'What We Owe to Each Other'

If I had information to the contrary then I'd have stimulus that would, perhaps, be capable of convincing me otherwise. Currently I do not, and all you're offering is conjecture without any sort of logical buildup.

The crux of our argument, whether the altering of ones own belief is a simple act of will, completely separate from any stimuli, doesn't depend on whether or not those beliefs actually control the nature of reality. Whether gravity is or is not under my power is immaterial. What I'm saying is that if belief were an act of will truly separate from the need for stimuli, then I should be able to make myself believe that gravity will not affect me any time I wanted to, even if I would be wrong in that belief.

Lastly, my misconceptions about the specifics of hypnosis are by no means a basis for my observations on the nature of beliefs. Regardless of exactly what method is used, hypnosis is a transfer of information. Information is a stimulus outside of your will power. Hypnosis altering beliefs is not proof that doing so is an act of will free from any dependence on information received. (When I say received, I don't even mean necessarily from outside of your own conscious. Often times, thinking critically and honestly about your beliefs will lead you down roads of logic that let you know that some of your beliefs contradict other core principles, and adjustments are inevitably made. Even in that, however, it's not a simple act of will. You either find the line of reasoning compelling or you do not, there's not a conscious choice in that.

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"Ask Milton Friedman's dead Jew corpse what he think 'bout the current economic situation, and he will tell you, 'you better tighten up your shit pussy'. . . " - Doug Stanhope

I'm offering no conjecture at all...It's your imagination...If you cannot imagine what it would be like, that's your self-imposed limitation, not mine.

Also, using something that you cannot control (gravity) as an analogy or metaphor for something you can control (your thoughts and beliefs), is yet another way you've imposed limits upon yourself as to what's possible, via your system of belief.

Better you than me.

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actually my plumber has an assistent he pays, he doesn't ask me to help or flag down a passer by to help.

why not start over with an example of communism that works better than it worked in the USSR, Cuba and Red China????? Now you must see why we are positive that liberalism is merely the inability to think accompanied by a strong desire to think despite the impossibility of it.

The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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I was so depressed last night thinking about the economy, wars, jobs, my savings, Social Security, retirement funds, etc., I called the Suicide Hotline. I got a call center in Pakistan , and when I told them I was suicidal, they got all excited, and asked if I could drive a truck...

*yawn*

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Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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Conservatives = Police State
Liberals = Nanny State
Libertarians = Free State

DISCLAIMER: I'm here for my entertainment, not yours. If any of the above offends you, you deserve it. It's the Internet, not real life. Click here if this bothers you.

genius perspective

no doubt lost among the greedy.....

~S~

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I was so depressed last night thinking about the economy, wars, jobs, my savings, Social Security, retirement funds, etc., I called the Suicide Hotline. I got a call center in Pakistan , and when I told them I was suicidal, they got all excited, and asked if I could drive a truck...

The greedy communists or the greedy capitalists?

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Conservatives = Police State
Liberals = Nanny State
Libertarians = Free State

DISCLAIMER: I'm here for my entertainment, not yours. If any of the above offends you, you deserve it. It's the Internet, not real life. Click here if this bothers you.

No offense,but you're clearly missing how the gravity example logically supports my opinion, because your responses aren't actually addressing it in relation with the crux of the argument. They're just vague assumptions that I've limited my scope by comparing beliefs with things I have no control over. That's not at all what the gravity example illustrates. At any rate, unless there's going to be 2 way debate (i.e. point, backing, et al), I'm gonna go ahead and bow out of this conversation and agree to disagree.

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"Ask Milton Friedman's dead Jew corpse what he think 'bout the current economic situation, and he will tell you, 'you better tighten up your shit pussy'. . . " - Doug Stanhope

I like to say that David Graeber is an idiot.

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Do I have to personally be greedy to recognize that most people operate on self interest? Do i have to be a thief to recognize that the honor system is a horribly risky way to sell anything?

I didn't come to my conclusions because I'm against giving charitably and wanted to find philosophical justification, much as you would love to think it. That would be the same as me saying that all of you who support communism just want to be lazy as shit and have people with jobs give you money. That would be an awfully simplistic and most likely untrue assessment, no?

On top of this the philosophy isn't just morally just all self interest, it's morally justifying self interest exercised in an honest manner. The implications are vastly different, if you care to take the time and think about it.

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"Ask Milton Friedman's dead Jew corpse what he think 'bout the current economic situation, and he will tell you, 'you better tighten up your shit pussy'. . . " - Doug Stanhope

Pseudo-science attempting to explain liberal covetousness. Figures you'd be impressed by it.

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"It never worked before because America always interfered! When WE organize it, it'll be perfect!!" /American leftist

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No, I'm missing how the gravity example supports your opinion, in your opinion.

After that, comparing the vast diversity of human thought, subjective experience and infinite behavioral flexibility, with a narrowly defined law of physics that can be positively identified, quantified and is pretty much immutable (that we know of) is selling yourself way short.

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The modern liberal is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for covetousness.

Me

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