is cooler than the underside of a pillow
A question which is truly ignorant of American history.

The Federalists (Adams, Hamilton, et al): No.

The Anti-federalists (Jefferson, Paine, etcetera): Yes.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Oddball For This Useful Post:
Vast LWC (04-21-2010), westwall (11-27-2010)
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2010, 08:09 AM
Banned
Member #21210
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 50,356
Thanks: 9,352
Thanked 19,950 Times in 11,912 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 0
California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow
California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow
On a scale of 1 to 10..... how stupid can one poster be?

1 being damned smart (I'm thinking on a par with, say, Navy1960) and 10 being dumb as dirt and stupid as mud (It would be unkind to single out just one).


*NB: I miss Navy.... wish he'd get his ass back on the forum. Shit.... I should just email his ass and tell him that I miss him.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2010, 08:10 AM
Registered User
Member #15644
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 964
Thanks: 884
Thanked 221 Times in 156 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 26
QUENTIN could own USMB QUENTIN could own USMB QUENTIN could own USMB QUENTIN could own USMB QUENTIN could own USMB QUENTIN could own USMB
Define what you mean by "weak" in this context.

Dude's breakdown is largely accurate in terms of who wanted more authority vs. less authority relative to the States, but how "weak" or "strong" any of it was is too subjective to answer in a vague poll.
__________________
"Why do you come to a political site all day and refuse to learn anything of substance?" -Truthmatters

"All nationalists have the power of not seeing resemblances between similar sets of facts. Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits, but according to who does them, and there is almost no kind of outrage — torture, the use of hostages, forced labour, mass deportations, imprisonment without trial, forgery, assassination, the bombing of civilians — which does not change its moral colour when it is committed by “our” side. – George Orwell, “Notes on Nationalism”, 1945

Last edited by QUENTIN; 04-21-2010 at 08:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2010, 08:11 AM
Banned
Member #21210
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 50,356
Thanks: 9,352
Thanked 19,950 Times in 11,912 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 0
California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow
California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow California Girl is cooler than the underside of a pillow
Quote: Originally Posted by Dude View Post
A question which is truly ignorant of American history.

The Federalists (Adams, Hamilton, et al): No.

The Anti-federalists (Jefferson, Paine, etcetera): Yes.
The OP appears to equate small with weak, or isn't smart enough to know the difference. Go figure. It's a dumbass question undeserving of a serious response.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2010, 08:11 AM
DiamondDave's Avatar
Army Vet
Member #11393
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: MD, on the Potomac River
Posts: 18,009
Thanks: 6,954
Thanked 5,044 Times in 3,257 Posts
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 2934
DiamondDave has a reputation beyond repute DiamondDave has a reputation beyond repute DiamondDave has a reputation beyond repute DiamondDave has a reputation beyond repute
DiamondDave has a reputation beyond repute DiamondDave has a reputation beyond repute DiamondDave has a reputation beyond repute DiamondDave has a reputation beyond repute DiamondDave has a reputation beyond repute DiamondDave has a reputation beyond repute DiamondDave has a reputation beyond repute DiamondDave has a reputation beyond repute DiamondDave has a reputation beyond repute DiamondDave has a reputation beyond repute DiamondDave has a reputation beyond repute DiamondDave has a reputation beyond repute
Limited and enumerated powers that were specifically granted along with the stipulation that those powers not granted to the fed are reserved for the states and individuals.... while not 'weak' the founders clearly sought to limit the powers of the fed... unlike what left wingers believe
__________________
Fuck the subjective notion of 'fair'
Embrace true equality in treatment in all aspects, not just ones that benefit you or your cause

Quote: Originally Posted by Truthmatters View Post
A pure Democracy is NOT Democracy.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2010, 08:15 AM
NYcarbineer's Avatar
Registered User
Member #18701
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 41,352
Thanks: 707
Thanked 8,324 Times in 6,240 Posts
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 2620
NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute
NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute
Quote: Originally Posted by DiamondDave View Post
Limited and enumerated powers that were specifically granted along with the stipulation that those powers not granted to the fed are reserved for the states and individuals.... while not 'weak' the founders clearly sought to limit the powers of the fed... unlike what left wingers believe
Yet ironically in the other thread you are arguing that the federal government has the power to infringe on or take away my right to travel, despite there being no such enumerated power in the Constitution.
__________________
"The devil triumphs when good men do naught."
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2010, 08:17 AM
Baruch Menachem's Avatar
'
Member #11920
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,004
Thanks: 4,731
Thanked 4,473 Times in 2,842 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 2121
Baruch Menachem has a reputation beyond repute Baruch Menachem has a reputation beyond repute Baruch Menachem has a reputation beyond repute
Baruch Menachem has a reputation beyond repute Baruch Menachem has a reputation beyond repute Baruch Menachem has a reputation beyond repute Baruch Menachem has a reputation beyond repute Baruch Menachem has a reputation beyond repute Baruch Menachem has a reputation beyond repute Baruch Menachem has a reputation beyond repute Baruch Menachem has a reputation beyond repute Baruch Menachem has a reputation beyond repute Baruch Menachem has a reputation beyond repute
They wanted something strong enough to deal with outside threats, but not so strong as it would be a daily harassment to the average citizen.

Big issues back in 1789 were the British insistence that they could interfere with US shipping, the pirates off the African coast, bankrupt states threatening the security of the rest of the country.

Some things never change.

