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4th Grade Science Test

This is a discussion on 4th Grade Science Test within the Current Events forums, part of the US Discussion category; Quote: Originally Posted by hortysir "Remains to be seen" No source, no evidence, only hearsay But, hey, it's Snopes See what June brings Not hearsay ...


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  #166 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2013, 01:20 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by hortysir View Post
"Remains to be seen"
No source, no evidence, only hearsay

But, hey, it's Snopes


See what June brings
Not hearsay

They have a copy of the test (both pages) and have spoken to the parents who claim it is true

But lets identify the school in a month or so and see if they fess up
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  #167 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2013, 01:21 PM
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The most difficult thing for a scientist to accept and say "I DON'T KNOW". Because of this inability to admit lack of information they often spout theory as fact. I will never forget Bill Maher as quoting some scientist as saying gases passed from one cow does more damage to create global warming than a car driving 1.2 billion miles (I am unsure of the exact miles he quoted but it was along those unbelievable lines). Coming up with stupid things such as this has hurt the credibility of real science. The ongoing study and theories based on collected data is what science means to me. If this is truly what science is then it will continually change as data is collected and the many variables are uncovered. Science is necessary for the many improvements that we have become accustomed to.
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  #168 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2013, 01:47 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by bornright View Post
The most difficult thing for a scientist to accept and say "I DON'T KNOW". Because of this inability to admit lack of information they often spout theory as fact. I will never forget Bill Maher as quoting some scientist as saying gases passed from one cow does more damage to create global warming than a car driving 1.2 billion miles (I am unsure of the exact miles he quoted but it was along those unbelievable lines). Coming up with stupid things such as this has hurt the credibility of real science. The ongoing study and theories based on collected data is what science means to me. If this is truly what science is then it will continually change as data is collected and the many variables are uncovered. Science is necessary for the many improvements that we have become accustomed to.
Total crap

Scientists live off of "I don't know" and there are strict processes they go through before they can even begin to validate a theory
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  #169 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2013, 02:06 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by rightwinger View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by bornright View Post
The most difficult thing for a scientist to accept and say "I DON'T KNOW". Because of this inability to admit lack of information they often spout theory as fact. I will never forget Bill Maher as quoting some scientist as saying gases passed from one cow does more damage to create global warming than a car driving 1.2 billion miles (I am unsure of the exact miles he quoted but it was along those unbelievable lines). Coming up with stupid things such as this has hurt the credibility of real science. The ongoing study and theories based on collected data is what science means to me. If this is truly what science is then it will continually change as data is collected and the many variables are uncovered. Science is necessary for the many improvements that we have become accustomed to.
Total crap

Scientists live off of "I don't know" and there are strict processes they go through before they can even begin to validate a theory
An honest scientist is willing to admit that the things he does not know far outnumber the things that he does know. I don't think real scientists have a problem admitting that the things they teach are theory. The problem is that people who read these works and spread them aren't willing to accept the distinction. LoneLaugher is more adamant in denying God's existence than most faithful Christians are in affirming it. To him, if evolution were only a theory he could not be so certain. To him evolution is writ more holy than the bible is to any Christian and damn any man who dare trespass there.

Admitting something is a theory does not admit that it is false. Admitting that something is a theory means admitting that though all these facts line up in this manner there is a possibility of another explanation for the same facts. The people who lie to themselves and say science is anything else are just laughable.

Seriously. It won't kill you to admit that evolution is a theory. As in the Theory of Evolution. That does not mean it didn't happen. Grow up.

(yahuh. nuhuh. yahuh. nuhuh.)
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  #170 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2013, 02:29 PM
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Most people forget what is meant by a "theory."

A theory is an explanation of the unknown, based on all we know with certainty. As more information comes to light, the theory either becomes more likely true or less likely true, in which case it is normally replaced with another theory that works better.

We will never have photos or films of the origins of the universe, so "scientists" develop theories based on what we can see and observe. In my lifetime there have been huge swings of opinion on facts such as whether the universe is stable or expanding or shrinking. The "Big Bang," is just a theory that makes some people happy. In every case, there are astrophysicists standing in front of audiences claiming that "now we finally know the truth." Well, maybe.

