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Buys Ad To Warn About Socialism

This is a discussion on Buys Ad To Warn About Socialism within the Economy forums, part of the US Discussion category; Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalChic Quote: Originally Posted by NoNukes Quote: Originally Posted by Rshermr And here again, is proof of the conservative studies. Politicalchic ...


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  #136 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2012, 11:42 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalChic View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by NoNukes View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Rshermr View Post
And here again, is proof of the conservative studies. Politicalchic attacks others as being less than her, and calls herself wise. She is Delusional. But normal for con tools.
She is actually in love with me. Positive reps me, sends me private messages. It is actually a bit embarrassing. Do not tell Daveman, he is her new puppy and would be devastated.
What a blabber-mouth!
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  #137 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:17 AM
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Why do Americans fear Socialism? Do they equate it with Communism?
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Old 10-16-2012, 06:06 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by NoNukes View Post
Why do Americans fear Socialism? Do they equate it with Communism?

Now...for today's lesson in the history of economic theory.....

From a speech by Rev. Robert A. Sirico, President, Acton Institute for the Study of Religion and Liberty.
Delivered at Hillsdale College, October 27, 2006
https://www.hillsdale.edu/news/impri...=2007&month=05

1. Modern history presents us with two divergent models of economic arrangement: socialism, and capitalism. One of these appears preoccupied with the common good, and social betterment, the other with profits and production.

2. In its modern beginnings, socialism was optimistic and well intentioned, without the overlay of its contemporary varieties that tend to bemoan prosperity, romanticize poverty, and promote a view that place individual rights are a secondary concern. This is to say that the earliest socialists sought the fullest possible flourishing of humanity, “the common good.”

3. A half-century before Karl Marx published the Communist Manifesto, there was Gracchus Babeuf’s 'Plebeian Manifesto,' which was later renamed the 'Manifesto of the Equals.' Babeuf’s early (1796) work has been described as socialist, anarchist, and communist, and has had an enormous impact.

He wrote: “The French Revolution was nothing but a precursor of another revolution, on which will be bigger, more solemn, and which will be the last…We reach for something more sublime and more just: the common good or the community of goods! Nor more individual property in land: the land belongs to no one. We demand, we want, the common enjoyment of the fruits of the land: the fruits belong to all.” Here, then, are the major themes of socialist theory. It takes very little interpolation to find that opponents profit at the expense of the environment, and conditions of inequality in society.

4. For Babeur, socialism would distribute prosperity across the entire population, as it would “[have] us eat four good meals a day, [dress} us most elegantly, and also [provide] those of us who are fathers of families with charming houses worth a thousand louis each.”

5. Oscar Wilde: “Under socialism…there will be no people living in fetid dens and fetid rags, and bringing up unhealthy, hunger pinched children in the midst of impossible and absolutely repulsive surroundings…Each member of society will share in the general prosperity and happiness of the society…”

6. Marxism rested on the assumption that the condition of the working classes would grow ever worse under capitalism, that there would be but two classes: one small and rich, the other vast and increasingly impoverished, and revolution would be the anodyne that would result in the “common good.” But by the early 20th century, it was clear that this assumption was completely wrong! Under capitalism, the standard of living of all was improving: prices falling, incomes rising, health and sanitation improving, lengthening of life spans, diets becoming more varied, the new jobs created in industry paid more than most could make in agriculture, housing improved, and middle class industrialists and business owners displaced nobility and gentry as heroes.

7. These economic advances continued throughout the period of the rise of socialist ideology. The poor didn’t get poorer because the rich were getting richer (a familiar socialist refrain even today) as the socialists had predicted. Instead, the underlying reality was that capitalism had created the first societies in history in which living standards were rising in all sectors of society.



So, you see, NoNoodles....."Why do Americans fear Socialism?" is no more than a bumper-sticker sans any real meaning.

Despising socialism in favor of capitalism is merely the sign of an educated mind.



