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Under Bush US's 400 richest doubled their wealth

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Old 02-01-2009, 03:28 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Skull Pilot Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see images.
The concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a small minority is demonstrated throughout history to lead to plutocracy and the diminishment of democracy. In most cases, they led to failed nation states.

This is historical fact.

This is something the revolutionary founders were well aware of, and they found concentrations of wealth in the hands of a few to be abhorrant to the ideals of a republican democracy.

Hardly anyone begrudes someone working hard and becoming rich. That's not the issue. The issue is a system that is gamed to allow the concentration of wealth in an increasingly tiny portion of the population. That's antithetic to a healthy democracy. That's what Russia is: a plutocracy. That's the model, among many others, of a nation state where wealth has been overwhelminnly and disporportionately concentrated in the hands of a few thousand people.

Take a gander at Warren Buffet's article on wealth. He says he pays a lower tax rate than his secretary or cleaning lady. The tax code is set up to protect weatlh, and investment wealth is increasingly, since the Reagan years, taxed at lower rates than income generated from actually working and making a wage.
What makes an earned wage more important than a dividend that a dividend should be taxed at a higher rate?

Is it because you perceive that a guy who works 40 hours a week adds more to the economy than a guy with a multimillion dollar investment portfolio?

Or does the multimillion dollar investment portfolio create more return economically when that money is used by banks and companies to build a hospital, to produce a product that changes people's lives for the better?

Whose production did more for the economy as a whole, the assembly line worker of the idle rich guy who invests his money?
How about dividend and capital gains income being taxed at the SAME income tax rate as the rest of us have to pay instead of LESS? Why do you see it fair for these incomes to pay less in income tax as a percentage than Buffet's Secretary has to pay as a percentage of her income?
How about taxing income less?
How about that?

How about the government leave us all more of the money we earn

how about that?
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2009, 03:31 PM
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What makes an earned wage more important than a dividend that a dividend should be taxed at a higher rate?

Is it because you perceive that a guy who works 40 hours a week adds more to the economy than a guy with a multimillion dollar investment portfolio?

Or does the multimillion dollar investment portfolio create more return economically when that money is used by banks and companies to build a hospital, to produce a product that changes people's lives for the better?

Whose production did more for the economy as a whole, the assembly line worker of the idle rich guy who invests his money?
How about dividend and capital gains income being taxed at the SAME income tax rate as the rest of us have to pay instead of LESS? Why do you see it fair for these incomes to pay less in income tax as a percentage than Buffet's Secretary has to pay as a percentage of her income?
How about taxing income less?
How about that?

How about the government leave us all more of the money we earn

how about that?
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2009, 03:35 PM
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you know it is a scam....the capital gains tax cut....

none of the money all of us have invested in the stock market ever gets hit with a capital gains tax when we sell the stocks in our 401 k after retirement, we get taxed at income tax rates not capital gains rates.
because 401 k and other retirement accounts are not really so great simply because they are tax deferred. The only thing that makes them worthwhile is the company matching funds.

If you were to use a Roth IRA only if you qualified and put post tax money into a straight investment portfolio rather than an401 or simply max out your match and then put any additional money into a standard diversified portfolio, you would pay less actual taxes as cap. gains and dividends are taxed at lower rates than income AND you would not be subject to required minimum withdrawals as you are in retirement accounts. RMD is the government's tool to make absolutely sure they get every tax dollar they can out of your retirement nest egg before you croak.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2009, 03:38 PM
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who the hell is working here? Do you consider Capital Gains working?
if you do it right it is.......work you ass off ..... buy a house....fix it up sell it....capital gains.....

anyway thank god obama is here to take away all the rich folks money and pass it ot to the incompetent.....
you don't pay capital gains on your own house that you sell....a million is exempt if you are married i think, from any capital gains? or maybe it is $500 thousand exempt per couple, thought it was the million though?

so only over the million dollars would be taxed at capital gains....first million in profit, is exempt from any taxes...if i understand it correctly?
you avoid capital gains on the first 250K of profit on a house sale if you have lived there for two years there is also an age exemption where you pay no cap gains. i'm not sure if its 55 or 60 though.
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Old 02-01-2009, 03:43 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Skull Pilot Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see images.
The concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a small minority is demonstrated throughout history to lead to plutocracy and the diminishment of democracy. In most cases, they led to failed nation states.

This is historical fact.

This is something the revolutionary founders were well aware of, and they found concentrations of wealth in the hands of a few to be abhorrant to the ideals of a republican democracy.

Hardly anyone begrudes someone working hard and becoming rich. That's not the issue. The issue is a system that is gamed to allow the concentration of wealth in an increasingly tiny portion of the population. That's antithetic to a healthy democracy. That's what Russia is: a plutocracy. That's the model, among many others, of a nation state where wealth has been overwhelminnly and disporportionately concentrated in the hands of a few thousand people.

Take a gander at Warren Buffet's article on wealth. He says he pays a lower tax rate than his secretary or cleaning lady. The tax code is set up to protect weatlh, and investment wealth is increasingly, since the Reagan years, taxed at lower rates than income generated from actually working and making a wage.
What makes an earned wage more important than a dividend that a dividend should be taxed at a higher rate?

Is it because you perceive that a guy who works 40 hours a week adds more to the economy than a guy with a multimillion dollar investment portfolio?

Or does the multimillion dollar investment portfolio create more return economically when that money is used by banks and companies to build a hospital, to produce a product that changes people's lives for the better?

Whose production did more for the economy as a whole, the assembly line worker of the idle rich guy who invests his money?

Because average working people have to live on their wages. The majority of their income goes to basic living expenses.