The same is now true about climate science. And unfortunately, the people with the loudest voices (e.g., Al Gore) have the least scientific bona fides, and are probably YEARS behind the current science. But once a certain story becomes fixed in the public consciousness, those who point out flaws or inconvenient contrary facts are scorned as "flat earthers" and such. By people who failed high school chemistry and went into journalism or "Fine Arts." Ironic, isn't it?

The theory of Evolution works fantastically well to explain a lot about the diversity of nature, and is thus universally accepted by the various scientific communities. In fact, it explains things so well that there is no real reason to teach other explanations, which invariably include unknown causes. But there are a lot of things that Evolution cannot explain. Simple organisms do not "evolve" into more complex organisms. Time lines of evolution of specific species (e.g., modern horses) are not borne out by the archaeological record. Human history does not record the evolution of any trait of any existing species. No existing species naturally grew another leg, or got bigger or changed in any material way.

But the Bible is not a scientific account and it is folly to try to view it scientifically. It is an explanation of the unknown by those with no scientific knowledge whatsoever.

In my view, biology courses at the college level might be justified in teaching some of the problems with Evolution, but for educational purposes it should be taught as scientific orthodoxy through high school. Anyone who can't reconcile the Bible with science has a personal problem. It's not a problem with the world.
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  #171 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2013, 02:35 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by HereAmIAmMe View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by rightwinger View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by bornright View Post
The most difficult thing for a scientist to accept and say "I DON'T KNOW". Because of this inability to admit lack of information they often spout theory as fact. I will never forget Bill Maher as quoting some scientist as saying gases passed from one cow does more damage to create global warming than a car driving 1.2 billion miles (I am unsure of the exact miles he quoted but it was along those unbelievable lines). Coming up with stupid things such as this has hurt the credibility of real science. The ongoing study and theories based on collected data is what science means to me. If this is truly what science is then it will continually change as data is collected and the many variables are uncovered. Science is necessary for the many improvements that we have become accustomed to.
Total crap

Scientists live off of "I don't know" and there are strict processes they go through before they can even begin to validate a theory
An honest scientist is willing to admit that the things he does not know far outnumber the things that he does know. I don't think real scientists have a problem admitting that the things they teach are theory. The problem is that people who read these works and spread them aren't willing to accept the distinction. LoneLaugher is more adamant in denying God's existence than most faithful Christians are in affirming it. To him, if evolution were only a theory he could not be so certain. To him evolution is writ more holy than the bible is to any Christian and damn any man who dare trespass there.

Admitting something is a theory does not admit that it is false. Admitting that something is a theory means admitting that though all these facts line up in this manner there is a possibility of another explanation for the same facts. The people who lie to themselves and say science is anything else are just laughable.

Seriously. It won't kill you to admit that evolution is a theory. As in the Theory of Evolution. That does not mean it didn't happen. Grow up.

(yahuh. nuhuh. yahuh. nuhuh.)
Evolution is a Fact........God is a theory
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  #172 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2013, 03:08 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by rightwinger View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by hortysir View Post
"Remains to be seen"
No source, no evidence, only hearsay

But, hey, it's Snopes


See what June brings
Not hearsay

They have a copy of the test (both pages) and have spoken to the parents who claim it is true

But lets identify the school in a month or so and see if they fess up
They CLAIM to have spoken to the (un-named) parents who CLAIM to have copies of the test.

But, yes, I'd be very interested in seeing what June brings.

If it's a private school, so what? It's their money to waste on Biblically incorrect teachings.

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  #173 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2013, 03:19 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by rightwinger View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by bornright View Post
The most difficult thing for a scientist to accept and say "I DON'T KNOW". Because of this inability to admit lack of information they often spout theory as fact. I will never forget Bill Maher as quoting some scientist as saying gases passed from one cow does more damage to create global warming than a car driving 1.2 billion miles (I am unsure of the exact miles he quoted but it was along those unbelievable lines). Coming up with stupid things such as this has hurt the credibility of real science. The ongoing study and theories based on collected data is what science means to me. If this is truly what science is then it will continually change as data is collected and the many variables are uncovered. Science is necessary for the many improvements that we have become accustomed to.
Total crap

Scientists live off of "I don't know" and there are strict processes they go through before they can even begin to validate a theory
Just because a person is considered to be a scientist by some does not mean he has the answer. The reason so many of these so-called facts have changed is in many cases caused by not being able to say "I don't know". It is easy to convince you have proof when you use selective data.
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:22 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by HereAmIAmMe View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by rightwinger View Post

Total crap

Scientists live off of "I don't know" and there are strict processes they go through before they can even begin to validate a theory
An honest scientist is willing to admit that the things he does not know far outnumber the things that he does know. I don't think real scientists have a problem admitting that the things they teach are theory. The problem is that people who read these works and spread them aren't willing to accept the distinction. LoneLaugher is more adamant in denying God's existence than most faithful Christians are in affirming it. To him, if evolution were only a theory he could not be so certain. To him evolution is writ more holy than the bible is to any Christian and damn any man who dare trespass there.