You're welcome.
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  #139 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2012, 09:22 AM
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So, PoliticalChic is at it again, posting con dogma. In this last post, she exercised her skill at copy and paste of another article damning socialism. Just an opinion piece, by a priest or some such, but it fits PC's needs for con dogma.

Quote:
So, you see, NoNoodles....."Why do Americans fear Socialism?" is no more than a bumper-sticker sans any real meaning.
And, of course, that is more of Politicalchic's con drivel. "Americans" do not fear Socialism. Socialism is what fear mongering con bosses push, over and over, on their unwitting followers. And on to their tools, such as PC. Because, you see, socialism is simply an economic system. It is rarely an economic system that describes the entire economy of a nation. Because, you see, nearly all economies are MIXED. That is the reality, but the fear tactic of the right is to make the populace very, very afraid. Make them believe that the socialists are out to get them. Which is, of course, drivel.
As an example, Canada has single payer medical insurance. Which the right correctly labels as socialist. Not socialist mecicine, as the right preaches, but socialist medical insurance. So, the canadian gov periodically does poling to see how that is going. And every time, the key question to most of us in the us is concerned, is would the canadians rather have their socialist medical insurance or the US version of medical insurance. And in every case, the results are that more than 97% of the respondants want to stay with their own Canadian version of health care insurance.
Yet the cons say that the canadians can not get medical services, that they are dying for lack of medical service, and that they are streaming to the US to get medical service. Yet every study says that these charges are incorrect. Simply more of the con dogma. BECAUSE, medical insurance is PROFITABLE, and those profitable companies pay their politicians to protect them. And con tools like PC say whatever the dogma being preached is. Simple as that.
So, you get a bunch of tools like PC, preaching the dogma. Many are paid, by the organizations that educate and push the dogma forward. Very, very, very dishonest, and some would say, very, very very Un-American.
So, based on the studies out there, where are the best economies? Depends on how you rate them.

In terms of satisfaction of the populaces, we are somewhere around number 23. And number 23 would indicate that there are 22 better than the US. Kind of sucks, eh, PC.
The 23 Best Countries for Work-Life Balance (We Are Number 23) - Derek Thompson - The Atlantic

In terms of the prosperity of the populaces of the nations, we are around number 10. And falling like a rock, over the past 35 years or so.
The 2011 Legatum Prosperity Index

But here is the real clincher. In either of the above rankings, the nations above us all have either socialist, or mostly socialist economies. Kind of makes you want to stop and think. Why is it that con tools like PC are preaching fear of socialism???

Quote:
Despising socialism in favor of capitalism is merely the sign of an educated mind.
No, PC, it is the sign of a mind bent by con tools like you. It is a sign of people controlled by money from above. And it is a sign of the inability to think, and to consider, what is going on in the rest of the world

Quote:
You're welcome.
For what, PC? For you posting more dogma??
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  #140 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2012, 09:48 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by NoNukes View Post
Why do Americans fear Socialism? Do they equate it with Communism?
Because Socialism is the light form of Communism.
Socialism- government owned business.
Our Government now owns stocks in GM.
Democtatic management of the essential means for the production and distribution of goods.
This is Socialism in full production, right here right now;

Americans could lose the right to resell their own possessions - TechSpot News

Supreme Court has hearing on Oc.t 29th and we may not be able to sell the things that we own.
A change in the law could have a profound effect on the entire country. Sites like eBay and especially Craigslist would no doubt suffer. Trading in an old vehicle towards something new would be a nightmare. Manufacturers might even see overseas production as an incentive to cash in on resale later on in a product’s life. The list goes on and on but we’ll stop there for the sake of brevity.
The doctrine, recognized by the Supreme Court since 1908, states that the copyright holder only has controller over the first sale.
If this is changed we can no longer sell our own goods that we own (no more yard sales people).
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  #141 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2012, 01:48 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Rshermr View Post
Yet the cons say that the canadians can not get medical services, that they are dying for lack of medical service,
As usual a liberal will be too slow for words!! If communism or socialism worked China would go back to it and give up the fastest economic growth rates in human history!!