But they wanted internal freedom and external strength.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Baruch Menachem For This Useful Post:
glew (11-26-2010), Quantum Windbag (11-15-2010)
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2010, 08:27 AM
NYcarbineer's Avatar
Registered User
Member #18701
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 41,352
Thanks: 707
Thanked 8,324 Times in 6,240 Posts
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 2620
NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute
NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute
Quote: Originally Posted by Dude View Post
A question which is truly ignorant of American history.

The Federalists (Adams, Hamilton, et al): No.

The Anti-federalists (Jefferson, Paine, etcetera): Yes.
There's nothing ignorant in the question. Ignorance is your inability to answer it.
__________________
"The devil triumphs when good men do naught."
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2010, 08:30 AM
NYcarbineer's Avatar
Registered User
Member #18701
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 41,352
Thanks: 707
Thanked 8,324 Times in 6,240 Posts
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 2620
NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute
NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute
Quote: Originally Posted by California Girl View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Dude View Post
A question which is truly ignorant of American history.

The Federalists (Adams, Hamilton, et al): No.

The Anti-federalists (Jefferson, Paine, etcetera): Yes.
The OP appears to equate small with weak, or isn't smart enough to know the difference. Go figure. It's a dumbass question undeserving of a serious response.
Like you would know. jeezus christ. miss america strikes again.
__________________
"The devil triumphs when good men do naught."
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2010, 08:32 AM
Meister's Avatar
Supporting Member
Member #17949
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Conservative part of the Northwest
Posts: 24,973
Thanks: 12,977
Thanked 10,183 Times in 6,352 Posts
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 17563
Meister gives orders to the Illuminati Meister gives orders to the Illuminati
Meister gives orders to the Illuminati Meister gives orders to the Illuminati Meister gives orders to the Illuminati Meister gives orders to the Illuminati Meister gives orders to the Illuminati Meister gives orders to the Illuminati Meister gives orders to the Illuminati Meister gives orders to the Illuminati Meister gives orders to the Illuminati Meister gives orders to the Illuminati Meister gives orders to the Illuminati Meister gives orders to the Illuminati Meister gives orders to the Illuminati Meister gives orders to the Illuminati Meister gives orders to the Illuminati
History taught me a smaller federal government and stronger state government

Last edited by Meister; 04-21-2010 at 08:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Meister For This Useful Post:
bigrebnc1775 (11-27-2010)
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2010, 08:35 AM
Dr.Traveler's Avatar
Mathematician
Member #20701
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: In a Non-Euclidean Manifold
Posts: 3,162
Thanks: 529
Thanked 737 Times in 538 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 209
Dr.Traveler has disabled reputation
Weak?

No. They had the Articles of Confederation and could have stayed with that if they wanted a weak government. They met initially to fix the Articles because they knew that the Articles had serious flaws.

Dude makes a good point in this thread though. The Founders were not some homogeneous group think. They had differing opinions on almost any topic that came up during the day, so it isn't really possible to talk about the opinion of that group as a whole. That's part of the reason that the whole "Original Intent" agrument is typically bunk.

But one thing is clear: They knew the Articles, which provided a very weak central government, needed work.
__________________
In whose best interests do you act? To whom are you accountable? How do we get rid of you?
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dr.Traveler For This Useful Post:
glew (11-26-2010), Vast LWC (04-21-2010)
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2010, 08:37 AM
SpidermanTuba's Avatar
Banned
Member #1320
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
Posts: 6,101
Thanks: 94
Thanked 159 Times in 139 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 0
SpidermanTuba could own USMB SpidermanTuba could own USMB SpidermanTuba could own USMB SpidermanTuba could own USMB SpidermanTuba could own USMB SpidermanTuba could own USMB
Quote: Originally Posted by DiamondDave View Post
Limited and enumerated powers that were specifically granted along with the stipulation that those powers not granted to the fed are reserved for the states and individuals.... while not 'weak' the founders clearly sought to limit the powers of the fed... unlike what left wingers believe
Having a central government with limited power merely makes the system federal.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2010, 08:38 AM
NYcarbineer's Avatar
Registered User
Member #18701
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 41,352
Thanks: 707
Thanked 8,324 Times in 6,240 Posts
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 2620
NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute
NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute NYcarbineer has a reputation beyond repute
Quote: Originally Posted by California Girl View Post
On a scale of 1 to 10..... how stupid can one poster be?
"Namecalling is the sign of a lost argument." California Girl 10/16/09

lol, sometimes it's just too easy around here. Where do the intelligent rightwingers post?
__________________
"The devil triumphs when good men do naught."
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2010, 08:40 AM
Dr.Traveler's Avatar
Mathematician
Member #20701
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: In a Non-Euclidean Manifold
Posts: 3,162
Thanks: 529
Thanked 737 Times in 538 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Rep Power: 209
Dr.Traveler has disabled reputation
Quote: Originally Posted by NYcarbineer View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by California Girl View Post
On a scale of 1 to 10..... how stupid can one poster be?
"Namecalling is the sign of a lost argument." California Girl 10/16/09

lol, sometimes it's just too easy around here. Where do the intelligent rightwingers post?
Can you provide the link to that quote. It might be useful in a few other threads.
__________________
In whose best interests do you act? To whom are you accountable? How do we get rid of you?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Lower Navigation
Go Back   US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum > US Discussion > Education
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump

Search tags for this page

the founders created a weak national/ central government because

,

why did the founders want a strong executive

,

did any of the founding fathers favor strong central government

,

wht did the founders desire a strong government

,

is nationalism a weak central government?

Click on a term to search our site for related topics.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:25 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.