Extrodinarily wealthy people who live off dividends, only spend a tiny fraction of their wealth on basic human needs.

That's why wage earners need to be given more consideration than trust fund babies.


Quote:
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."

-- ABRAHAM LINCOLN, Republican
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2009, 03:46 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Skull Pilot Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see images.
The concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a small minority is demonstrated throughout history to lead to plutocracy and the diminishment of democracy. In most cases, they led to failed nation states.

This is historical fact.

This is something the revolutionary founders were well aware of, and they found concentrations of wealth in the hands of a few to be abhorrant to the ideals of a republican democracy.

Hardly anyone begrudes someone working hard and becoming rich. That's not the issue. The issue is a system that is gamed to allow the concentration of wealth in an increasingly tiny portion of the population. That's antithetic to a healthy democracy. That's what Russia is: a plutocracy. That's the model, among many others, of a nation state where wealth has been overwhelminnly and disporportionately concentrated in the hands of a few thousand people.

Take a gander at Warren Buffet's article on wealth. He says he pays a lower tax rate than his secretary or cleaning lady. The tax code is set up to protect weatlh, and investment wealth is increasingly, since the Reagan years, taxed at lower rates than income generated from actually working and making a wage.
What makes an earned wage more important than a dividend that a dividend should be taxed at a higher rate?

Is it because you perceive that a guy who works 40 hours a week adds more to the economy than a guy with a multimillion dollar investment portfolio?

Or does the multimillion dollar investment portfolio create more return economically when that money is used by banks and companies to build a hospital, to produce a product that changes people's lives for the better?

Whose production did more for the economy as a whole, the assembly line worker of the idle rich guy who invests his money?

Because average working people have to live on their wages. The majority of their income goes to basic living expenses.

Extrodinarily wealthy people who live off dividends, only spend a tiny fraction of their wealth on basic human needs.

That's why wage earners need to be given more consideration than trust fund babies.


Quote:
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."

-- ABRAHAM LINCOLN, Republican
even though the money in the investment portfolio makes a job possible?

without the capital for business to invest in capital improvements, equipment and R&D, that assembly line wrench turner would not have an assembly line on which to work would he?
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2009, 04:02 PM
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Great Republican President Abraham Lincoln is right.

Anonoymous, rush limbaugh worshipping message board poster Skull Pilot is wrong.

Labor can exist without capital.

Captial cannot exist without labor. Its completely dependent on it.

Capital makes our lives better, and makes our economy more efficient. But people would survive without capitalism. It just wouldn't be as good.

Capitalism cannot exist without labor.


People are more important than captial.


Great republicans like Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt knew this. Labor deserves more consideration than capital.

Skull Pilot, Rush Limbaugh, and Sean Hannity don't get it.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2009, 04:44 PM
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10% of the people control 96% of the wealth in America.

This is the Republican Valhalla.
Warren Buffet and Bill Gates.
yes, but both of them agree to be taxed more....they both believe in the inheritance tax and both believe they should be taxed upon death....they both are giving away BILLIONS to charity as well...

Buffet is the one complaining that he pays less as a percentage in taxes than his secretary and that is fundamentally wrong.
Must be the Republican Valhalla.
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Old 02-01-2009, 04:53 PM
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Great Republican President Abraham Lincoln is right.

Anonoymous, rush limbaugh worshipping message board poster Skull Pilot is wrong.

Labor can exist without capital.

Captial cannot exist without labor. Its completely dependent on it.

Capital makes our lives better, and makes our economy more efficient. But people would survive without capitalism. It just wouldn't be as good.

Capitalism cannot exist without labor.


People are more important than captial.


Great republicans like Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt knew this. Labor deserves more consideration than capital.

Skull Pilot, Rush Limbaugh, and Sean Hannity don't get it.
And that is exactly why the Republican party screwed itself. To many got too greedy thinking since they could steal the labor from the poorest countries heck why not break the unions and do it right here at home.
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Old 02-01-2009, 06:06 PM
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The Republicans emptied the Treasury and then rode out of town.
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Old 02-01-2009, 06:24 PM
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Old 02-01-2009, 06:27 PM
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Old 02-01-2009, 06:28 PM
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Great Republican President Abraham Lincoln is right.

Anonoymous, rush limbaugh worshipping message board poster Skull Pilot is wrong.

Labor can exist without capital.

Captial cannot exist without labor. Its completely dependent on it.

Capital makes our lives better, and makes our economy more efficient. But people would survive without capitalism. It just wouldn't be as good.

Capitalism cannot exist without labor.


People are more important than captial.


Great republicans like Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt knew this. Labor deserves more consideration than capital.

Skull Pilot, Rush Limbaugh, and Sean Hannity don't get it.
And that is exactly why the Republican party screwed itself. To many got too greedy thinking since they could steal the labor from the poorest countries heck why not break the unions and do it right here at home.
ya.....i hear all the rich dems gave all their money away....
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Old 02-01-2009, 06:30 PM
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The Republicans emptied the Treasury and then rode out of town.
And left the mess in the lap of the Dems who will humiliate themselves in an attempt to prove socialism is the answer. In which case, four years from now the republicans will run a Romney-ish type who will defeat Obama, thus ending any chances the dems had for turning this country into a marxist dictatorship.

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Old 02-01-2009, 07:19 PM
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The Republicans emptied the Treasury and then rode out of town.
And left the mess in the lap of the Dems who will humiliate themselves in an attempt to prove socialism is the answer. In which case, four years from now the republicans will run a Romney-ish type who will defeat Obama, thus ending any chances the dems had for turning this country into a marxist dictatorship.

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Dream on, dream on!
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