Chaoulli v. Quebec
The majority opinion stated: "The evidence in this case shows that delays in the public health care system are widespread, and that, in some serious cases, patients die as a result of waiting lists for public health care".

Middle-aged 'being denied cancer surgery' - Telegraph
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  #142 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2012, 01:54 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by NoNukes View Post

Why do Americans fear Socialism?
because it produced en masse starvation and genocide. See why we are 1000% sure a liberal will be slow??


Quote: Originally Posted by NoNukes View Post
Do they equate it with Communism?
Again, too stipid and liberal by 1000%. Marx invented socialism and said it was merely a transitional state on route to communism, so of course any sane person fears communism.

Marx also said capitalism would concentrate wealth, lead to class warfare, and a communist take over of a capitalist economy. This is essentially Barry's point of view which explains to why the president who had 2 communist parents and voted to the left of Bernie Sanders is doing so much to promote class warfare!!
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  #143 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2012, 02:03 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Rshermr View Post
But here is the real clincher. In either of the above rankings, the nations above us all have either socialist, or mostly socialist economies.

Of course that is 100% idiotic and liberal based on CIA fact book or OECD that place us first among major industrial countries. Not to mention that we have the highest business taxes in the world and get 40% of all federal revenue from the top1%( more than any other country) so can't be seen as much less socialist than much of the world!!

See why we are positive a liberal will be slow, so very very slow??


Rank Country Value Date of Info
1 Qatar $145,300 2010 est.
2 Liechtenstein $122,100 2007 est.
3 Luxembourg $81,800 2010 est.
4 Bermuda $69,900 2004 est.
5 Singapore $62,200 2010 est.
6 Norway $59,100 2010 est.
7 Jersey $57,000 2005 est.
8 Kuwait $51,700 2010 est.
9 Brunei $50,300 2010 est.
10 United States $47,400 2010 est.
11 Hong Kong $45,600 2010 est.
12 Andorra $44,900 2008
13 Guernsey $44,600 2005
14 Cayman Islands $43,800 2004 est.
15 Switzerland $42,900 2010 est.
16 San Marino $41,900 2007
17 Australia $41,300 2010 est.
18 Netherlands $40,500 2010 est.
19 Bahrain $40,400 2010 est.
20 Austria $40,300 2010 est.
21 United Arab Emirates $40,200 2010 est.
22 Canada $39,600 2010 est.
23 Sweden $39,000 2010 est.
24 British Virgin Islands $38,500 2004 est.
25 Iceland $38,400 2010 est.
25 Gibraltar $38,400 2006 est.
26 Equatorial Guinea $37,900 2010 est.
26 Belgium $37,900 2010 est.
27 Ireland $37,600 2010 est.
28 Denmark $37,000 2010 est.
29 Germany $35,900 2010 est.
29 Greenland $35,900 2007 est.
30 Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas) $35,400 2002 est.
31 Finland $35,300 2010 est.
32 Taiwan $35,100 2010 est.
32 United Kingdom $35,100 2010 est.
33 Isle of Man $35,000 2005 est.
34 Japan $34,200 2010 est.
35 Faroe Islands $34,000 2008 est.
36 France $33,300 2010 est.
37 Macau $33,000 2009
38 European Union $32,900 2010 est.
39 Italy $30,700 2010 est.
40 Korea, South $30,200 2010 est.
40 Greece $30,200 2010 est.
41 Monaco $30,000 2006 est.
42 Spain $29,500 2010 est.
42 Israel
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  #144 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2012, 02:10 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalChic View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by NoNukes View Post
Why do Americans fear Socialism? Do they equate it with Communism?

Now...for today's lesson in the history of economic theory.....

From a speech by Rev. Robert A. Sirico, President, Acton Institute for the Study of Religion and Liberty.
Delivered at Hillsdale College, October 27, 2006
https://www.hillsdale.edu/news/impri...=2007&month=05

1. Modern history presents us with two divergent models of economic arrangement: socialism, and capitalism. One of these appears preoccupied with the common good, and social betterment, the other with profits and production.