Admitting something is a theory does not admit that it is false. Admitting that something is a theory means admitting that though all these facts line up in this manner there is a possibility of another explanation for the same facts. The people who lie to themselves and say science is anything else are just laughable.

Seriously. It won't kill you to admit that evolution is a theory. As in the Theory of Evolution. That does not mean it didn't happen. Grow up.

(yahuh. nuhuh. yahuh. nuhuh.)
Evolution is a Fact........God is a theory
Come clean......you have to be a scientist......using the standard of the likes of Bill Maher anyway.
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  #175 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2013, 03:34 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by rightwinger View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by HereAmIAmMe View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by rightwinger View Post

Total crap

Scientists live off of "I don't know" and there are strict processes they go through before they can even begin to validate a theory
An honest scientist is willing to admit that the things he does not know far outnumber the things that he does know. I don't think real scientists have a problem admitting that the things they teach are theory. The problem is that people who read these works and spread them aren't willing to accept the distinction. LoneLaugher is more adamant in denying God's existence than most faithful Christians are in affirming it. To him, if evolution were only a theory he could not be so certain. To him evolution is writ more holy than the bible is to any Christian and damn any man who dare trespass there.

Admitting something is a theory does not admit that it is false. Admitting that something is a theory means admitting that though all these facts line up in this manner there is a possibility of another explanation for the same facts. The people who lie to themselves and say science is anything else are just laughable.

Seriously. It won't kill you to admit that evolution is a theory. As in the Theory of Evolution. That does not mean it didn't happen. Grow up.

(yahuh. nuhuh. yahuh. nuhuh.)
Evolution is a Fact........God is a theory
What is this? Another close-minded individual who cannot admit that evolution is still a theory? Can you not admit that man does not yet, nor is he ever likely to, possess all knowledge of the universe? Scientists make observations. They take measurements. They look at what we can see and make extrapolations based on this evidence. Science is an amazing study of the universe around us, but it is not complete. The day you close the book on science and call it done it will be outdated. It doesn't matter if you gather a million facts that support a theory. Until you can actually observe the entire process you cannot call it fact.

With no better explanation it can be taken as de facto truth, but not hard fact. But please, feel free to cover your head and scream, "I don't wanna! I don't wanna!" I can't open your eyes for you. Only you can do that.
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Old 04-25-2013, 05:14 PM
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Perhaps for the benefit of the limp wristers on here we can show what they teach in muslim schools? Maybe liberals will insult that too? Will you?
It is appears that Muslims are much closer to convention scientific thought in regard to creation and evolution than Christians.

Muslims interpret the description of a "six day" creation as six distinct periods or eons. The length of these periods is not precisely defined, nor are the specific developments that took place during each period.

Allah is never "done" with His work, because the process of creation is ongoing. Each new child who is born, every seed that sprouts into a sapling, every new species that appears on earth, is part of the ongoing process of Allah's creation.


Creation and Evolution in Islam
Muslims are not alone in teaching that the "seven days" mentioned in the bible do not correspond to seven 24 hour periods. Time is a relative concept. To a being that has no end how could time have any meaning? Especially such a small frame of time as 24 hours.

Anyways. Public schools should absolutely not teach anything as fact that has not been proven to be fact. That means that if they teach the big bang theory that they teach it as theory. If they teach a creationist theory they should teach it as theory. In both cases they would be responsible to make sure that the students are aware that it is not fact, but theory. I don't really care what theory you teach as long as you make it known that there is dissension as to the truth of the theory. For simplicity's sake public schools probably should stick to teaching the most widely accepted theory (as theory again) and at the same time challenging kids to think for themselves.

