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Patriot Act up for renewal and no one notices

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2011, 10:43 PM
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The Patriot Act over-concentrates power in the executive, who now has vastly expanded discretion over law enforcement, the intelligence agencies, and the largest most secret bureaucracy in American history: the Department of Homeland Security.

Aside from increased surveillance, data tracking, and erosion of privacy & civil liberties, the most disconcerting element is the erasure of the line between political enemy and enemy combatant. It is now easier for Big Government to watch and imprison politically disruptive citizens. Welcome to the old Soviet Union where external and internal threats were used strategically by the KGB to place political enemies under a surveillance net.

The Bush fed used the Patriot Act to track the finances of one of their biggest enemies, Eliot Spitzer. Spitzer was highly critical of Bush's role in the housing mess, and he was the only person trying to prevent AIG from looting trillions in the derivatives market. Spitzer was in the process of visiting justice upon AIG president Hank Greenberg, who also happened to be a huge Bush ally. When Spitzer moved over 10K, the Bush Fed had him dead to rights. Consequently, AIG escaped from Spitzer's clutches, and their derivative crime goes unpunished. [Sadly, the Right does not know how much tax payer money AIG looted in the derivatives market]

The Patriot Act simply bestows more power on Big Government. In a perfect world, Big Government would use that power to protect us. But, Libertarians teach us, we don't live in a perfect world; rather, we live in a world where fallible humans always abuse concentrated power. The Libertarians teach us that government does not have the power to turn the middle east into a Democratic Utopia, or rid the world of evil, or keep every American 100% safe. Libertarians teach us to be realistic and pragmatic about the powers of big government, specifically if you give Government more power to protect you, you will not only be wasting money, but Government will abuse the power. Why? Because concentrated power is dangerous by definition. Why? Because government bureaucrats are fallible, i.e., we don't want them to have highly concentrated power. (Government always uses national security to increase its power; and the Right always falls for it BECAUSE they trust big government immensely)

Everyone knew that the Reagan Movement, reaching its apex under Bush, would result in a larger, more secretive government.

Bush's crown jewel, the Department of Homeland security, is now America's largest bureaucracy. It is a mess.
A hidden world, growing beyond control | washingtonpost.com

Bush used Patriot Act (KGB-style) to take down Spitzer, a political enemy.
The Spitzer Sex Sting: A Few More Questions?By Scott Horton (Harper's Magazine)
Was Eliot Spitzer Taken Out Because He Was Going to Bust AIG? | PEEK | AlterNet
Was Spitzer targeted?
# 25 Bush?s Real Problem with Eliot Spitzer | Project Censored
Spitzer Has Sinned, But It's Our Sex Obsession That's Criminal ? Forward.com

Here is why the Bush fed used the Patriot Act to get Spitzer
Eliot Spitzer - Predatory Lenders' Partner in Crime - washingtonpost.com

Why does the Right have so much trust in government? Why do they keep giving it more and more power?

Last edited by Londoner; 01-15-2011 at 11:31 PM.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2011, 02:26 PM
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H.R. 67 Patriot Act Renewal Set For Next Month

I see an easy PR victory for Obama when he veto's this evil legislation from the Republicons in the House. That is, if it even gets passed by the Democrat controlled Senate.
Patriot Act Faces Renewal in 2011 ? Left and Right News
Quote:
Deep within the controversial USA PATRIOT Act, originally passed in 2001, there are many surveillance tactics enacted through sunset provisions, which are parts of laws that have an expiration date unless legislative action extends them. While the sunset provisions of the PATRIOT Act are set to expire on February 28th, 2011, the government will likely extend these provisions. On the third day of the 112th Congress, Representative Mike Rogers (R-MI) introduced House Resolution 67. This bill would extend the sunset provisions of the PATRIOT Act until February 29th, 2012.
Republicons are such dupes, looking to pass shit legislation that they know will be voted down, just like the Health Care repeal last month. This bill doesn't stand a chance because Obama will veto this right?
















Right?
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Old 02-06-2011, 03:11 PM
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It depends on if you think Obama is more Stalin than Carter.

(I only mean in terms of political courage)

If he's Stalin, than he is going to act swiftly and brutally on behalf of his vision. If he is Carter, than he is likely to bend to the will of his political opponents.

I think he is more Cater than Stalin, and that he will do whatever his opponents want.

On another note. Passing something like The Patriot Act works best when the government is hyping terrorism on a daily basis. People are more likely to sacrifice privacy and civil rights if they feel a direct threat. Using fear to create Big Government Surveillance -- i.e., using fear to create a larger more intrusive government -- works better on Right wing voters because they tend to have higher levels of fear, and thus want more protection from big brother.

Playing the fear card is very hard to do when the Right doesn't have the presidency. During the Bush years, FOX would broadcast color coded warnings on a daily basis. They would overhype everything. Incompetent morons who couldn't tie their shoes were inflated into Hitler. The Terrorists loved it because they knew the Right would give them maximum news exposure -- which is what they wanted. This gave them more power in their homeland.

Terrorists love the American Rightwing because they are stupid enough to get America trapped in Iraqi and Afghan quicksand, like the Russians. The Right, because it uses fear and patriotism to win elections, and because it uses weapons contracts to fund its money loops, is corrupt enough to bankrupt America inside 3rd world mud holes. (Yes, I know: Obama is Bush lite)

The next big thing the Right has in store are biometric ID cards. They want all Americans too be more trackable by GPS. This is the kind of thing powerful governments do when they concentrate power and wealth in fewer hands. If you are going to get rid of the middle class and create an epidemic of poverty (in order to give the wealthy more money), you better beef up law enforcement to deal with the social unrest.