2. In its modern beginnings, socialism was optimistic and well intentioned, without the overlay of its contemporary varieties that tend to bemoan prosperity, romanticize poverty, and promote a view that place individual rights are a secondary concern. This is to say that the earliest socialists sought the fullest possible flourishing of humanity, “the common good.”

3. A half-century before Karl Marx published the Communist Manifesto, there was Gracchus Babeuf’s 'Plebeian Manifesto,' which was later renamed the 'Manifesto of the Equals.' Babeuf’s early (1796) work has been described as socialist, anarchist, and communist, and has had an enormous impact.

He wrote: “The French Revolution was nothing but a precursor of another revolution, on which will be bigger, more solemn, and which will be the last…We reach for something more sublime and more just: the common good or the community of goods! Nor more individual property in land: the land belongs to no one. We demand, we want, the common enjoyment of the fruits of the land: the fruits belong to all.” Here, then, are the major themes of socialist theory. It takes very little interpolation to find that opponents profit at the expense of the environment, and conditions of inequality in society.

4. For Babeur, socialism would distribute prosperity across the entire population, as it would “[have] us eat four good meals a day, [dress} us most elegantly, and also [provide] those of us who are fathers of families with charming houses worth a thousand louis each.”

5. Oscar Wilde: “Under socialism…there will be no people living in fetid dens and fetid rags, and bringing up unhealthy, hunger pinched children in the midst of impossible and absolutely repulsive surroundings…Each member of society will share in the general prosperity and happiness of the society…”

6. Marxism rested on the assumption that the condition of the working classes would grow ever worse under capitalism, that there would be but two classes: one small and rich, the other vast and increasingly impoverished, and revolution would be the anodyne that would result in the “common good.” But by the early 20th century, it was clear that this assumption was completely wrong! Under capitalism, the standard of living of all was improving: prices falling, incomes rising, health and sanitation improving, lengthening of life spans, diets becoming more varied, the new jobs created in industry paid more than most could make in agriculture, housing improved, and middle class industrialists and business owners displaced nobility and gentry as heroes.

7. These economic advances continued throughout the period of the rise of socialist ideology. The poor didn’t get poorer because the rich were getting richer (a familiar socialist refrain even today) as the socialists had predicted. Instead, the underlying reality was that capitalism had created the first societies in history in which living standards were rising in all sectors of society.



So, you see, NoNoodles....."Why do Americans fear Socialism?" is no more than a bumper-sticker sans any real meaning.

Despising socialism in favor of capitalism is merely the sign of an educated mind.



You're welcome.
Guess there are no educated minds in Europe. You are going to have to stop reading Anne Coulter, she is turning your brains to mush.
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  #145 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2012, 02:15 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by EdwardBaiamonte View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by NoNukes View Post

Why do Americans fear Socialism?
because it produced en masse starvation and genocide. See why we are 1000% sure a liberal will be slow??


Quote: Originally Posted by NoNukes View Post
Do they equate it with Communism?
Again, too stipid and liberal by 1000%. Marx invented socialism and said it was merely a transitional state on route to communism, so of course any sane person fears communism.

Marx also said capitalism would concentrate wealth, lead to class warfare, and a communist take over of a capitalist economy. This is essentially Barry's point of view which explains to why the president who had 2 communist parents and voted to the left of Bernie Sanders is doing so much to promote class warfare!!
Get out of the gutter, someone is blocking your world view.
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  #146 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2012, 02:18 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by NoNukes View Post
Guess there are no educated minds in Europe.
dear, mankind stood still politically for 100,000 years before capitalism instantly transformed life on this planet so it not hard to imagine that Europe would be a few 100 years behind us in their political/economic thinking!

Don't forget, we rescued them and recreated them during WW2 so it is no surprise that they are not thinking so well at this early point in their modern development.
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:24 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by NoNukes View Post
Get out of the gutter, someone is blocking your world view.