Teaching subject matter is not really as important as teaching how to learn. Teach kids how to use their brain and it won't really matter what facts you present to them. They will have learned how to seek knowledge on their own. That seems to be a bigger problem with schools these days. They are more concerned with teaching you some set of facts and making sure you parrot the right answers rather than teaching you how to find answers on your own.
It's very important that we teach kids to question, to research, to form an explanation, and test that explanation. If it doesn't stand up to the test, start over and form a new explanation.

Creationism is not scientific. If it's taught, it should taught as a part of theology, not science. It begins with a conclusion supported by the word of God. If evidence is presented that doesn't support that conclusion, then it has to be ignored because the creationist can't change the conclusion because it's the word of God.

Children being taught science should be taught to question everything and to change beliefs if the evidence warrants it. This is the most important concept in science, far more important than the age of earth or dinosaurs or even the theory of evolution.
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Old 04-25-2013, 05:16 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by HereAmIAmMe View Post
What is this? Another close-minded individual who cannot admit that evolution is still a theory? Can you not admit that man does not yet, nor is he ever likely to, possess all knowledge of the universe? Scientists make observations. They take measurements. They look at what we can see and make extrapolations based on this evidence. Science is an amazing study of the universe around us, but it is not complete. The day you close the book on science and call it done it will be outdated. It doesn't matter if you gather a million facts that support a theory. Until you can actually observe the entire process you cannot call it fact.
Theory is for all intents and purposes "facts as we know them". It doesn't mean "I guess". As far as the argument over evolution goes, it's up to the non-believers to disprove it. The proponents have so much evidence that all that the critics are capable of doing is nipping around the edges, forcing them to come up with a better explanation and, thereby, making the theory even stronger. Calling the scientists who whole-heartedly believe the theory is 100% correct "close-minded" is laughable, considering the kinds of arguments we hear from creationist/IDers. Until they can come up with the mountains of evidence that is available supporting evolution, they need to spend their time doing research and just shut up.
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  #178 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2013, 05:29 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by HereAmIAmMe View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by rightwinger View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by HereAmIAmMe View Post

An honest scientist is willing to admit that the things he does not know far outnumber the things that he does know. I don't think real scientists have a problem admitting that the things they teach are theory. The problem is that people who read these works and spread them aren't willing to accept the distinction. LoneLaugher is more adamant in denying God's existence than most faithful Christians are in affirming it. To him, if evolution were only a theory he could not be so certain. To him evolution is writ more holy than the bible is to any Christian and damn any man who dare trespass there.

Admitting something is a theory does not admit that it is false. Admitting that something is a theory means admitting that though all these facts line up in this manner there is a possibility of another explanation for the same facts. The people who lie to themselves and say science is anything else are just laughable.

Seriously. It won't kill you to admit that evolution is a theory. As in the Theory of Evolution. That does not mean it didn't happen. Grow up.

(yahuh. nuhuh. yahuh. nuhuh.)
Evolution is a Fact........God is a theory
What is this? Another close-minded individual who cannot admit that evolution is still a theory? Can you not admit that man does not yet, nor is he ever likely to, possess all knowledge of the universe? Scientists make observations. They take measurements. They look at what we can see and make extrapolations based on this evidence. Science is an amazing study of the universe around us, but it is not complete. The day you close the book on science and call it done it will be outdated. It doesn't matter if you gather a million facts that support a theory. Until you can actually observe the entire process you cannot call it fact.

With no better explanation it can be taken as de facto truth, but not hard fact. But please, feel free to cover your head and scream, "I don't wanna! I don't wanna!" I can't open your eyes for you. Only you can do that.
Evolution occurs. It is supported by biological, fossil and DNA evidence. It is a fact. The only theories relate to the mechanisms and processes that drive evolution........Evolution itself is FACT

God is at best a theory. A theory with no scientific evidence supporting it
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Old 04-25-2013, 05:45 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by hortysir View Post
The pic is relatively new.
It'll be debunked soon enough
I submitted it to Snopes yesterday. I haven't heard back but don't hold out much hope that they will pursue it, liberals that they are there.
Yeah, I could see how you'd consider someone devoted to debunking myths a "Liberal."
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  #180 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2013, 05:51 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Cuyo View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Ernie S. View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by hortysir View Post
The pic is relatively new.
It'll be debunked soon enough
I submitted it to Snopes yesterday. I haven't heard back but don't hold out much hope that they will pursue it, liberals that they are there.
Yeah, I could see how you'd consider someone devoted to debunking myths a "Liberal."
Especially since most of those myths are being generated by Conservatives
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