(Yawn. This is not rocket science. Study history)

Last edited by Londoner; 02-06-2011 at 03:19 PM.
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Old 02-06-2011, 03:19 PM
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You blame the Right but the Left is doing all those things you stated in yer posts. We were led to believe that Obama represented "change" yet the only change I see is Obama shifting the policies of George Bush into second or third gear.

Amirite?
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Old 02-06-2011, 03:25 PM
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Both parties are for the intrusion of Big Government into civil liberties such as with the Patriot Act. Not the kind of bipartisanship many Americans including myself want to see.
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Old 02-06-2011, 03:28 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Mad Scientist View Post
You blame the Right but the Left is doing all those things you stated in yer posts. We were led to believe that Obama represented "change" yet the only change I see is Obama shifting the policies of George Bush into second or third gear.

Amirite?
I agree. Obama is Carter, i.e., too weak to pursue a real liberal agenda; and certainly not courageous enough to oppose Big Pentagon, Big Oil, and Big Finance.

The party that opposed LBJ's Vietnam is dead. After the 60s they gave up on trying to reform Washington, and they disbanded. Whereas the Right federated and got stronger, creating a powerful movement under Reagan.

Once Clinton passed NAFTA and started courting Wall Street and big business, the Left died for good.

Sadly, it was the old Right who would have opposed the Patriot Act more than anyone. They used to be the most distrusting of Government Surveillance. The old Right is dead too. They are now willing to trade security for freedom, and they trust Washington with massive amounts of surveillance power. They created the department of Homeland Security -- one of the largest most bureaucratic most money sucking agencies ever. The Right loves big government.

Last edited by Londoner; 02-06-2011 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 02-06-2011, 03:42 PM
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The Patriot Act is a drug for the government. The government should learn to just say no.
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Old 02-06-2011, 03:46 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Mad Scientist View Post
I see an easy PR victory for Obama when he veto's this evil legislation from the Republicons in the House. That is, if it even gets passed by the Democrat controlled Senate.
Patriot Act Faces Renewal in 2011 ? Left and Right News
Quote:
Deep within the controversial USA PATRIOT Act, originally passed in 2001, there are many surveillance tactics enacted through sunset provisions, which are parts of laws that have an expiration date unless legislative action extends them. While the sunset provisions of the PATRIOT Act are set to expire on February 28th, 2011, the government will likely extend these provisions. On the third day of the 112th Congress, Representative Mike Rogers (R-MI) introduced House Resolution 67. This bill would extend the sunset provisions of the PATRIOT Act until February 29th, 2012.
Republicons are such dupes, looking to pass shit legislation that they know will be voted down, just like the Health Care repeal last month. This bill doesn't stand a chance because Obama will veto this right?
















Right?

why would he? Hes now into rendition and non judicial killings, BUT its all cool now....funny how that works.
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Barack Obama -Inaugural Address Jan 2009; "As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals. . . . Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake."

Barack Obama- Friday June 2013; "I think it's important to recognize that you can't have 100% security and also then have 100% privacy and zero inconvenience. We're going to have to make some choices as a society."
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Old 02-08-2011, 06:54 PM
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House Vote on Patriot Act Extensions Fails 277-148

Quote:
A plan that would have seen the House of Representatives extend controversial provisions of the Patriot Act with little debate failed Tuesday night, as a group of Republicans joined a majority of Democrats in voting no.
The House voted 277 to 148 for the Patriot Act extension -- 23 votes short of the two-thirds majority needed to pass it under a procedure that allows bills that aren't controversial to pass quickly.
But it appears the bill was controversial enough to convince some two dozen tea party-backed Republican freshmen to join a majority of Democrats in voting against it, The Hill reported.
Patriot Act fails on House floor — but it will be back | Raw Story
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2011, 06:57 PM
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Good that if did not pass. I wonder if they will combine it with tax cuts and food for starving children to get it to pass?

I found this very interesting from the OP link:
"as a group of Republicans joined a majority of Democrats in voting no."
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Old 02-08-2011, 06:58 PM
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3 specific provisions failed. And it failed because the Republicans tried to avoid any amendments, which requires a 2/3rds vote. They can resubmit it for a normal vote but have to allow amendments.

What I find telling is that the same Democrats that voted for this when the Democrats controlled Congress now voted against it. Didn't the liberals all claim when the Republicans played politics like that it was bad for the Country?

They have to hurry though those provisions expire on the 28th.
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Old 02-08-2011, 06:59 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by uscitizen View Post
Good that if did not pass. I wonder if they will combine it with tax cuts and food for starving children to get it to pass?

I found this very interesting from the OP link:
"as a group of Republicans joined a majority of Democrats in voting no."
Tea Party mostly, they are against big Government. The provisions would have passed if they had not tried to block amendments.
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Old 02-08-2011, 07:02 PM
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This a great vote, and I am glad to see Dems and Tea Party working together to beat back the neo-cons.

This is a very good thing.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2011, 07:06 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by JakeStarkey View Post
This a great vote, and I am glad to see Dems and Tea Party working together to beat back the neo-cons.

This is a very good thing.
Once again only 148 voted against it. They will redo it with amendments and it will pass. Overwhelmingly.
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Old 02-08-2011, 07:20 PM
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I am sure you are right, RGS, but the amendments will have to make some considerations to the left and the right.
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