You don't seem intelligent enough to be here. If there is something wrong with the conservative/libertarian world view you must say why it is wrong!! Do you understand???
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  #148 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2012, 02:38 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by NoNukes View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalChic View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by NoNukes View Post
Why do Americans fear Socialism? Do they equate it with Communism?

Now...for today's lesson in the history of economic theory.....

From a speech by Rev. Robert A. Sirico, President, Acton Institute for the Study of Religion and Liberty.
Delivered at Hillsdale College, October 27, 2006
https://www.hillsdale.edu/news/impri...=2007&month=05

1. Modern history presents us with two divergent models of economic arrangement: socialism, and capitalism. One of these appears preoccupied with the common good, and social betterment, the other with profits and production.

2. In its modern beginnings, socialism was optimistic and well intentioned, without the overlay of its contemporary varieties that tend to bemoan prosperity, romanticize poverty, and promote a view that place individual rights are a secondary concern. This is to say that the earliest socialists sought the fullest possible flourishing of humanity, “the common good.”

3. A half-century before Karl Marx published the Communist Manifesto, there was Gracchus Babeuf’s 'Plebeian Manifesto,' which was later renamed the 'Manifesto of the Equals.' Babeuf’s early (1796) work has been described as socialist, anarchist, and communist, and has had an enormous impact.

He wrote: “The French Revolution was nothing but a precursor of another revolution, on which will be bigger, more solemn, and which will be the last…We reach for something more sublime and more just: the common good or the community of goods! Nor more individual property in land: the land belongs to no one. We demand, we want, the common enjoyment of the fruits of the land: the fruits belong to all.” Here, then, are the major themes of socialist theory. It takes very little interpolation to find that opponents profit at the expense of the environment, and conditions of inequality in society.

4. For Babeur, socialism would distribute prosperity across the entire population, as it would “[have] us eat four good meals a day, [dress} us most elegantly, and also [provide] those of us who are fathers of families with charming houses worth a thousand louis each.”

5. Oscar Wilde: “Under socialism…there will be no people living in fetid dens and fetid rags, and bringing up unhealthy, hunger pinched children in the midst of impossible and absolutely repulsive surroundings…Each member of society will share in the general prosperity and happiness of the society…”

6. Marxism rested on the assumption that the condition of the working classes would grow ever worse under capitalism, that there would be but two classes: one small and rich, the other vast and increasingly impoverished, and revolution would be the anodyne that would result in the “common good.” But by the early 20th century, it was clear that this assumption was completely wrong! Under capitalism, the standard of living of all was improving: prices falling, incomes rising, health and sanitation improving, lengthening of life spans, diets becoming more varied, the new jobs created in industry paid more than most could make in agriculture, housing improved, and middle class industrialists and business owners displaced nobility and gentry as heroes.

7. These economic advances continued throughout the period of the rise of socialist ideology. The poor didn’t get poorer because the rich were getting richer (a familiar socialist refrain even today) as the socialists had predicted. Instead, the underlying reality was that capitalism had created the first societies in history in which living standards were rising in all sectors of society.



So, you see, NoNoodles....."Why do Americans fear Socialism?" is no more than a bumper-sticker sans any real meaning.

Despising socialism in favor of capitalism is merely the sign of an educated mind.



You're welcome.
Guess there are no educated minds in Europe. You are going to have to stop reading Anne Coulter, she is turning your brains to mush.
1. Isn't that just like a liberal, trying to tell me what to read and what not to read....



2. "Guess there are no educated minds in Europe."

Must I be responsible for your entire education????

a. Only a short while ago some European politicians were touting the European social model’s superiority over what many continental Europeans deride as “Anglo-Saxon capitalism.”

b. Now, however, governments across Europe are scrambling to avoid the fate of Greece. Moreover, they are doing so by contemplating—and, in some cases, implementing—the hitherto unthinkable: reducing their budget deficits by diminishing the expansive welfare states to which many Europeans have long been accustomed.

c. …several decades of low economic growth. As the Czech president Václav Klaus recently observed, “average annual economic growth in the eurozone countries was 3.4 percent in the 1970s, 2.4 percent in the 1980s, 2.2 percent in the 1990s and only 1.1 percent from 2001 to 2009.” “A similar slowdown,” Klaus added, “has not occurred anywhere else in the world.”

d. The modern European welfare state goes back to the late nineteenth century when Otto von Bismarck, Imperial Germany’s ruthless “Iron Chancellor,” introduced state social insurance in an undisguised attempt to placate the growing German industrial working class and the ever-increasing number of Social Democrats they elected to the German legislature. Far too many Europeans now simply assume a munificent welfare state as part of the economic landscape. Indeed the increasing number of older West Europeans today has no incentive to change. Their attitude might be described as “Après moi, le déluge.”

MercatorNet: Fatal attraction: democracy and the welfare state
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:26 PM
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You know PC, these polarized arguments you constantly post day after day can only be interpreted as coming from a severely dogmatic mind. Your doctrinaire always relies on liberals being as extreme as you are. We are not, never were and never will be. Liberals in America believe in capitalism, support capitalism and practice capitalism. But, capitalism is not a religion, it is an economic philosophy. It works very well in many areas of our policies, but fails miserably in others. You yourself say people are basically evil, and without rules and regulations, people can perpetrate evil in a capitalistic or a socialistic society.

History teaches us that a mixed economy performs better than pure capitalism or pure socialism. THAT is what liberals promote.
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:56 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Bfgrn View Post
You know PC, these polarized arguments you constantly post day after day can only be interpreted as coming from a severely dogmatic mind. Your doctrinaire always relies on liberals being as extreme as you are. We are not, never were and never will be. Liberals in America believe in capitalism, support capitalism and practice capitalism. But, capitalism is not a religion, it is an economic philosophy. It works very well in many areas of our policies, but fails miserably in others. You yourself say people are basically evil, and without rules and regulations, people can perpetrate evil in a capitalistic or a socialistic society.

History teaches us that a mixed economy performs better than pure capitalism or pure socialism. THAT is what liberals promote.
Why didn't ya' tell me that you wanted a different kind of post???
No prob!

1. "You know PC,..."
Unless you were introducing me to your imaginary friends, a comma is required after 'You know,' ...."You know, PC......"

2. "...can only be interpreted as coming from a severely dogmatic mind."
Awkward construction. Better: "...can only be interpreted as being extremely dogmatic."

3. "Your doctrinaire always relies on liberals being as extreme...."
How the heck to fix this? "Your doctrines...." or "Your thesis always present Liberals as
far-Left, and/or extreme.


4. " Liberals in America believe in capitalism,..."

OK...now you've done it! This stretches credulity further than can be accepted!


5. "You yourself say people are basically evil,...."
A fib.
I've never said that.

6. "History teaches us that a mixed economy performs better than pure capitalism or pure socialism. THAT is what liberals promote."
Yippeee....agreement!

Now the question of where the right mix, the correct percentages end up.

Examples?
a. Taxation....you down with the Laffer Curve? Say....no more than 32-35% total?

b. Big Government regulations?

More and more bureaus and agencies endowed with ever broader responsibilities and discretion in defining the rules that govern our activities and our lives. And these rules have the full force of law! Congress has increased the number of rules whose infractions are criminalized, waiving the common law requirement that one knows he is breaking the law. Today, one can be jailed for violating a regulation that one had no reason to know even existed!

officials in these agencies often cannot see the consequences on other parts of society. Put this together with human nature, and one can see bullying, and misuse of power, especially when these individuals are immune to penalty, and supported by free and extensive legal representation: they have sovereign immunity in their positions.

A remedy would be the ability of citizens to sue the federal government to protect their legitimate interests, for damages. While currently unconstitutional, the Congress can waive sovereign immunity.

Such a congressional waiver would not only protect the citizenry, but would go far toward defining the limits of federal authority.



Wadda ya' say? Ready to put you 'John Hancock' on the dotted line?

Are ya,' huh?

You can trust me....I know what's right!
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